In defense of Anduin's bones.

[Verdugo]

I don't think the "magic" of this particular relationship is intrinsic to Anduin or his bones - rather it's a curious interaction between Anduin's more or less permanent injuries from the Divine Bell incident and the power of the Light that is healing him on the same permanent basis. My take on "Before the Storm" doesn't have Anduin's bones reacting to rightness or wrongness, but rather to whether or not his emotions or decisions correspond to those aligned with the tenets of the Light. If Anduin succumbs to anger, rage, hatred or what-have-you then he distances himself from the Light - this distance interferes with the ongoing healing and causes him to feel the pain of his old wounds, whereas being in alignment with the Light strengthens the connection and the pain recedes.

This may or may not also be linked with the strange prescience the Light seems to grant some of its most attuned users, such as Velen - Anduin may feel disturbances to the vision of the Light as pain from his wounds, probably caused by the same distancing of the Light for other reasons. In this sense, the Light may be giving him a crude (and somewhat painful) form of precognition, although not one as useful as Velen's ability to actually divine possible futures.

You seriously have an unwaranted faith in Golden if you believe that.

[Aucald]

You seriously have an unwaranted faith in Golden if you believe that.

I tend to approach lore from an author-agnostic standpoint - be it Golden, Knaak, King or Stackpole I approach the content the same way wherever possible. In this case, this is how I read the information and how I felt like it connected to the canon lore that already exists. I think people put too much emphasis on specific authors and allow their perspective, enjoyment, or criticism of the work to be effected by that well and above the actual content delivered. This isn't to say I don't have authors I favor over others, but I still try not to let the author dictate my feelings about the work. Every great author lets the occasional dog out of the kennel, and even terrible authors can sometimes write the occasional great book.

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Seems a weird thing considering light users and even beings like Naarus have feeling of hatred, proud and anger but still I feel the whole shadow and light will play something with his bone or it will be just another idea that will be scraped like the crush of Kalacgos and Jaina because it was very criticized, also I feel the visions has nothing to do with anything, so far the visions from the powers of the arcane(elissande) the void and light always fail for x reason

Pride and anger aren't necessarily emotions that are by fiat antagonistic to the Light - I would argue hatred is, though; but even that would be contextual as to what is being hated (a hatred of extradimensional demons of chaos and/or the forces of the Void would probably not be received badly by the Light). We have a general understanding how the Light interacts with its practitioners from works such as "Shadow Wing" and "Rise of the Lich King," and this view of Anduin's connection to the Light dovetails nicely with those previous representations of the Light.

Elisande's "visions" don't stem from the Arcane specifically - but rather from her use of Chronomancy via the Eye of Aman'thul. We know that the Void and the Light also approach precognition in different ways - the Light showing its adherents future visions it desires as a cohesive force (and perhaps showing them other visions that run antithetical to that as a warning). The Void shows its adherents everything and claims it equally true. In the Light there is a one future path that is desired over others, and in the Void everything is equally valid whether or not it is mutually exclusive.

[Evilfish]

Well if we ever kill him, there's an idea for a drop. Morbid but hey, loot is loot.

[Zandalariprelate]

Pride and anger aren't necessarily emotions that are by fiat antagonistic to the Light - I would argue hatred is, though; but even that would be contextual as to what is being hated (a hatred of extradimensional demons of chaos and/or the forces of the Void would probably not be received badly by the Light). We have a general understanding how the Light interacts with its practitioners from works such as "Shadow Wing" and "Rise of the Lich King," and this view of Anduin's connection to the Light dovetails nicely with those previous representations of the Light.

Elisande's "visions" don't stem from the Arcane specifically - but rather from her use of Chronomancy via the Eye of Aman'thul. We know that the Void and the Light also approach precognition in different ways - the Light showing its adherents future visions it desires as a cohesive force (and perhaps showing them other visions that run antithetical to that as a warning). The Void shows its adherents everything and claims it equally true. In the Light there is a one future path that is desired over others, and in the Void everything is equally valid whether or not it is mutually exclusive.

I will quote yoda on this: “Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” So that pretty much doesn't put the light in a good "image" if those are also values for them but since the Naarus has switch from Light to Shadow for some reason we have to yet discover kinda makes sense, and it's kinda ironic because the old gods are capable of possitive emotions and care just like light beings in a twisted way for their creations as N'zoth seem to be like a idealistic leader who wants to go back to the good ol' days(Zul, Lei Shen, Garrosh and maybe Arthas will get along with him) and Xal seem to care a bit for the shadow priest pc as she has a special warning in the datamined dialogue for the next scenario with her and "let me guide your hand" in the fight against the avatar of Sargeras, maybe it's just blizzard doing the trope "gods are like mortals".

About the visions, while she used the eye of aman'thul, remember she was also using the nightwell power as well to watch those futures and even you see throw the fountain an image of her from another universe or timeline maybe the one we created in wod but still magic time seem to be related to Arcane(Titans) and Light(Naarus in the maghar scenario and Elune)

[Dellis0991]

Well considering his bones didn't tingling when he and Saa'ra did that necromancy ritual, maybe he is being set up to be fooled by the light or his faith being crushed which can open a lot of opportunities for development.

I can see him by the end of this expansion being in a state of him losing his faith in the light and he goes all out trying to become like his father in a way.

[Malikath]

Well considering his bones didn't tingling when he and Saa'ra did that necromancy ritual, maybe he is being set up to be fooled by the light or his faith being crushed which can open a lot of opportunities for development.

yeah, modern cliches that have been done to death by better writers.

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I will quote yoda on this

yoda didn't even understand what the force wanted the jedi to be, thus it created anakin.

later disney retcons be damned.

[Mardux]

Plot twist: it was never the light, only N'Zoth.

Saa'ra was a void god, so its not a huge leap.

[Aucald]

I will quote yoda on this: “Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” So that pretty much doesn't put the light in a good "image" if those are also values for them but since the Naarus has switch from Light to Shadow for some reason we have to yet discover kinda makes sense, and it's kinda ironic because the old gods are capable of possitive emotions and care just like light beings in a twisted way for their creations as N'zoth seem to be like a idealistic leader who wants to go back to the good ol' days(Zul, Lei Shen, Garrosh and maybe Arthas will get along with him) and Xal seem to care a bit for the shadow priest pc as she has a special warning in the datamined dialogue for the next scenario with her and "let me guide your hand" in the fight against the avatar of Sargeras, maybe it's just blizzard doing the trope "gods are like mortals".

About the visions, while she used the eye of aman'thul, remember she was also using the nightwell power as well to watch those futures and even you see throw the fountain an image of her from another universe or timeline maybe the one we created in wod but still magic time seem to be related to Arcane(Titans) and Light(Naarus in the maghar scenario and Elune)

I don't think the dichotomy between Light and Void is one of good vs. evil - it is more akin to order vs. chaos or more specifically axiom vs. anarchy (one defined truth against many). In this sense it's possible to be evil and use the Light (e.g. the Scarlet Crusade) and to be basically good and use the Void (e.g. Alleria and the Void Elves). I don't think the Old Gods really care for their followers or adherents specifically, but not really because of their origins or composition - care for followers or believers just aren't what the Old Gods are about. They're corruption incarnate, made for a specific purpose that has nothing to do with care for others or even for themselves. Xal'atath's exhortations to "guide your hand" are simply her attempts to usurp control over her wielder, and her modus operandi is to trade power for agency until her wielder is complete in her thrall and enslaved.

Chronomantic magic and Arcane magic have a pretty different presentations and wavelengths of energy. It may be related to the Arcane, but it is distinct enough to be its own specialty. The Eye of Aman'thul and its chronomantic energies gave the Nightborne access to Chronomancy through the Nightwell's energies. Elisande, as the one closest to the Nightwell and probably the premier user (or abuser) of its essence would be the most attuned and thus able to wield Chronomancy enough to actually divine futures.

[Zandalariprelate]

yeah, modern cliches that have been done to death by better writers.

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yoda didn't even understand what the force wanted the jedi to be, thus it created anakin.

later disney retcons be damned.

Yeah and blizzard tend to do horrible in doing common cliches, yeah better we left that option out, and yeah I just remembering the retcons in the disney era but well, it's that bad considering the lastest books that came out and how dark horses pretty much fcked a lot of things about the force

[Netherspark]

"Magic bones"?

[Hablion]

The Light and the Void and Mirror Images of Each Other. Being a Mirror Image does not make one side More Good or Evil than the Other, Both Light and Void Seem to have the same sort of agenda just different means of achieving it.

[Arrashi]

"Magic bones"?

Everytime anduin tries to do something evil (like walking on grass, or not eating his vegetables) his bones just yell "STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM YOU VIOLATED THE LAW", and confiscate his stolen goods.

[Sixnalia]

I wouldn't mind seeing his overwhelming faith get challenged.
Perhaps reveal the Naaru as a manipulator, trying to push Anduin(and Calia) in certain directions.
(Especially since it feels more and more Babylon 5)

I'd rather not see him lose faith though, but him striking a balance would be nice. Especially seeing how his faction contains both the Void Elves and Lightforged. He'd be a better symbol for unity, rather than just acceptance.

[Thage]

I mean, my knee aches like a sonofabitch when the weather's about to turn. I can give a pass on someone who suffered large-scale bone fractures/breaks getting aches and pains as the mood in the room shifts because fantasy.

[Al Gorefiend]

It's not that his bones are magic that's the issue although it's stupid and never came up for the 4 years they were broken up until now. The issue is that they serve as a sixth sense alerting him when he's about to make a wrong decision so he can continue being perfect and too pure for this sinful world and that the only consequence of his decision to confront Garrosh and having the bell dropped on him was receiving a buff that makes him even more angelic.

What exactly is wrong with Anduin being a purely goodie-two-shoes? That itself is a character flaw, and he has others as well. He's an interesting character. Having a sixth sense brought about by Pandaren magic (or Mogu.. whatever that bell's lore was) isn't too bizarre for the setting.

Besides, he's a Priest. A Holy Priest. If not the bell, Blizz would just say the Light guides his decisions or something.

And also, both Frodo and Harry Potter are written to be goodie-two-shoes can't do no wrongs. Are they bad characters too? I mean shit, Frodo was so good and pure he trusted Gollum like a total moron.

[Super Dickmann]

What exactly is wrong with Anduin being a purely goodie-two-shoes? That itself is a character flaw, and he has others as well. He's an interesting character. Having a sixth sense brought about by Pandaren magic (or Mogu.. whatever that bell's lore was) isn't too bizarre for the setting.

Besides, he's a Priest. A Holy Priest. If not the bell, Blizz would just say the Light guides his decisions or something.

Anduin being pure good is bad because he warps every other character in his proximity to bend to his viewpoint without issue, turning first the Alliance and soon the Horde into their blandest possible versions. He's narrative cancer, metastasizing over every plot he gets into contact with. Being literally incapable of making wrong decisions as a narrative device just further punctuates this.

[Al Gorefiend]

The Targaryen proof of fire thing is just a myth and Daenerys survived the fire because of dragon magic, there are lots of examples of Targeryens dying in fires and the scar of Frodo only helps to build tension and danger when there is a nazghul nearby and not to be some six sense of warning about "shit's gonna hit the fan" if it were the other way, then it would have hurt frodo everytime smeagol was nearby.

Dammit. I changed my analogy midway and forgot to change the author's name.

JK Rowling, not Tolkien. The scar refers to Harry Potter's.

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Anduin being pure good is bad because he warps every other character in his proximity to bend to his viewpoint without issue, turning first the Alliance and soon the Horde into their blandest possible versions. He's narrative cancer, metastasizing over every plot he gets into contact with. Being literally incapable of making wrong decisions as a narrative device just further punctuates this.

And yet him being a goodie two shoes is precisely why he's losing grip on the Alliance... Like I said, it's a character flaw.

[NuLogic]

Idk why they gave him magic bones. Like his priest teacher is velen why not just get visions?

[Martymark]

I read "Before the Storm".
Anduin has magic bones.
They give him precognitive "Spider Sense".
It's incredibly stupid.

[Super Dickmann]

And yet him being a goodie two shoes is precisely why he's losing grip on the Alliance... Like I said, it's a character flaw.

They purposefully went back to change Genn's dialogue to make it more servile. And the night elf plot is set for failure in the sense that the story is leading up towards the alliance and Horde hugging it out, genocide forgotten, so Tyrande's vengeance shtick will likely be talked out of her by Anduin. Much like his tactical mistakes, these are not intentional character flaws, they're consequences of poor writing. You know when Blizzard think something is a flaw because they draw attention to it with the subtlety of a freight train.