Why do people think Burning Teldrassil worked?

[Schattenlied]

Ok, every Alliance soldier ressurected by Anduin has plot armor. Alliance fodder is literaly protected by plot armor.

It was confirmed that was just an AoE heal, not a rez. Stop making shit up to try to win, it's pathetic.

And again, if Sylvanas stayed dead after jumping off ICC like she should have, or died to Malfurion like she should have, Anduin would have never been in a position to cast that AoE because the war never would have happened.

[The Stormbringer]

1. The Ancients would not be protecting the Night elves, rather they would be protecting their home. Cenarius got mad after the orcs chopped a few trees. But a fullblown assault and they only show up AFTER the attack? That is bullshit writing and you know it. The Draenei being unaware is also bullshit but that would fall under plot armor since there is no lore explanation at all(the real explaination is "that's not the story we want to tell".)

2. You got nothing but headcanon. The warframes aren't "all destroyed or whatever", they arent being used because they would utterly destroy any undead. They shoot Light based attacks that are capable of destroying legion spaceships. That is serious firepower.

Oculeth isnt doing anything to the Vindicaar. His telemancy requires a network of beacons be established. So does the Vindicaar, the difference is that the Vindicaar is a spaceship so dropping beacons from location to location is much easier. Oculeth is merely one person.

3. Legion had Velen learn to take the fight to his enemies. He stopped being a pacifist and even stopped blindly following the Light after Illidan killed Xera. You know, Argus plotline and all that. The Lightforged are literally made for war. The Warframes are made for exactly that.

Yes the Alliance not planning for the Blight at Undercity makes her plan retarded because if they did plan for it, her plan would have fallen apart. Her genius plan basically boils down to "Blight". How repetitive and predictable.

I would seriously love to talk to the writers and ask them why the Alliance wasn't prepared for her to use the Blight, especially since they had so many examples of her using it in the past.

[Darth-Piekus]

I just have to add something. Compared to the current Horde leaders Sylvannas is the most powerful but compared to most of the Alliance leaders she is pretty weak. If you count out Genn who is a simple Warrior and Mechatorque who is also a simple Technician all the other leaders of the Alliance are powerhouses. In a battle without plot armor against Malfurion, Velen, Tyrande, Alleria or Anduin the Dark Lady would lose badly as all these characters are overpowered. I can't count how many times Sylvannas should be dead but saved from plot. She could have died in the first battle for Undercity as Shattered Ice Pieces had Jaina decided to break her Iceblock. She could have died from Godfrey or after she fell from Icecrown Citadel. She could have also died from Arthas himself instantly in the Halls of Reflection. Even in the Broken Shore she could have been lazered down from these Fel Carriers just as any other character or getting speared from behind instead of Voljin. Either people like it or not Sylvannas has the biggest plot armor but plot armor doesn't last forever. So it would be nice if people stop with these delusions that Sylvannas is a creature that rivals Goku in terms of power and face reality.

[Verdugo]

I just have to add something. Compared to the current Horde leaders Sylvannas is the most powerful but compared to most of the Alliance leaders she is pretty weak. If you count out Genn who is a simple Warrior and Mechatorque who is also a simple Technician all the other leaders of the Alliance are powerhouses. In a battle without plot armor against Malfurion, Velen, Tyrande, Alleria or Anduin the Dark Lady would lose badly as all these characters are overpowered. I can't count how many times Sylvannas should be dead but saved from plot. She could have died in the first battle for Undercity as Shattered Ice Pieces had Jaina decided to break her Iceblock. She could have died from Godfrey or after she fell from Icecrown Citadel. She could have also died from Arthas himself instantly in the Halls of Reflection. Even in the Broken Shore she could have been lazered down from these Fel Carriers just as any other character or getting speared from behind instead of Voljin. Either people like it or not Sylvannas has the biggest plot armor but plot armor doesn't last forever. So it would be nice if people stop with these delusions that Sylvannas is a creature that rivals Goku in terms of power and face reality.

Yeah yeah we get it, Alliance is so awesome because writers constantly give it some self-insert superheroes.

[Evilfish]

It was confirmed that was just an AoE heal, not a rez. Stop making shit up to try to win, it's pathetic.

And again, if Sylvanas stayed dead after jumping off ICC like she should have, or died to Malfurion like she should have, Anduin would have never been in a position to cast that AoE because the war never would have happened.

And if the Alliancebois wouldn't have whined about her non-stop, Bfa would still be one of their sick little fantasy excuses to have her killed.

[HCLM]

I just have to add something. Compared to the current Horde leaders Sylvannas is the most powerful but compared to most of the Alliance leaders she is pretty weak. If you count out Genn who is a simple Warrior and Mechatorque who is also a simple Technician all the other leaders of the Alliance are powerhouses. In a battle without plot armor against Malfurion, Velen, Tyrande, Alleria or Anduin the Dark Lady would lose badly as all these characters are overpowered. I can't count how many times Sylvannas should be dead but saved from plot. She could have died in the first battle for Undercity as Shattered Ice Pieces had Jaina decided to break her Iceblock. She could have died from Godfrey or after she fell from Icecrown Citadel. She could have also died from Arthas himself instantly in the Halls of Reflection. Even in the Broken Shore she could have been lazered down from these Fel Carriers just as any other character or getting speared from behind instead of Voljin. Either people like it or not Sylvannas has the biggest plot armor but plot armor doesn't last forever. So it would be nice if people stop with these delusions that Sylvannas is a creature that rivals Goku in terms of power and face reality.

Tbh only Malfurion, Velen, and Jaina are powerhouses. Why did you even listed Anduin lawl. He casted one aoe heal but outside of that he is weak. Also Sylvanas is not weak. She is the smartest of all leaders, she can create armies of undead, and she is a banshee queen. I am sure she could go toe to toe with anyone except fot Velen, he hard counters her as priest.

[Darth-Piekus]

I would count Anduin on the powerhouse list because Light Magic can be used to kill and I am sure just as he can create a huge dome of Light that can heal then he can create a huge Dome of Light that can kill and Sylvannas has no defence against Magic. Banshee Queen or not she is as weak as a kitten against a powerful magic user. While she has an edge against any of the Horde leaders and generally any leader that doesn't have magic the moment magic comes into play she is down for the count.

These powerhouses have built up their power years now. Jaina is an Archmage with the Powers of the Thunder King added. Malfurion was taught by the best in Druidism. Anduin was taught by the best in Light Magic Velen. Tyrande is an Arch Priestess Chosen of Elune devoted a long time now. All of these characters have feats through Warcraft History that Sylvannas can't simply match either people like it or not. It is obvious in a straight battle they would have the upper hand and win in I won't say all scenarios but most of them.

[RundinO]

Do you know why her plan didn't work? Because she's basically fighting against a faction that is using cheat codes.

She tried winning using every strategic and tactical at her disposal and she would have succeded wasn't for that damn plot armor.

Having to fight a godlike being as Malfurion? Tire him out making him fight all over a battlefront basically alone only to finish him when he is exhausted -> Plot armor saves Malfurion turning Sylvanas braindead and leaving the final blow to Saurfang that, apparentely, after a life of war and death decided that killing an enemy isn't fun anymore

Trying to decimate an enemy faction to get an advantage? Destroy their main base making the survivors hostiles towards the faction that didn't help them -> First, Tyrande and the other NEs decided to not blame the Alliance. Then they pull out of their butts a ritual to become an Avatar of Vengeance and all of a sudden NEs aren't an almost extinct race anymore, making them able to sustain a brand new Warfront in the main Horde continent.

Wanting to kill the High King and his advisors during the Battle of Lordaeron? (1)Create an Azerite tank (2) Prepare a trap using your tactical advantage in streets of the city (3) Prepare to bomb the entire city while trapping the Alliance leaders in the throne room -> (1) All of a sudden Anduin is able to destroy an entire tank with a sword (2) Right when the trap with Horde troops succeded, Alleria and Mekkatorque are suddenly able to teleport inside the city, with enough troops to win the battle, without any serious explanation (Why they didn't do that before?) (3) Even with a closed room and the city literally full of gas, the blight suddendly is able to full the throne room so slowly that Jaina is able to teleport Anduin & friends back on the magical ship.

On a side we have the Horde that have to come up with real strategy and tactics to win against the Alliance, on the other side we have the faction that keeps winning, without losing any important leader, because reasons

Your reasoning makes too much sense. Go home!

[laplacedemon]

These powerhouses have built up their power years now. Jaina is an Archmage with the Powers of the Thunder King added. Malfurion was taught by the best in Druidism. Anduin was taught by the best in Light Magic Velen. Tyrande is an Arch Priestess Chosen of Elune devoted a long time now. All of these characters have feats through Warcraft History that Sylvannas can't simply match either people like it or not. It is obvious in a straight battle they would have the upper hand and win in I won't say all scenarios but most of them.

That's literally why Sylvanas gets plot armor, the Alliance leaders have to act stupid and walk into obvious traps like they did in Battle for Lordaeron or get taken down a notch like Malfurion not being able to best Sylvanas or super empowered Tyrande not roflstomping Nathanos though, otherwise we'd have no story at all.

Some of the dei ex machina should be retired or rather, should have been retired by now but no, we get more...

[Darth-Piekus]

That's literally why Sylvanas gets plot armor, the Alliance leaders have to act stupid and walk into obvious traps like they did in Battle for Lordaeron or get taken down a notch like Malfurion not being able to best Sylvanas or super empowered Tyrande not roflstomping Nathanos though, otherwise we'd have no story at all.

Some of the dei ex machina should be retired or rather, should have been retired by now but no, we get more...

Thats ironic unfortunately. The fact that they have to create shitty plot armor in order for some characters to be able to fight much superior characters when in reality they cannot. The fact that Lore has to bend over to gameplay. It's no wonder the game lost half its subscribers after WOTLK. At least back then the story was consistent.

[Verdugo]

Thats ironic unfortunately. The fact that they have to create shitty plot armor in order for some characters to be able to fight much superior characters when in reality they cannot. The fact that Lore has to bend over to gameplay. It's no wonder the game lost half its subscribers after WOTLK. At least back then the story was consistent.

Maybe Alliance should stop pulling superpowers out of its ass. Jana is especialy ridiculous, but that can be expected from self insert of terrible writers like Golden.

[Darth-Piekus]

These characters are built to be like this by literally every author and lore dev before from even the War of the Ancients till now. Everyone of those powerhouses have done crazy things.

[valis]

I would seriously love to talk to the writers and ask them why the Alliance wasn't prepared for her to use the Blight, especially since they had so many examples of her using it in the past.

Well i think because there is nothing to prepare against it available for the Alliance. Only Forsaken seem to have countermeasures (ingame at least, don't know about the novels).
Blight = Superweapon of the Forsaken, no normal counters. Alliance needs their Superweapon aka Jaina... or another overpowered Charakter (Velen next in Line?).

[The Stormbringer]

Well i think because there is nothing to prepare against it available for the Alliance. Only Forsaken seem to have countermeasures (ingame at least, don't know about the novels).
Blight = Superweapon of the Forsaken, no normal counters. Alliance needs their Superweapon aka Jaina... or another overpowered Charakter (Velen next in Line?).

How about wind from druids and shamans? Or flamethrowers + fire spells from mages and shamans? Or mass frost spells from shamans, death knights, and mages? Or, hell, some machines that suck up the goop deployed by gnomes? Lots and lots of rain and water to dilute the blight to where it was only damaging instead of deadly? There's lots of different ways they could've countered it.

[valis]

How about wind from druids and shamans? Or flamethrowers + fire spells from mages and shamans? Or mass frost spells from shamans, death knights, and mages? Or, hell, some machines that suck up the goop deployed by gnomes? Lots and lots of rain and water to dilute the blight to where it was only damaging instead of deadly? There's lots of different ways they could've countered it.

Well Jaina did what "mages could do". Ingame you either need dragons (wrathgate) or archmages (battle for undercity) to counter the Blight, so pretty "high level stuff". I would bet that if the Blight could be countered by "normal" means that the forsaken fans will be outraged...

[The Stormbringer]

Well Jaina did what "mages could do". Ingame you either need dragons (wrathgate) or archmages (battle for undercity) to counter the Blight, so pretty "high level stuff". I would bet that if the Blight could be countered by "normal" means that the forsaken fans will be outraged...

I don't mean it'd be like, one or two mages, shamans, and druids. I'm talking dozens. They had a huge ass army, don't tell me that they couldn't have had all their magic users working in tandem to counter this. Or gnomes with technology.

[laplacedemon]

Or gnomes with technology.

How about... Giant fans!

I think they don't do stuff like that because it's not "cool enough". A group of shamans casting tornadoes or whatever would make more sense and it would show that they're prepared but it's less cool than Jaina being an army on her own and juggling twenty different stuff without breaking a sweat. They just want us to go "Whaaa... That's coool"...

Being prepared is only cool if it involves outsmarting people (Sylvanas' trap) or it's coupled with another cool act (Alleria's portals).

[Minikin]

I've seen people argue that because Genn and Tyrande go to Darkshore without support from Anduin that Sylvs plan worked

But the whole point of splitting the Alliance was to negotiate peace with them separately without having to fight multiple battles and a drawn out war and required Genn being split from the nelfs

How does anyone figure this is "working" for Sylv?

didnt work. only the crazies keep making it sound like that or type up essays to justify it. two objectives to the war of thorns, one has failed and the other is also the edge of failure.
1. have a decisive victory that forces the alliance to back down: didnt work, war is still going on. when she burnt teldrassil she sabotaged her own plan. saurfang fed up by not killing malfurion and she compounded it with her fit of teenage girl dream.

2. end the alliance: well we all know due to gameplay reasons that will never happen. so she was setup for failure from the start.

- - - Updated - - -

Point out to Sylvanas in that cinematic please... It's confirmed that Sylvanas had nothing to do with Wrathgate, in Chronicles volume 3.

yea they might possibly change that, who knows whats canon at this point
https://blizzardwatch.com/2018/11/12...red-wrathgate/

[Destinas]

If the point was to "destroy life" then it partially worked - a huge tree and a ton of lives are life itself, which Sylvanas destroyed.

If the point was to break the hope/spirit of the Alliance, then it didn't work, because we see them working together more (with even Night elven troops in Kul tiras and Alliance War Campaigns). Despite Anduin not sending troops from Stormwind in 8.1 to Darkshore, the Alliance (in the form of players) are going to be quite present in the Warfront.

If the point was to break the spirit of the Night Elves in particular, it worked for a moment, then it really didn't. Sure, some of them questioned Elune directly afterward, but considering the Alliance gets Night Warriors in the next patch, that seems to reinvigorate the Night Elves' faith in their goddess. As mentioned before, we see Night Elf troops in Kul Tiras (like in the island in northwestern Drustvar), as part of the 7th Legion (which the player recruits), in the War Campaign (led by Shandris), and then they lead the effort against the Forsaken in Darkshore again. A small number do wind up becoming Forsaken themselves, feeling vengeance against Elune, however.

[Minikin]

Do you know why her plan didn't work? Because she's basically fighting against a faction that is using cheat codes.

She tried winning using every strategic and tactical at her disposal and she would have succeded wasn't for that damn plot armor.

Having to fight a godlike being as Malfurion? Tire him out making him fight all over a battlefront basically alone only to finish him when he is exhausted -> Plot armor saves Malfurion turning Sylvanas braindead and leaving the final blow to Saurfang that, apparentely, after a life of war and death decided that killing an enemy isn't fun anymore

Trying to decimate an enemy faction to get an advantage? Destroy their main base making the survivors hostiles towards the faction that didn't help them -> First, Tyrande and the other NEs decided to not blame the Alliance. Then they pull out of their butts a ritual to become an Avatar of Vengeance and all of a sudden NEs aren't an almost extinct race anymore, making them able to sustain a brand new Warfront in the main Horde continent.

Wanting to kill the High King and his advisors during the Battle of Lordaeron? (1)Create an Azerite tank (2) Prepare a trap using your tactical advantage in streets of the city (3) Prepare to bomb the entire city while trapping the Alliance leaders in the throne room -> (1) All of a sudden Anduin is able to destroy an entire tank with a sword (2) Right when the trap with Horde troops succeded, Alleria and Mekkatorque are suddenly able to teleport inside the city, with enough troops to win the battle, without any serious explanation (Why they didn't do that before?) (3) Even with a closed room and the city literally full of gas, the blight suddendly is able to full the throne room so slowly that Jaina is able to teleport Anduin & friends back on the magical ship.

On a side we have the Horde that have to come up with real strategy and tactics to win against the Alliance, on the other side we have the faction that keeps winning, without losing any important leader, because reasons

thats a fairly biased view. both sides have plot armor to an extent because if they didnt this expansion wouldnt have worked at all. certain elements have to be embelished on both sides to make this useless faction war plot work.

for example:
1. the horde demolishers at darkshore. take a flight from teldrassil to darkshore. then try to visualize a demolisher projectile making that distance. it cant.

2. the vindicaar. was benched just to make this plot work. you would have had a lot more than jaina's ship to complain about if you had a spaceship blasting you, mass teleporting troops and dropping iron man suits for peasants and farmers. https://www.polygon.com/interviews/2...azeroth-legion

3. you mention the throne room. 4 alliance leaders walk in. nearly all 4 of them are experts at their art. a known powerful priest, an archmage, a well known hunter and a brawler. the priest knows the person they are interacting with has burnt down a whole city of innocents at this point. the archmage already has had her own city blown to bits by a previous warchief. the hunter knows the warchief is her sister and is acutely aware of how skilled of a tactician and archer she is. the brawler has dueled her before and lost a son to her. What do they do? They talk. Any sane person would have had enough reason to attack her on sight. But nope. They do the mario boss thing of explaining their tactic while she gets her trap card ready.

we have enough biased goofs on these forums. The age of "muh hurdz" and "muh alliaz" ended at 9. There is no reason and no point to be faction biased in this game when both sides stories are easily accessible with rampant retcons and fluid lore.

edit: the bolded part is the most important part of the post.