Titanforging is here to stay

[cuafpr]

Don't care.. if i get a WF/TF piece awesome if i don't .. awesome.

[Dragtox]

i start to think in next expansion we gona get a slot machine on a slot machine on a slot machine becus we cant make gamble any worse..

[Re4leader1]

On paper in a perfect scenario, maybe. In reality? Just as many people hate it, and they undoubtedly have lost subs over it due to people getting sick of the treadmill grind with no end... The point of a goal is to eventually get there.

I dont even think on paper, its sounds as boring and grindy as it is in reality. I just do not understand how they thought this system would work. They couldnt even balance lengendies! And there was like 1/20 the amount of azerite traits we have now. And their fix is to just keep adding azerite traits. Well looks like were going to see more balance issues per patch then ever in the history of warcraft.

[Nerovar]

The problem with titanforging is... At some time during BfA (currently I don't play) I played at ~ 1,8k RBG rating and my highest item was a 375 cloak I got from the weekly chest as a reward for the things I actually did in the game. A few days later I got another 375 item but this time it was from a skirmish game (the base item level is 325 I believe). It's just a shitty feeling and it's quite simple to explain if you think about it for second. When you attach value in form of item level to a certain rating/difficulty, you should not expect to get that value with exceedingly less effort. By going the TF route and giving people elite/mythic level gear for completing really easy content (in comparison), you lead this whole principle ad absurdum and therefor devalue items and the effort of obtaining them. Yes, there was RNG before but RNG in e.g. classic didn't give you items you didn't earn (and by earn I mean completing the difficulty that is required for said item). The power of items should always be linked to the effort that went into obtaining that item. Getting stuff you haven't earned... That shit has no place in a video game.

[RobertoCarlos]

do you guys not have lfr?

well played.....well....played

[Playintrafic]

Titanforge gives people a reason to keep playing and redo content. Which equals more played time which equals money to investors and stock brokers. So its definently not going anywhere. Dont matter if it's fair or fun its money and that's what they want.

So did badges and rep from dungeons and raids.

[miwonehema]

I mention actual logs, with consistent results, and you respond with a sim of yours on some boots? It’s like you didn’t read anything I wrote. But the thing is, I guess you don’t want to read it, so you won’t read it.

nah, I read it. Anecdotal evidence of how someone beat you in a fight huh. because you and that guy didn't die and managed a 100% uptime and did perfect execution on a fight

sure you did.

[Schattenlied]

So did badges and rep from dungeons and raids.

But those didn't produce an infinite RNG treadmill where you couldn't ever complete the end goal!

[NtflxnChill]

Believe it or not, people complained about the badge system on forums and here everyday, just like they do about TF now.

[huth]

Great way out of an argument you can’t win. Decide it’s based on a false premise after a failed attempt to focus on something totally out of context.

Erm, good for you I suppose ?

It's not like you made any actual counter argument. Just "no, you wrong!".

Skill still plays a bigger role than luck. The terrible players won't be able to get as far in M+ as the good ones, and WF procs are not common enough to get you significantly above the appropriate iLvl for your content.

For that matter, Weekly chest always results in WF/TF items due to how the system works, even if the reward is only baseline iLvl.

[Beefkow]

Do you even play this game?
I farmed for the Owl trinket from sisters every opportunity I got, killing them multiple times a week just so i could spend all my bonus rolls there. Then we had the whole Arcano debackle, the bear trinket for hunters from EN that was farmed well into the 3rd tier of Legion, The AoE rockets trinket from th commanders that was BiS for AoE even if it was 40 ilvl lower .... . Trinkets where the most absurd outliers of Legion, and no, it wasn't because they could TF as most didn't scale much, it was because their base level effect was so powerful.

You attacks have a chance to give you X stat for X seconds.

Not exactly unique or creative in my opinion imao.

Though the trinkets from SoO, class trinkets from ARCH, and nighthold were definitely gamebreaking or interesting to say the least.

[adamzz]

It's absolutely important what gear a casual gets. If you don'T care the Problem lies with you

For the upper few % it mostly doesn't matter, they get all the loot they want. But for those people gear is irrelevant because they don't need it to play the game. These people who get all the gear they want play with each other, they go for cutting edge. That's all fine.

But for the greatest part of the playerbase gear matters a lot. It matters how much gear the upper few % have and it matters how much the last scrub on the skillmeters have because ilvl is what dictates you how to play the game. Ever tried to search a guild with 350 ilvl? Of course not because you will say " damn you son 360 is easy achievable by now everyone should have at least that ilvl".

Guess why everyone has 360? because everybody gets gear from everywhere by rng and welfare. That's why every m+ run from 1 up to +9 is so toxic. And that is exactly the point why everybody should be concerned what loot the others have. Because every other one who goot lucky rng sets the requirement for group content higher. Because that idiot didn't earn the reward and got a free ticket to more difficult content. There the people see that this guy has no clue what he's doing so the requirements rise again.

That way most of the playerbase doesn't learn how to play. You don't go into a difficulty level appropriate to your skill because ilvl dictates that you do easier stuff. There you get rng tf and the circle continues.

The only people who shouldn't care what gear others get are the upper few % because for them it doesn't matter. For everybody else it is very important what gear the others have because you should all play together and learn together...instead the skill levels are widely spread and you don't get to play with people on your level...which results into these bad that nobody likes.

If you don't care what gear casuals have you probably didn't fully understand the system or it's flaws.

Yea no. It doesn't matter at all what gear anybody else has. Only casuals cry about other peoples gear. Do play worse because casual#45 got a 395 with socket from a +2 key? No you do not.

Luck on drops doesn't matter when doing M+ with pugs. A 10+ group would require 370 ilvl at a minimum even without TF. What matters for M+ is what keys you have completed on time. I don't care if you have 390 equipped, if you haven't even completed FH+10 on time I wouldn't invite you to any FH key above 10. No, raider.io score doesn't matter. I would take a player with 375 ilvl and 1k score that has completed my key on time multiple weeks over a player with 1.5k score that has only completed the key once on the easiest week.

Same for raids, I would rather invite a 360 player with aotc and multiple clears over a 390 player with no experience.

You also severely overestimate TF procs.. The difference between two players doing the same content will be 5 ilvls at most and 5 ilvls doesn't mean shit. Looking at two players one 365 with no TFs and one 370 with some TFs I would always pick the player with the most experience no exceptions. Experience trumps gear in all cases.

Gear doesn't dictate what difficulty you can do, experience does. The reason you think +9 and lower are toxic is because you don't join the appropriate groups. Pugging anything is toxic if you join groups that accept anyone. I geared my latest alt by doing low keys and very few groups where toxic, you can't avoid toxicity unless you play full premade. I simply didn't join the groups where the leader had no experience for that key and all was smooth. Fresh 120 to 360ilvl in a few days.

If you don't have the experience to join good groups then the problem is still you not TF.. If you don't have the experience needed for a certain key then work your way up just like everyone else did.

The way you talk leads me to believe that you are that "last scrub on the skillmeter".

[Wishblade]

Alright. Never had much issue with the system.

[StayTuned]

This was a lie the elitists told themselves to make themselves feel better about their narcissism.

In reality, almost no one gives a damn, and certainly they aren't kept playing the game because of gear other people have, but they do not (and will not).

We had people on zuluhed Germany standing with their top tier gear on the bridge in IF with anti afk bots just to show off 24/7.

It made me giggle

[Jinzuru]

We had people on zuluhed Germany standing with their top tier gear on the bridge in IF with anti afk bots just to show off 24/7.

It made me giggle

Sounds amazing.

[swatsonqt]

Only casuals cry about other peoples gear.

you do realize that "casuals" make the greatest part of the playerbase?^^
That's like admitting that for most people the system sucks and they are complaining about it... but thanks for pointing out that i am right.

For the rest of all things that you said: sorry to inform you but you're still plain wrong. Yeah everything works fine if you belong to the good players that are able to spend a fuckton of time ingame.

For everybody else - as you mentioned for me, thanks again - it still sucks and is a problem.

And you sir, highly overestimate the % of players that look for experience. The majority looks at the ilvl and that's it. You're not looking at the whole thing my friend.

Of course it's easy to gear an alt up, of course it's easy to rise in keystone lvls - if you have the time and contacts and are generally better then others. But that's maybe you as one in the upper few%. For everybody else it sucks and they cry about it - again thanks for pointing out that i am right, nice to have a conversation like that - and that'S the greatest part of the playerbase.

If the greatest part of the playerbase hates the system, how can the system overall work out good? Yeah right, because you don't have a problem with it... maybe take a look further than what you see on our desktop buddy...

[adamzz]

you do realize that "casuals" make the greatest part of the playerbase?^^
That's like admitting that for most people the system sucks and they are complaining about it... but thanks for pointing out that i am right.

For the rest of all things that you said: sorry to inform you but you're still plain wrong. Yeah everything works fine if you belong to the good players that are able to spend a fuckton of time ingame.

For everybody else - as you mentioned for me, thanks again - it still sucks and is a problem.

And you sir, highly overestimate the % of players that look for experience. The majority looks at the ilvl and that's it. You're not looking at the whole thing my friend.

Of course it's easy to gear an alt up, of course it's easy to rise in keystone lvls - if you have the time and contacts and are generally better then others. But that's maybe you as one in the upper few%. For everybody else it sucks and they cry about it - again thanks for pointing out that i am right, nice to have a conversation like that - and that'S the greatest part of the playerbase.

If the greatest part of the playerbase hates the system, how can the system overall work out good? Yeah right, because you don't have a problem with it... maybe take a look further than what you see on our desktop buddy...

You seem to be under the impression that the system is bad because you and other casuals get mad because someone got one lucky 395 item. Sorry to say but that's not how it works. It doesn't matter what a vocal minority thinks.

You also seem to think that "only casuals cry about other players gear" also means "all casuals cry about other players gear". That's not true either. You are a vocal minority that cries about nothing.

[slime]

There is nothing people do not complain about.

If there was nothing to complain about.... They would complain about that.

[swatsonqt]

You seem to be under the impression that the system is bad because you and other casuals get mad because someone got one lucky 395 item. Sorry to say but that's not how it works. It doesn't matter what a vocal minority thinks.

You also seem to think that "only casuals cry about other players gear" also means "all casuals cry about other players gear". That's not true either. You are a vocal minority that cries about nothing.

Are you stupid or something like that? slow thinking anything in that direction?^^

It's not even a minority that claims titanforging to be a bad system? And i am not mad because someone else got something good. I am mad because thy system inflates the gear to a point where the overall experience for everybody is gutted.

Buuut i guess that all doesn't matter because the vocal minority that you present (better people) clearly is right and other vocal minorities (let's assume that i am the minority here and not the speaking voice for dunno...most people i guess because the general pattern seems to be that the system sucks) opinion is simply false because ... dunno, because you said so i guess?^^

[adamzz]

Are you stupid or something like that? slow thinking anything in that direction?^^

It's not even a minority that claims titanforging to be a bad system? And i am not mad because someone else got something good. I am mad because thy system inflates the gear to a point where the overall experience for everybody is gutted.

Buuut i guess that all doesn't matter because the vocal minority that you present (better people) clearly is right and other vocal minorities (let's assume that i am the minority here and not the speaking voice for dunno...most people i guess because the general pattern seems to be that the system sucks) opinion is simply false because ... dunno, because you said so i guess?^^

I haven't said that I'm part of the majority, nice strawman there. The majority of players simply do not care. Nothing would change for PvE content even if they removed TF.. Titanforging does not inflate ilevels as much as you seem to think. Without TF players would only drop a couple of ilvls. Going from 370 to 368 doesn't matter at all.

Even without TF people would still require other players to have a similar or higher ilvl to their own and people would still require a high raider.io score for higher keys. The ilvl req for raids wouldn't change either. The good HC pugs would still require 365-370 ilvl and would still require AOTC.

So let's say they remove TF, let's assume you are correct and that TF inflates ilvl by a lot. Now you and all other casuals sit at 350 ilvl, all low key groups require 350-360+ while 10 and over keys require 370+. So what is the difference? You will still have a problem joining groups, heck it's even going to be harder for you to join groups because now the difference between someone that has done 100 +10 keys and someone that only do it weekly is huge.

Oh, you won't go down to 350 ilvl if TF goes away? No shit, because TF doesn't inflate ilvl by that much as I've said several times already. If you are at 370 ilvl right now, if TF goes away you will at most go down to like 365 but you will probably drop less than that.