Titanforging is here to stay

[Tyze]

You don't know shit what playerbase does. Only a fraction even visits forums. Blizzard has actual global data about players behaviour.

I know what my friends, guildies and players I met in-game says.

[Zensunni]

Classic, where you run dungeons and raids over and over again for a chance of a different outcome, just like slot machines.

Classic - where you run dungeons and raids and get absolutely nothing at all.

Classic - where you run BWL and then realize that your blue mp5 gear is better than T2.

Lol all these morons that think classic is the answer rofl. None of them played it.

[Deleted]

It is good for the longevity of the game.... as long as there are people to play it
There are propably many other ways to increase longevity but if people don't like it, they will stop playing. Is that better? We have to wait and see how it turns out for them.

[M1r4g3]

Classic - where you run dungeons and raids and get absolutely nothing at all.

Classic - where you run BWL and then realize that your blue mp5 gear is better than T2.

Lol all these morons that think classic is the answer rofl. None of them played it.

Yeah sounds terrible, who would want usable gear thats spread all over the place...

It is good for the longevity of the game.... as long as there are people to play it
There are propably many other ways to increase longevity but if people don't like it, they will stop playing. Is that better? We have to wait and see how it turns out for them.

Can clearly see that considering the sub count has never been higher.

/s

[Echocho]

Running a raid boss 25 times waiting for your piece to drop, i.e. old school WoW, was just a much a slot machine/gambling system as this. I'm sorry but that's really inarguable. "Pull the raid boss lever and see if you win the prize you seek."

The difference is that with the old system you'd eventually get your item except for a few exceptions, I remember never getting the bracers I wanted in T5 for example.
With the new system you'll never get the item you want except on extremely rare occasions so why even try? Titanforging discourages gear progression, rare drops encourages it.

Let's say they applied this same system to mount farming people would loose their shit. The Lich King still had a 0.72% chance to drop a mount but it could be any mount from a pool of 100 mounts even the ones you already have.

[Sorshen]

Blizzard doubling down on stupid. What else is new?

[Synthium]

At the end of Nighthold, I had 7 mythic Gul'dan kills and my average item level was 909. Meanwhile my friend who didn't even kill Skorpyron on mythic (he was 10/10HC) had average item level 908. So same gear for the entire tier of difference. And he wasn't the only one who had gear that was pretty much the same as I had. Please stop telling tales of how it's like 1 guy on server that gets lucky, this entire system awards ridiculous gear to people who did nothing to earn it in game, they won the slot machine and that's it.

Also, the titanforge cap for mythic gear is ridiculously low. People that do normal Uldir can go from 355-395, while people who do mythic Uldir can go from 385-395. So it spans 40 item levels for normal raiders and only 10 item levels for mythic raiders. You can use your fancy statistical data to say that mythic raiders will on average be better geared, but not nearly as much better geared as they should be given what it takes to clear the entire raid on mythic versus what it takes to do it on normal.

[Kathranis]

I think they just need to add a currency that you can use to manually Warforge and Titanforge a piece of gear.

[Deleted]

The thing that really makes it weird for me is... they are one of the biggest gaming companies right? They have a lot of money right? They should have one of the best designers in the industry.. and all they seem to consider is RNG or... no RNG? Seriously? No other ideas? No other more complex complementary systems? They just go with the most lazy, simple and cheap way to get the results. Doesn't matter how people feel about it.

[Azerate]

Titanforging system definitely has many flaws, but it also has many positive aspects and definitely makes you feel good once you get that lucky upgrade. I could live without it, but I don't really mind it being there. It's also been very limited in BfA, which is okay. Maybe they could completely remove the possibility of weapon warforging, but that's the only thing I would really want from the system.

Claiming that TF/WF is the end of wow and the worst thing ever is overblowing the proportions of the issue, as many people love to do.

[Alphatorg]

At the end of Nighthold, I had 7 mythic Gul'dan kills and my average item level was 909. Meanwhile my friend who didn't even kill Skorpyron on mythic (he was 10/10HC) had average item level 908. So same gear for the entire tier of difference. And he wasn't the only one who had gear that was pretty much the same as I had. Please stop telling tales of how it's like 1 guy on server that gets lucky, this entire system awards ridiculous gear to people who did nothing to earn it in game, they won the slot machine and that's it.

Also, the titanforge cap for mythic gear is ridiculously low. People that do normal Uldir can go from 355-395, while people who do mythic Uldir can go from 385-395. So it spans 40 item levels for normal raiders and only 10 item levels for mythic raiders. You can use your fancy statistical data to say that mythic raiders will on average be better geared, but not nearly as much better geared as they should be given what it takes to clear the entire raid on mythic versus what it takes to do it on normal.

Leaving aside that you're straight up lying about your ilvl example.

Do you think nothing has change about wf/tf chances between Guldan and now?

[Thetruth1400]

Yep, sounds like slot machine/gambling system to me. Can't wait for that next dopamine high.

Agreed. Also makes it so any of the non titanforged pieces feel like less of an upgrade since you know it isn't the "best." Sure, you're happy that you won $10 on a spin of the slot machine, but nowhere near as happy as if you had won the $1,000,000 spin.



To further go into their comment of "a guild progressing through a raid zone over the course of a couple of months could reach a point where they were fully equipped with gear from that tier, before having finished the zone." If that's the case, it's poor design on Blizzard's part that that happens, not that gear needs to titanforge to compensate. You can't front load your raid with the BiS items and then wonder why they don't feel like completing the rest of the raid.

Likewise, "If you were stuck on Sha of Fear, there was no real expectation that your group would get any stronger week over week to help you overcome that hurdle." I guess the game is just different than it used to be where back in the day the expectation was the players will learn the fights / mechanics or get gear from earlier in the raid, not that Blizzard would step in and put a system in place to randomly grant higher ilvl gear. It's extremely unlikely that the entire raid is fully geared prior to that boss and the only thing holding them back is gear.

[crono14]

Which kinda is my point. TF is as much gambling as loot is. If you think TF is gambling, then loot is. Mechanically it's the same thing, dice roll out of your control. I personally wouldn't say it's gambling, gambling is more about real money in my eyes, which you seem to agree. I also dislike micro-transaction that is a dice roll because it's gambling in my eyes. However a game mechanic that doesn't rely on money and uses dice roll is not gambling. So TF isn't gambling imo.

When it comes to D2 tho you have the same thing there as TF, but with waaaay less favorable odds. Not only do you need to work for getting an item you want, but you also need it to roll the good stats on them cause those could vary in values, and it wasn't insignificant either.

Gambling currently is a big topic within games and very often synonymous with something bad. So if it's a dice roll mechanic you don't enjoy, it's gambling. If it's something you enjoy, it's not. But instead of harping about this in circles.

What exactly is it with TF that makes it gambling compared to loot or D2 drops for that matter? I honestly can't see it... dice roll for the item, dice roll for stats. Granted in vanilla it's a dice roll for the item and that's where it ends. Still a dice roll which makes them the same.

I mean you are getting into an entirely different topic at this point. If you were able to farm for an item and it dropped 100% of the time the first time, well then there is not reason to really replay the game on the majority. The players get bored, everyone quits, the game makes no money and it dies. Having to farm for loot or time gate things with RNG is a business decision, and nothing more. The game relies on subscriptions, and gacha games rely on people gambling and being addicted as they are predatory in that way. In the past for WoW at least, I actually enjoyed playing the game and taking the journey to get the gear.

Gameplay was fun, playing my class was fun, gear was also more fun(set pieces and cool items). BFA has all the problems it has, and more people are simply bored, items are not fun, and most classes are not fun to play. So items, gameplay, raiding, and a lot of other things don't feel fun anymore. My point is, WoW was able to mask the fact I am having to gamble/farm for items better. Even PoE which is F2P, is gambling but I can also buy the damn item I want in game with currency through trading. But that game is also fun to play and farm in, so really you are gambling with your time, which you can say you do that with almost everything in your life.

Most people are arguing just to argue, but many aspects of life have some sort of inherent gambling/random aspect to them. Sure boss loot RNG is gambling, and then TF is gambling on top of that. We can all agree on that. The only gamble there is time, where gacha games rely on money to pull that slot machine every time.

- - - Updated - - -

If you don't fall for these kinds of practises, then maby you are not the target audience for the titanforge system? or even the game in general.

You're right, I'm not the target audience for dumb shit like titan forging. I quit the game over a month ago, because the game is no longer fun for many other reasons than Titanforging. It's only one of the many problems many people have with the game. I doubt many people quit over titan forging, as they would have quit long ago, not just now.

[Ryzek]

I'm fine with this. I was never the type that had to get BIS. If a piece of gear drops and it Titanforges cool, if not and its still an upgrade that is fine too.

[Babadoo]

Are you sure you're mad at titanforging for not giving you all 395 with sockets and 3rd stats, or are you mad at yourself for running over 200 +10+s?

Both. Some guy can run 10 mythics and get better loot than a guy who did 100. Stupid system. Bring back badges or valor points.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

so thunderforge +6 is fine but warforged +10 is bad... alright

Unless ofc you are not a mythic raider and you dont get 385 baseline, which that again means you probably only have one or two pieces that even come close to mythic raiding, while as mythic raider you got 385 pretty much in every slot excluding maybe an unlucky slot or a special trinket.

But we all know who always complains about titanforging, special snowflakes that dont like it, that bobby in lfr got an item with a close-ish ilvl as mr. 1/8 "mythic" raider.

MoP/WoD style +6 iLvl TFing is not optimal, but compared to the Legion/BFA style, it's the lesser of two evils. If they keep the BFA TF cap at 10 iLvls above Mythic baseline like it is now, I will consider that a small win, but considering it was 25 above Mythic baseline for most of Legion, I have my doubts.

[Babadoo]

LOL, jealousy to the max. You're paying too much attention to what other people have. There is no system in the universe that will make jealousy go away.

I'm not defending titanforging. I also don't like it. But right now it's been so infrequent that I'm mostly ignoring it. If I see somebody with higher ilvl than me I just assume they play more than I do, and it's probably true. I haven't met any of these "incredibly common" 390 geared players you talk about. The average ilvl of the top world first guilds right now is 385. Being above 386 is really uncommon.

It's not jealousy... Jesus have a bit of common sense. It's about Ilvl inflation. When the ilvl is inflated and you have 0 luck with loot suddenly a lot of people will be 5 or 10 ilvl higher than you even though you play same amount. Guess who will get invited into groups and who will be constantly declined. Yes the unlucky guy. I don't care about other people's loot I care that other people are so insanely lucky and because of that it's harder to get into mythic groups or raids.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Atleast lessen it. I had no problem with thunderforging where it was like 10+ Il maximum. Super titanforging and random sockets doesn't feel rewarding, it feels like a slot machine within a slot machine.

[Faesroll]

Titanforging is fine, but it does need a cap or some sort, like they did with weapons.

340< gear, however unlikely it is, should not be able to upgrade to 395.

[prwraith]

I hate the titanforge system so much. It's the most blatantly obvious gear treadmill addon with no actual content, ever implemented.