do u support the death penalty?

[schwarzkopf]

Only when 100% proven guilty by evidence. (Like a videorecording of the actual crime)

So - 90% proven guilty by evidence then

[Shakari]

Not to the criminal... the criminal isn't around.

Punishment doesn't exist if they aren't there.

thats twisted logic lol .... but using your logic the punishment is losing your life so you get no more experience of it.

not about what happens after death.

[Paperfox]

Well, we know there is nothing for us after death - and sure the family, society all get punished by the death. But it certainly isn't a punishment.

Just curious, how do you know for sure?

[Aggrophobic]

No. Civilized countries have moved away from that for a reason.

[Freighter]

No. Civilized countries have moved away from that for a reason.

So USA, Japan and Singapore aren't civilized countries? You have a weird definition of civilized countries.

[schwarzkopf]

but using your logic the punishment is losing your life so you get no more experience of it.

The penalty is losing your life (an imposed cost to you for doing something) - a penalty can be imposed on anything (even a soccer team).

A punishment requires awareness.

Many people are confusing the punishment of being on death row with the death itself which is not a punishment.

Anyway - enough trying to explain basic logic, I'm moving on.

[Kumorii]

In clear cases where the criminal is caught during the act or the evidence is enough to have 0 doubts, like videos etc, I wouldn't have an issue with it.
For example I don't mind that the guy who shot up the synagogue recently gets it.

[Shakari]

Nothing convoluted at all, I'm sorry that something so simple is something you can't understand.

How can anything be a punishment if the target isn't aware of it.

If I steal a car and the police just secretly pretend to put me in jail, but never tell me about it ... is that a punishment ?

You analogies really ain't working ..... its almost painful.

and punishment doen't have to physically last years ... most people want to live ... and its also why we say soldiers killed in combat give the greatest sacrifice.

If you can't see the death sentence as the ultimate punishment or greatest sacrifice then you really have no appreciation of just how valuable life is.

[schwarzkopf]

So USA, Japan and Singapore aren't civilized?

Singapore is an authoritarian state.
Japan is historically a feudal/anarchic state - but is moving away from it.
USA - not really civilised according to current international norms (health care, gun violence, right to education, prison population).

[Tavin]

Cause saying who deserves to live and die in a court room is so much different from being a murderer. If people want to keep telling themselves that to make them feel better, then by all means.

[Protean]

Absolutely. Some people don't deserve to live. And if that doesn't work, good citizens shouldn't pay to keep them alive.

And who do you trust to judge the worth of another man?

I guess you're fine with good citizens paying more to kill someone, than keep them alive?

[Granyala]

I am against it for one very simple reason:

Our justice system is not infallible. It is run by humans and humans make mistakes.
You cannot undo capital punishment.

I rather have 10000 incarcerated serial killers to feed than killing one innocent.

[Deleted]

So - 90% proven guilty by evidence then

You saying a HD recording of someone shooting someone else in the face is 90% proof? Silly me I forgot all the video editors, grime and makeup experts active in organized crime.

Btw has anyone told you yet those mission impossible masks aren't real yet?

[AeneasBK]

A very tough one for me and a thread i dont really like to answer

You see Iam English and ive seen what miscarriage of Justice can do and the innocent people who went to the gallows but on the other hand i see the most hideous scumbags who should be hung drawn and quartered for the crimes they committed.

Vengeance and Justice is two very powerful emotions and its something i hope to never experience!

I lol'd. Good one

[Shakari]

The penalty is losing your life (an imposed cost to you for doing something) - a penalty can be imposed on anything (even a soccer team).

A punishment requires awareness.

Many people are confusing the punishment of being on death row with the death itself which is not a punishment.

Anyway - enough trying to explain basic logic, I'm moving on.

talk about convoluted logic ... killing the person is a punishment end of story, there is no requirement for awareness afterwards, Killing you is the punishment that's it, awareness ain't needed after it, and the person is well aware of it before, so how you can twist logic into anything else I have no idea.

you do need to brush up with that basic logic ... as there isn't much being used in your comments.

[Necroxis]

No, and not even because I find the idea of executing people inhumane and kind of antithetical to the idea of civilized society. Its because it's far more a punishment to imprison somebody for life, when they have literally no possibility for parole, instead of just killing them and giving them an out.

Also last time I looked into it (Was nearly a decade ago for a HS paper about it so this could have changed) but I think executing somebody is still more expensive than giving them life imprisonment. And in the US there has been a bit of a controversy about certain drugs used, where they wouldn't kill the person and instead just end up doing immense harm to them but keeping them alive. Which, at that point, is almost akin to torture in my opinion. Which I am unequivocally opposed to on every level.

[Tsar Bomba]

If you get the death penalty, you experience no punishment.

Yes, your arguments are sane and logical. Child's play for "The One Sane Man". Trivial you might say.

[Necroxis]

No. It's just the stupidity of how the system is run.

Well either way the point about the cost was only the icing on the cake for me. I still disagree with it on other grounds.

I'm not sure what the picture is supposed to mean though. Are you saying executioners are just screwing up, are the drugs not correct, or what?

[derpkitteh]

nope.

i fear for what kind of afterlife we may or may not be sending them to.

prove to me nothing exists there, and maybe i'd support it. idk though, the idea of a life ending is very unpleasant.

[Necroxis]

Where did you see any drugs in the picture? It's a captive bolt pistol. It's what we should be using. It's how we slaughter livestock.

Oh I see what you mean.

In that case, no, I don't think we should be killing people with items that I also dislike being used on animals. I mean even if you somehow found the most humane way to do it I'd still probably be opposed to it on other grounds.