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  1. #1041
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    Eh, i know - all TCG have the same issues; it's baffling for me how them being a material object makes all the difference for parents. It's very likely to find a kid crying to his parents for more packs and they saying "no, we bought X already, time to go home. Maybe if you're good next week" or similar things.
    The mechanism behind them is very similar to lootboxes (not a guaranteed rewards with rarity tiers) but the fact that cards are literally something physical is more a deterrent than the price itself (or better, the fact that's it just easier for tech illiterate parents to give a value to them and see that there's a limit in purchasing).
    Plus, they have a definite money value depending on the card, though it's not "official".

    Instead lootboxes are totally out of control with kids spending money all the way without parent supervision, like giving a kind 1000$ and send him into a toy shop.
    lootboxes are endless

  2. #1042
    Quote Originally Posted by Polly3685 View Post
    I think you would be hard pressed to find someone who likes MTX or thinks they are good for the gaming industry. The reason people are arguing is because they are tired of shitty parents getting a pass and people thinking the government should solve the problems.
    I wouldn't say good in an objective matter since they can be handled poorly. I however don't mind them as much as others and in some games I absolutely love them.

    Overwatch is a good example. Loot boxes and mtx there are only for cosmetics. What that do is that it gives me new maps and heroes for free while they earn money on mtx.if mtx weren't in that game you would have to buy new heroes or maps in expansions or DLC since new content costs money. So far I've gotten so much value from just 40 bucks without having to spend one dime on new content.

    It's ofc a selfish view, but I can't deny it works out for me.
    I have nothing against mtx if only for cosmetics and depending what benefits it gives to all players by having them introduced.
    Last edited by Kumorii; 2019-07-24 at 09:46 AM.

  3. #1043
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    As long as they can be totally ignored, I don't mind them. But I've never said I love, or even like them. I'm not a fan, but I'm also not going to get my knickers in a twist if a game has them but can still be enjoyed without them.
    Ideally, the game developer is going to balance the game AROUND THE FUCKING LOOTBOXES, in order to motivate you to actually buy them. They don't like the fact that you don't need them and don't buy them, so they will make the game harder in order to MAKE YOU BUY THEM.

  4. #1044
    Quote Originally Posted by Sygmar View Post
    Ideally, the game developer is going to balance the game AROUND THE FUCKING LOOTBOXES, in order to motivate you to actually buy them. They don't like the fact that you don't need them and don't buy them, so they will make the game harder in order to MAKE YOU BUY THEM.
    And if they do that in a game, I won't buy it. Again, as long as they can be totally ignored (like in AC:Od) I have no major problems with them. Not a fan, but they're also not obtrusive and don't impact gameplay in a meaningful way.

  5. #1045
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    And if they do that in a game, I won't buy it. Again, as long as they can be totally ignored (like in AC:Od) I have no major problems with them. Not a fan, but they're also not obtrusive and don't impact gameplay in a meaningful way.
    Dude, they don't care you and a handful of people don't buy them. They will push it anyway because there will be plenty of idiots who will buy them anyway, and this ruins the industry for everyone else.

  6. #1046
    Quote Originally Posted by Sygmar View Post
    Dude, they don't care you and a handful of people don't buy them. They will push it anyway because there will be plenty of idiots who will buy them anyway, and this ruins the industry for everyone else.
    And once they start pushing games like that, I'll stop buying them. I can't control the spending of others, only my own.

  7. #1047
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    Now actually look into why that is.

    Ill give you a hint its because of MTX's in a game that is exclusively on PC.



    Tell that to God of War, Spiderman,Red Dead, Anything Nintendo and each Call of Duty that releases each year.
    You do realize that the majority of Nintendo's top end titles literally prints money for them without microtransactions, right? It doesn't take much when you actually put effort into making a game fun and enjoyable for countless hours. When you make games as shallow as Call of Duty (which relies on DLC and microtransactions extensively) or Battlefield 5, of course you are going to bleed players quickly and lose out on potential MTX sales.

    Congrats to the 11 fools who made the ignore list, your ignorance knows no bounds, bravo!

  8. #1048
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    You do realize that the majority of Nintendo's top end titles literally prints money for them without microtransactions, right?
    Not sure why your asking me this..

    I fully know and agree about Nintendo's top end titles and that was kinda my point to the person I replied to.
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  9. #1049
    Old God Vash The Stampede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krastyn View Post
    It's not a substantial decline for a product entering the end of its life cycle. Look at any product curve nearing the end of its life. The PS4 also took a hit in hardware sales, for the same reason. At this point in time almost everyone who wants a PS or Xbox already has one, or is going to wait for the next gen. If my Xbox died tomorrow, I wouldn't buy a new one. I'd either buy a used one, or wait until next summer for the Scarlet.
    I doubt the PS4 took a 50% dip in sales. No doubt that the PS4 and Xbox One are nearing hardware saturation, but at the same time the Xbox One doesn't have any worth while exclusives. So if something broke on the Xbox One, I'd imagine those people would switch to PC, PS4, or even Switch.

    So then you didn't actually read the release, which stated "Our first-quarternet bookings came in well above target, thanks to the very robust performance of our games ‒ notably Rainbow Six Siege and Assassin’s Creed Odyssey ‒ and a very strong increase in player recurring investment for PCs and consoles, led by record-high engagement levels per player."

    There definitely was a rise in PC revenue.
    PC revenue, but what about sales? Revenue doesn't equal growth. You could have less players who just so happen to spend more in micro-transactions. You know, like whales.


    Citation needed, please.

    Again, if you actually look at numbers and try to use actual facts to back up what you're saying, you'll see you are wrong. Activision yty actually increased sales. While Blizzard's sales are down yty from 2018, if you actually read the statements, it's because 2018 was higher due to pre-sales of BFA and revenue from Overwatch League.
    They hit the numbers they expected to with no new releases.
    Do I need to citation something that's been all over the news since Blizzard fired 800 employee's and oddly enough is now looking to rehire for those positions? Though lately I hear there's been a recent increase in subscribers for WoW since the release of 8.2 and Classic is around the corner.

    Yeah, they have only been around for 7 years, and mobile gaming is the largest growing market for gaming.
    Seven years compared to nearly four decades of gamers? You don't see tablet users harking back to when Super Mario bros didn't have loot boxes. It's a very new market relatively. Especially when you consider that for the past several years the price of tablets and smart phones have gotten cheap enough that children can have their own. Most PC and console gamers are adults and have enough experience to know a time period when games didn't have micro-transactions and loot boxes, while tablet users can't remember when they paid for a game but aren't upset about buying micro-transactions.




    The in game shop actually has worked out quite well for them from a revenue perspective.
    Revenue but a nearly dead player base. WoW is full of whales. Did these whales make as much money as when there was 12 million subscribers? Like Assassin's Creed Odyssey with low sales but the micro-transactions might have made up for it and then some, but is that the same thing as Red Dead Redemption 2's 24 million sales? Probably not.

    So someone makes a Youtube video of their top 10 reasons why company X is bad, and that becomes the absolute truth that the company is bad. I wasn't even going to bother watching this, but I did just to see how bad it would be.
    Guy posts on forum and therefore debunks video. What makes you more correct?
    So that's 11 minutes of my life wasted. You complain they can't do anything right lately, then link a list whose top 3 items are from four, three, and twelve years ago, respectively. I guess we have different views on what lately means.
    Shadow of War is one example. Enough to have them remove the game and re-balance it without the micro-transactions. There's the whole Star Wars Battlefront II fiasco. Pretty sure everyone forgot about Anthem by now.



    The mobile market and MTX in the AAA market are almost identical in age. Please also cite a source showing that sales of games with MTX are declining compared to those without.
    Not talking about the age of the market here, but the consumers. People on mobile devices are not experienced gamers and aren't going to fight back micro-transactions because they're used to mobile games having them. But at some point they won't be. Same thing happened to console and PC gamers, but we noticed how these micro-transactions and loot boxes effect game mechanics.

    And lost of newer and probably better games have been released recently, specifically with micro-transactions and loot boxes compared to many older games.
    That's financially impossible. You can't make a good game with loot boxes and micro-transactions. That's like cats and dogs living together. If the game is good then nobody will buy from the in game store. But if the game is just barely enjoyable, then people will go after the in game store.
    Last edited by Vash The Stampede; 2019-07-25 at 03:57 AM.

  10. #1050
    Sadly somehow I am not suprised...

  11. #1051
    Ban loot boxes and most rng from video games already.

  12. #1052
    *Buys Super Mario Bros game for son. ESRB says E for everyone.*
    Daddy, I need $1000 to try and get Princess Peach as a playable character. The website says your credit card is out of funds.

  13. #1053
    I am suprised no one has mentioned GTA Online's latest addition with the Casino. It has been banned in dozens of countries since it is seen there as online-gambling. That could set a precedent for things to come.
    Quote Originally Posted by Machismo View Post
    I'm fine with a mafia. Of course, the mafia families often worked with independent third parties in order to maintain relations.

  14. #1054
    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post
    Pretty sure everyone forgot about Anthem by now.
    I actually had 100% forgotten the game even existed. Now to forget that trash all over again!

  15. #1055
    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post
    I doubt the PS4 took a 50% dip in sales. No doubt that the PS4 and Xbox One are nearing hardware saturation, but at the same time the Xbox One doesn't have any worth while exclusives. So if something broke on the Xbox One, I'd imagine those people would switch to PC, PS4, or even Switch.
    PS4 hardware sales are also took a hit in Q1. Sony announced as such. Now you're shifting goalposts from people quitting AAA to just chasing exclusives on other hardware? Stick to an argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post
    PC revenue, but what about sales? Revenue doesn't equal growth. You could have less players who just so happen to spend more in micro-transactions. You know, like whales.
    Well they don't state it in their quarterly reports, but for FY2018, their MAU was up 16%. So they are showing both revenue and growth. You would know this if you even bothered to do two minutes of checking yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post
    Do I need to citation something that's been all over the news since Blizzard fired 800 employee's and oddly enough is now looking to rehire for those positions? Though lately I hear there's been a recent increase in subscribers for WoW since the release of 8.2 and Classic is around the corner.
    You do when you clearly only read half the release and are making statements that directly contradict information that has been publicly released. But that's how this whole discussion has gone. Instead of actual facts you just use personal opinion and second hand summaries.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post
    Seven years compared to nearly four decades of gamers? You don't see tablet users harking back to when Super Mario bros didn't have loot boxes. It's a very new market relatively. Especially when you consider that for the past several years the price of tablets and smart phones have gotten cheap enough that children can have their own. Most PC and console gamers are adults and have enough experience to know a time period when games didn't have micro-transactions and loot boxes, while tablet users can't remember when they paid for a game but aren't upset about buying micro-transactions.
    You really need to educate yourself on the demographics of gamers. The vast majority of all gamers (70%+), regardless of platform are adults. So please stop trying to peddle bullshit that it is simply "inexperienced" people who are the only ones buying MTX.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post
    Revenue but a nearly dead player base. WoW is full of whales. Did these whales make as much money as when there was 12 million subscribers?
    Do you honestly believe that Blizzard could have retained 12 million subscribers indefinitely, something no video game release outside of China has done, ever?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post
    Like Assassin's Creed Odyssey with low sales but the micro-transactions might have made up for it and then some, but is that the same thing as Red Dead Redemption 2's 24 million sales? Probably not.
    Low sales compared to what, exactly? Oddyssey outsold Unity, Syndicate and Origins. So in terms of the franchise, it's a success. Did it do better than the best selling game of the year, of course not. But if that's your metric, than every other game failed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post
    Guy posts on forum and therefore debunks video. What makes you more correct?
    It doesn't. It just goes to show how paper thin your argument is. Your backup for your argument is an opinion of a random group of people with zero factual backup. I've repeatedly linked you actual data that counters your number, and you keep coming back with random opinions and "feelings" of how things should be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post
    Shadow of War is one example. There's the whole Star Wars Battlefront II fiasco. Pretty sure everyone forgot about Anthem by now.
    Unless I'm mistaken, Shadow of War, Battlefront II and Anthem weren't made by Activision. I'm really tired of chasing your goalposts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post
    *snip*
    Not bothering to watch anymore videos from you after that complete waste of time of the last one. It's probably just another random person giving their opinion on Youtube. Not giving them the clicks.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post
    Not talking about the age of the market here, but the consumers. People on mobile devices are not experienced gamers and aren't going to fight back micro-transactions because they're used to mobile games having them. But at some point they won't be. Same thing happened to console and PC gamers, but we noticed how these micro-transactions and loot boxes effect game mechanics.
    I'll say it again. CITATION NEEDED. Can you show me that the average mobile gamer has only ever played mobile games? And your "children are huge" on mobile, is again, absolute bullshit. You clearly have absolutely no understandings of the actual market demographics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post
    That's financially impossible. You can't make a good game with loot boxes and micro-transactions. That's like cats and dogs living together. If the game is good then nobody will buy from the in game store. But if the game is just barely enjoyable, then people will go after the in game store.
    That's an incredibly bold and entirely inaccurate statement, with zero to back it up other than your opinion. I can easily disprove your statement just with personal experience. There are some games with MTX that I specifically bought the MTX for them because I enjoyed the game. So clearly not impossible.

  16. #1056
    Old God Vash The Stampede's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krastyn View Post
    PS4 hardware sales are also took a hit in Q1. Sony announced as such. Now you're shifting goalposts from people quitting AAA to just chasing exclusives on other hardware? Stick to an argument.
    Well yea. Xbox One doesn't have good exclusives and the PS4 has God of War, SpiderMan, Bloodborne, Last of Us, and etc. All exclusives without micro-transactions, just like Nintendo titles on the Switch. It seems it's the 3rd party AAA developers who are big into micro-transactions/Loot Boxes. But 50% less hardware sales for Xbox One is a huge overall decline in the market and shows that gamers are focused on games that aren't micro-transaction infused. Gamers are either jumping on the PS4/Switch for the exclusives that lack these monetization systems or they don't game at all or they play older games.

    Well they don't state it in their quarterly reports, but for FY2018, their MAU was up 16%. So they are showing both revenue and growth. You would know this if you even bothered to do two minutes of checking yourself.
    So what are the sales if they're showing both revenue and growth? Companies will do many things to show their business is healthy.

    You really need to educate yourself on the demographics of gamers. The vast majority of all gamers (70%+), regardless of platform are adults. So please stop trying to peddle bullshit that it is simply "inexperienced" people who are the only ones buying MTX.
    And what about the mobile market? I know gamers on PC/Xbox/PS are mostly adults, but that explains why micro-transactions are getting resistance on these platforms. Fallout 76 doesn't have a very different formula to mobile games but look how well that played out. The mobile market is the one full of children.



    Do you honestly believe that Blizzard could have retained 12 million subscribers indefinitely, something no video game release outside of China has done, ever?
    No but right now they barely have 1 million. When you get too greedy you lose everything. That's the rule of life.
    Low sales compared to what, exactly? Oddyssey outsold Unity, Syndicate and Origins. So in terms of the franchise, it's a success. Did it do better than the best selling game of the year, of course not. But if that's your metric, than every other game failed.
    CITATION NEEDED

    Unless I'm mistaken, Shadow of War, Battlefront II and Anthem weren't made by Activision. I'm really tired of chasing your goalposts.
    Destiny both 1 & 2, Black Ops 4 disappoint in profits from Activisions perspective, and now you have Apex Legends.

    That's an incredibly bold and entirely inaccurate statement, with zero to back it up other than your opinion. I can easily disprove your statement just with personal experience. There are some games with MTX that I specifically bought the MTX for them because I enjoyed the game. So clearly not impossible.
    You aren't the entire gaming market. I like A Hat in Time and bought it, doesn't mean everyone did.

  17. #1057
    Scarab Lord Razorice's Avatar
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    Well, If I had a kid he would either:
    A) Not have access to my credit card
    B) Can earn his own cash and spend it on 'lulboxes' if he so desires.

  18. #1058
    Quote Originally Posted by Vash The Stampede View Post
    CITATION NEEDED
    https://gamerant.com/assassins-creed...s-current-gen/

    After the game’s release earlier this month, Assassin's Creed Odyssey now holds the title of having the best launch in the series for this console generation, effectively outperforming some of its most recent predecessors, Origins, Syndicate, and Unity.
    Pay-2-Win?

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  19. #1059
    Please wait Temp name's Avatar
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    I'm curious if that success came from ditching the core fan base.. The last 2 games have been very much RPGs first, and AC games second. Which is a downside if you ask me, and I honestly just haven't played them, because if I wanted an RPG there are ones that I think just look better.

  20. #1060
    Stood in the Fire Popastique's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Temp name View Post
    I'm curious if that success came from ditching the core fan base.. The last 2 games have been very much RPGs first, and AC games second. Which is a downside if you ask me, and I honestly just haven't played them, because if I wanted an RPG there are ones that I think just look better.
    If you ask me - it is for the better, i have been a fan of old AC games - my favorite one was AC Syndicate. But the whole *Assassins vs Templars* concept got boring after so many games, so if they just named the current game Odyssey and deleted all the AC connections - it still would be good.

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