View Poll Results: Should the players be "punished" for killing low level characters in the warmode?

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  • Yes

    291 34.85%
  • No

    544 65.15%
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  1. #761
    Quote Originally Posted by Lenarific View Post
    im calling bullshit on only be ganked twice not how many frigging toons you have.... And GFY cool story bro
    Don't know if it's relevant, but even as horde, the last time I leveled up a toon for the guide I was ganked 5 times by capped alliance players during the process. That's 5 different capped alliance players, some of which killed me and camped(at which point I just logged off and went to make a sandwhich and do some household chores).

    It was pretty lame on the side of the alliance character, but didn't really hurt me personally. But then again, I'm a veteran of a PVP server and am used to weaksauce bored trolls thinking they're somehow cool for "fighting" low level players. :/ There was no PVP generated from these events. Nobody came to stop the ganker. A few people complained in general, and a few people logged over to their mains, but by the ganker didn't stick around to fight. It was one big fat waste of time for everyone.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    No, it wasn't false at all. Those capped players who are actually ganking low level characters probably got their asses handed to them more than just 6 out of 7 times in the past.
    Not by leveling characters, they didn't. Which is my point. Those capped players need to be fighting other capped players. There's ZERO healthy PVP to be gained from ganking.



    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    There, getting "fair" aka scripted one vs one, two vs two etc. fights, just like BG's provide you. There is no strawmans used (by me atleast) jsut like I don't back up from my analogies etc.
    You just quoted me and then misrepresented it again. :/

    I NEVER said "scripted" anything. I never made mention of 1v1 or 2v2 as a specific case. That was all you. The only time I even said anything remotely similar is when I made the statement that most WPVP encounters in the wild are solo players. Which is a simple statement of fact. Most people who are leveling up characters do so solo, and when they run into an enemy player, that person is likely also soloing. That's not what I want it to be; that's simply a factual statement.

    The reference to BGs was about scaling, not about perfectly equal matches. You just made a pile of assumptions and ran with it.


    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    And, again, in your solution the two are the same. Want to remove actual ganking? make character unkillable by a player who killed you 5 times in the last 15 minutes.
    What's the difference between being "unkillable" and simply not seeing the other player at all? How does your solution promote or encourage WPVP? Couldn't the capped player still interfere with WPVP by healing low level players of their own faction?


    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    The system was and is good, it could be better via actual WPvP rewards, but changing the fundamental part of everyone taking part in WPvP would just destroy the whole system and make the world just one empty battleground with really nothing to fear.
    The only thing destroying WPVP is Blizzard's current setup. Players shouldn't be afraid to engage in playing the game. They shouldn't have to worry about being shit on with no chance to fight back. They shouldn't have to risk being trolled and camped just to turn on their PVP flag.

    And before you twist that statement, no, I don't mean they should always get a perfectly scripted Battleground type fight or 1v1 duel. They should simply get a change to fight players of their own level range. If that fight results in losing, at least the fight would be against characters their own level, in an environment where there is at least a CHANCE of fighting back.

    There's nothing good about allowing high level players to kill low level players, and there are better ways to fuel faction pride and loyalty than by basing in on salt generated from toxic behavior. Restricting ganking would not ruin PVP or make the world empty. You have zero evidence or grounds for that statement. All it would do is take weaksuace toxic players and require them to PVP against people in their own level range. WPVP would continue to happen at all levels of the game, just without ganking.

    There would no loss of anything significant besides the "PVP" that happens when a troll decides to shit on a low level player. You are VASTLY overestimating the value of ganking.

  2. #762
    Pandaren Monk lappee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Not by leveling characters, they didn't. Which is my point. Those capped players need to be fighting other capped players. There's ZERO healthy PVP to be gained from ganking.
    Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. It could be they got their asses handed to them by lower level players when they were playing their alts. More often than not players that actually gank did get triggered by losing hard.

    Actual ganking still does offer the extreme feeling of fear of it happening, which is still very rare. By all means fix it but not in the way you've been describing as that'll just destroy WPvP.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    You just quoted me and then misrepresented it again. :/

    I NEVER said "scripted" anything. I never made mention of 1v1 or 2v2 as a specific case. That was all you. The only time I even said anything remotely similar is when I made the statement that most WPVP encounters in the wild are solo players. Which is a simple statement of fact. Most people who are leveling up characters do so solo, and when they run into an enemy player, that person is likely also soloing. That's not what I want it to be; that's simply a factual statement.

    The reference to BGs was about scaling, not about perfectly equal matches. You just made a pile of assumptions and ran with it.
    Aiming for "balanced and fair" WPvP is the exact same thing as calling for scripted pvp such as battlegrounds, it is a simple fact and doesn't change even if you didn't specifically say "1v1 or 2v2" because it is implied in the word "fair". Unless "fair" to you means completely opposite to what is means for the rest of the world.

    Most WPvP encounters are far from being 1v1's, most WPvP encounters actually happen in world quest locations where there are multiple people. Its actually really hard to find 1v1 situations since people are in specific places and routes to them are very direct. IF your "fact" was actually the case then there would be no whining from Alliance side about War Mode.

    Leveling people surely run into people that are solo but the chance that they're at the same level range is still very thin, the chances that they'll even run into anyone are already thin. You, and people like you, want to separate them even further into level brackets that feel "fair" which will only result in never seeing anyone and being unable group up with anyone. It would completely undermine everything Blizzard did with old world scaling.
    If there happens to be a rush into leveling once 8.1 hits then people will group up in order to ease the opposing forces, which will again be a state of "unfairness" and result in people like you whining for a different shard where only grouped up people show up.

    IT is a never ending shitshow and the only solution is for people like you to man up or choose to not play in Warmode and do BG's instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    What's the difference between being "unkillable" and simply not seeing the other player at all? How does your solution promote or encourage WPVP? Couldn't the capped player still interfere with WPVP by healing low level players of their own faction?
    That the world is a dangerous place, no extra servers needed. Encourages for groupin, asking for help. The benefits are numerous, people just don't want to use them.


    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    The only thing destroying WPVP is Blizzard's current setup. Players shouldn't be afraid to engage in playing the game. They shouldn't have to worry about being shit on with no chance to fight back. They shouldn't have to risk being trolled and camped just to turn on their PVP flag.

    And before you twist that statement, no, I don't mean they should always get a perfectly scripted Battleground type fight or 1v1 duel. They should simply get a change to fight players of their own level range. If that fight results in losing, at least the fight would be against characters their own level, in an environment where there is at least a CHANCE of fighting back.

    There's nothing good about allowing high level players to kill low level players, and there are better ways to fuel faction pride and loyalty than by basing in on salt generated from toxic behavior. Restricting ganking would not ruin PVP or make the world empty. You have zero evidence or grounds for that statement. All it would do is take weaksuace toxic players and require them to PVP against people in their own level range. WPVP would continue to happen at all levels of the game, just without ganking.

    There would no loss of anything significant besides the "PVP" that happens when a troll decides to shit on a low level player. You are VASTLY overestimating the value of ganking.
    You want to engage in War Mode then you should be afraid of facing people of any level at any time. Don't want it? Don't opt in it. It really is that simple.

    So you don't want a scripted battleground fight but you want the equivalent in the outdoor world, which is exactly a scripted battleground fight. A "fair" fight of your own level range (which alone is depatable what is a "fair" level range). People at low leve ranges are already whining about healers being too strong and impossible to kill, imagine what 2v1's are when that happens. It is, as I said, a never ending shitshow of "I want it to be fairer and fairer and fairer until I have 50% winrate".

    There absolutely is good in letting World PvP involve everyone. It can further friendships, cause mass battles, envy, joy, admiration, all kinds of feelings. Also ganking does not require a higher level, one can gank just fine with a level appropriate character - sometimes I really wonder if you even know what the word you're constantly using to defend your stance actually means.
    Restricting ganking in the way you and the people like you have proposed would indeed make the world emptier. You would see less players around, only a handful of people who turned off Warmode because of high levels would return because they simply don't like PvP and the rest are still playing with Warmode on. Its true I have no other basis but basic logic and my own experience for the matter but then again you don't have any evidence either. The only actual evidence is that PvP servers were well populated and for majority the only affect from them was the outdoor world, aka World PVP, since everything else, except mythic raidin, could be done cross-server.

  3. #763
    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    Aiming for "balanced and fair" WPvP is the exact same thing as calling for scripted pvp such as battlegrounds, it is a simple fact and doesn't change even if you didn't specifically say "1v1 or 2v2" because it is implied in the word "fair". Unless "fair" to you means completely opposite to what is means for the rest of the world.

    Most WPvP encounters are far from being 1v1's, most WPvP encounters actually happen in world quest locations where there are multiple people. Its actually really hard to find 1v1 situations since people are in specific places and routes to them are very direct. IF your "fact" was actually the case then there would be no whining from Alliance side about War Mode.
    At this point it's clear to me, that you deliberately do not want to understand what SirCowdog is writing.

  4. #764
    Mechagnome saintminya's Avatar
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    SirCowdog just wants everything to be instanced and "fair". Lappee has been setting it straight the whole thread.

    I'll say it again, the real solution here is to remove the rewards and incentives. If you still complain about PVP then, then it is clearly not for you.

  5. #765
    Herald of the Titans In Ogres We Trust's Avatar
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    What happened to arguing for "Fair PvP" a/k/a level-scaling the individual to the zone?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Okay... after browsing the thread, I'll suggest the following solutions:

    a) Scale the individuals to the zone and/or the intended range, e.g. within the EK and Kalimdor, a level 120 player would hit like a level 60 player (to me, this rewards the higher level, but it gives the lower level a fighting chance - with or without additional assistance).
    b) Bring back dishonorable kills and/or dishonor that accumulates over time (for attacking lower levels outside of a certain range, etc.).
    c) Introduce a bounty system that rewards higher level participation against "gankers", etc.
    d) Extend the Sanctuary zones to level 40 (to be honest, I don't remember the actual term for the lower zones, but I'm referencing the low-level zones with PvP disabled by default).

  6. #766
    i have players on some FULL monster population pre-BFA PVE servers. those who PVP'd did it thru BGs, arenas, WGs, etc. the people ruining warmode are predom PVE server levelers wanting extra XP, when they hit what ever level they are seeking turn it off. the majority of them aren't PVP'rs to begin with.

    the QQ level on the server ramped up rather insanely, in trade/guild chat and zones, they love their extra XP boost, whine about getting killed in STV, westfall, etc etc.they have little to no experience of what it is like on PVP servers before warmode option. STV for example on PVP servers never quit being a warzone, due to content that brings players of all levels there. on PVE servers leveling thru STV was a skippity do da care bear experience, they turn warmode on and they are shocked.

  7. #767
    Pandaren Monk lappee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by In Ogres We Trust View Post
    a) Scale the individuals to the zone and/or the intended range, e.g. within the EK and Kalimdor, a level 120 player would hit like a level 60 player (to me, this rewards the higher level, but it gives the lower level a fighting chance - with or without additional assistance).
    This is what Guild Wars did, though its still not "fair" because of all the gear and extra abilities. Sadly Blizzard did their system the other way around and scales mobs instead of players.

  8. #768
    Quote Originally Posted by saintminya View Post
    SirCowdog just wants everything to be instanced and "fair". Lappee has been setting it straight the whole thread.
    No. He doesn't want everything to be "fair", he wants to have opponents where the outcome isn't a forgone conclusion like 120s roflstomping through lowies. Lappee twists SirCowdogs words every post.

  9. #769
    Mechagnome saintminya's Avatar
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    He only wants to fight people in the same bracket, yet he wants to level in warmode. That is best done in battlegrounds, considering the majority of people engaging in world pvp are at or near the cap. It should be noted, and I'm not sure if it has been yet, that World PVP has always favoured the attacking party. Regardless of their level. If you were a 117 Monk and engaged a 120 whatever you'd have the advantage. Nothing about it has ever been fair to the guy getting attacked, and that is as it should be.

    Not sure who mentioned it, but the scaling of damage is the most horrenedous thing I've seen suggested so far here. Having only similarly-leveled characters getting their own phase is a decent-enough thought, and one I had agreed with a while back, but still is too reliant on dividing the world up. This would likely lead to you being able to engage with people closer to your level, but probably mean there'd be far less of them around. If you want people in your same level bracket, battlegrounds are always there for you.

  10. #770
    Pandaren Monk lappee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    No. He doesn't want everything to be "fair", he wants to have opponents where the outcome isn't a forgone conclusion like 120s roflstomping through lowies. Lappee twists SirCowdogs words every post.
    So in other words he wants it fair, since if it isn't fair then the outcome is exactly the same as with 120's roflstomping you.
    I'm just translating it to be clear for everyone what he, and people like him, wants. It really is just that simple.

  11. #771
    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    So in other words he wants it fair, since if it isn't fair then the outcome is exactly the same as with 120's roflstomping you.
    I'm just translating it to be clear for everyone what he, and people like him, wants. It really is just that simple.
    And again you twist and turn.

    It's pointless discussing with you, have a nice day.

  12. #772
    Pandaren Monk lappee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    And again you twist and turn.

    It's pointless discussing with you, have a nice day.
    You claim that all the time yet you don't actually prove it. Its understandable that you don't like what your words actually mean but that isn't my fault, you just have to learn to accept the facts and live with them.

  13. #773
    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. It could be they got their asses handed to them by lower level players when they were playing their alts. More often than not players that actually gank did get triggered by losing hard.

    Actual ganking still does offer the extreme feeling of fear of it happening, which is still very rare. By all means fix it but not in the way you've been describing as that'll just destroy WPvP.
    Whatever reason for initially deciding to take your capped toon into a low level area and troll around, it's still unacceptable. Two wrongs don't make a right in this context.

    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    Aiming for "balanced and fair" WPvP is the exact same thing as calling for scripted pvp such as battlegrounds, it is a simple fact and doesn't change even if you didn't specifically say "1v1 or 2v2" because it is implied in the word "fair". Unless "fair" to you means completely opposite to what is means for the rest of the world.

    Most WPvP encounters are far from being 1v1's, most WPvP encounters actually happen in world quest locations where there are multiple people. Its actually really hard to find 1v1 situations since people are in specific places and routes to them are very direct. IF your "fact" was actually the case then there would be no whining from Alliance side about War Mode.
    I'm going to stop you there, because what it sounds like is that you're talking about level-capped WPVP. In which case I would tend to agree with you. There are a lot of complaints from alliance players at level cap about War Mode, and that's being addressed with sharding to balance out the population problem(which is the main complaint).

    The interesting thing is that you and others have claimed that if ganking was limited, people would still complain about unfair fights where they're outnumbered. Except that we see Blizzard taking steps against the population imbalance, so it stands to reason that they would(using your own logic) ALSO be willing to limit ganking.


    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    That the world is a dangerous place, no extra servers needed. Encourages for groupin, asking for help. The benefits are numerous, people just don't want to use them.
    Yes, and that danger should come from players that people can fight, NOT from one-sided stompings where neither side actually gets to do anything meaningful. The encouragement to group up and ask for help would still happen, probably from the 2v1 or 3v1 fight you alluded to earlier.


    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    You want to engage in War Mode then you should be afraid of facing people of any level at any time. Don't want it? Don't opt in it. It really is that simple.
    Clearly it's NOT that simple, considering the argument going on here for nearly 40 pages. :/


    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    So you don't want a scripted battleground fight but you want the equivalent in the outdoor world, which is exactly a scripted battleground fight. A "fair" fight of your own level range (which alone is depatable what is a "fair" level range). People at low leve ranges are already whining about healers being too strong and impossible to kill, imagine what 2v1's are when that happens. It is, as I said, a never ending shitshow of "I want it to be fairer and fairer and fairer until I have 50% winrate".
    What I want is for players to have a chance to actually fight at all. 1v2 or even 1v3 fights ARE winnable. When I use the words "balanced" or "fair", I mean it within a range that allows for actual PVP to happen. I've said multiple times now that I am not suggesting some kind of perfectly scripted duel where players are guaranteed anything. YOU'RE the one who's stuck on this weird perfect battleground absolute justice fair duel scenario, not me.


    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    There absolutely is good in letting World PvP involve everyone. It can further friendships, cause mass battles, envy, joy, admiration, all kinds of feelings. Also ganking does not require a higher level, one can gank just fine with a level appropriate character - sometimes I really wonder if you even know what the word you're constantly using to defend your stance actually means.

    Restricting ganking in the way you and the people like you have proposed would indeed make the world emptier. You would see less players around, only a handful of people who turned off Warmode because of high levels would return because they simply don't like PvP and the rest are still playing with Warmode on. Its true I have no other basis but basic logic and my own experience for the matter but then again you don't have any evidence either. The only actual evidence is that PvP servers were well populated and for majority the only affect from them was the outdoor world, aka World PVP, since everything else, except mythic raidin, could be done cross-server.
    I don't mind if everyone was involved in WPVP, so long as the ability to grief players with one-sided ganks is removed. Perhaps Blizzard can create a system where higher level player lose access to their abilities as they move into lower-level zones while War Mode is on, and stats could be scaled down to level-appropriate values.

    My main purpose(again, for the record) is to stop the shitty toxic behavior of ganking by level capped players. And regardless of the terminology, it's the action of killing a low level player, with a character so powerful that there's LITERALLY no response to be made, that's the problem. I think the best way to do this is to use scaling and sharding. Blizzard appears to agree, at least in principle, since they've already done this for the 110-120 level range. Using that as a starting point is a good idea, and later changes can be made if it doesn't work.

    Because ultimately I'd rather have zones with less players in them than subject more players to being ganked by bored trolls. At least on the rare occasions people ran into the opposite faction, they could actually fight instead of just being erased with no opportunity to fight at all.


    (EDIT: For the record, I do not believe that sharding and scaling would empty zones like you think. I think that as more people started leveling without fear of being shit on, populations would increase, and thus also WPVP encounters would as well. Especially given new allied races and heritage armors as incentives to start new characters)

  14. #774
    Pandaren Monk lappee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Whatever reason for initially deciding to take your capped toon into a low level area and troll around, it's still unacceptable. Two wrongs don't make a right in this context.
    Indeed it doesn't and doing a 3rd wrong (destorying WPvP) makes it even less right.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    I'm going to stop you there, because what it sounds like is that you're talking about level-capped WPVP. In which case I would tend to agree with you. There are a lot of complaints from alliance players at level cap about War Mode, and that's being addressed with sharding to balance out the population problem(which is the main complaint).

    The interesting thing is that you and others have claimed that if ganking was limited, people would still complain about unfair fights where they're outnumbered. Except that we see Blizzard taking steps against the population imbalance, so it stands to reason that they would(using your own logic) ALSO be willing to limit ganking.
    I was talking about WPvP as a whole, since thats what your words meant when you blatantly claim something to be a fact when its not.

    Ganking at max level is even more rare than it is during leveling, it simply isn't an issue to begin with (apart from the whiners who are basically saying getting killed by anyone higher than you is ganking). Balancing shards will lessen it at max level yes but it still won't remove it and it definitely won't remove getting killed by a raid of other faction at world bosses and group quest objectives. As long as sharding and grouping exist together it will happen.
    What it won't do is help in the old world, there simply isn't enough players to even beg for sharding.


    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Yes, and that danger should come from players that people can fight, NOT from one-sided stompings where neither side actually gets to do anything meaningful. The encouragement to group up and ask for help would still happen, probably from the 2v1 or 3v1 fight you alluded to earlier.
    The danger should come from everyone of the opposing faction. If there is a high level killing low lever passbyers then you should call for a high level friend and cause some action there or bond with the low levels and group up agains the high level given the level difference isn't too great.


    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    Clearly it's NOT that simple, considering the argument going on here for nearly 40 pages. :/
    No, it really is that simple. Some people are just too dumb to understand 1+1 and there are people who continuously try to teach them the answer, thus all the pages.


    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    What I want is for players to have a chance to actually fight at all. 1v2 or even 1v3 fights ARE winnable. When I use the words "balanced" or "fair", I mean it within a range that allows for actual PVP to happen. I've said multiple times now that I am not suggesting some kind of perfectly scripted duel where players are guaranteed anything. YOU'RE the one who's stuck on this weird perfect battleground absolute justice fair duel scenario, not me.
    And yet what you just described is exactly what scripted battlegrounds are. You can get into 1v2, 1v3 situations and still be able to win them out. You won't get into a situation of 1v10 or 1v15 (unless you really charge into opposing faction in Epic Battlegrounds) and you won't get into situations where you're outleveled by 10's of levels.

    So after all, you're all about wanting those balanced scripted battlegrounds of no1 being around. Just like I've been saying all along.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    I don't mind if everyone was involved in WPVP, so long as the ability to grief players with one-sided ganks is removed. Perhaps Blizzard can create a system where higher level player lose access to their abilities as they move into lower-level zones while War Mode is on, and stats could be scaled down to level-appropriate values.

    My main purpose(again, for the record) is to stop the shitty toxic behavior of ganking by level capped players. And regardless of the terminology, it's the action of killing a low level player, with a character so powerful that there's LITERALLY no response to be made, that's the problem. I think the best way to do this is to use scaling and sharding. Blizzard appears to agree, at least in principle, since they've already done this for the 110-120 level range. Using that as a starting point is a good idea, and later changes can be made if it doesn't work.

    Because ultimately I'd rather have zones with less players in them than subject more players to being ganked by bored trolls. At least on the rare occasions people ran into the opposite faction, they could actually fight instead of just being erased with no opportunity to fight at all.


    (EDIT: For the record, I do not believe that sharding and scaling would empty zones like you think. I think that as more people started leveling without fear of being shit on, populations would increase, and thus also WPVP encounters would as well. Especially given new allied races and heritage armors as incentives to start new characters)
    Blizzard will NEVER cause players to lose out on their abilities when going to lower level zones, it would be anti-rpg and the whining about PvP talents being lost when entering PvE dungeons has already proven it is a wrong way to take. Scaling people to the same level, like other games already do, would be a better solution than the current one but I doubt Blizzard will re-do all of their work and it still wouldn't be "fair" for the low levels, just an illusion of it.

    So you don't want to actually stop ganking, you just want to make everything "fair" aka what battlegrounds are. Exactly what battlegrounds are. So the solution still is the same, don't level in Warmode but rather just do battlegrounds for your PvP desires. It really is that simple.

    Dividing players even further in the world will just make the world feel even emptier than what it currently is. There are very few people around in non-Warmode world and only a handful of those would re-opt-in to Warmode, only to find the world being sharded so that you can't actually see anyone around unless you make the shards contain so large amount of different levels that you'll eventually find yourself in the same situation of high levels (just not cap levels this time) killing lower levels actually changing nothing but that you can't call out for help from your cap level friends.

  15. #775
    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    Indeed it doesn't and doing a 3rd wrong (destorying WPvP) makes it even less right.
    You have no grounds to make such an assumption, and haven't even made any convincing arguments that scaling and sharding would lead to the "destruction of WPVP". Blizzard even seems to think the opposite, since they're doing exactly what I describe from 110-120. You're attempting to over-exaggerate some fantasy negative effect because you don't want to admit you might not be right. :/




    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    I was talking about WPvP as a whole, since thats what your words meant when you blatantly claim something to be a fact when its not.
    This entire time I've been talking about ganking low level players. That does NOT include whatever WPVP happens at level cap, or in the current expansion's zones. That matter is already addressed by Blizzard. If you want to try and extend the scope to that area in order to support your argument, it just doesn't work. It's flawed logic.


    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    Ganking at max level is even more rare than it is during leveling, it simply isn't an issue to begin with (apart from the whiners who are basically saying getting killed by anyone higher than you is ganking). Balancing shards will lessen it at max level yes but it still won't remove it and it definitely won't remove getting killed by a raid of other faction at world bosses and group quest objectives. As long as sharding and grouping exist together it will happen.
    What it won't do is help in the old world, there simply isn't enough players to even beg for sharding.
    There is no "ganking" at level cap. It's just regular WPVP. :/ Something you claim to want to support. All I'm suggesting is applying the same sorts of more or less equal-power fights, but at lower level ranges.

    Also, no one is begging. This has been a mostly civil discussion the past few pages. Kindly do not drag it down by attempting to portray people that disagree with you as engaging in pitiful behavior.


    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    The danger should come from everyone of the opposing faction. If there is a high level killing low lever passbyers then you should call for a high level friend and cause some action there or bond with the low levels and group up agains the high level given the level difference isn't too great.
    The danger SHOULD come from the opposing faction, yes. However, you should not be required to call in strangers or friends simply to have a chance to fight back. That should be something you can do on your own, at your own level. You might not win, especially if outnumbered. But you should at least be able to fire back to some effect. 1v2 or even 1v3 battles are VERY winnable if a person is skilled and aware, but no amount of skill or awareness will save you from a capped player than one-shots.




    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    No, it really is that simple. Some people are just too dumb to understand 1+1 and there are people who continuously try to teach them the answer, thus all the pages.
    I'll ask you a second time: Please refrain from implying that opponents of your point of view are stupid or lacking somehow.


    Quote Originally Posted by lappee View Post
    And yet what you just described is exactly what scripted battlegrounds are. You can get into 1v2, 1v3 situations and still be able to win them out. You won't get into a situation of 1v10 or 1v15 (unless you really charge into opposing faction in Epic Battlegrounds) and you won't get into situations where you're outleveled by 10's of levels.

    So after all, you're all about wanting those balanced scripted battlegrounds of no1 being around. Just like I've been saying all along.
    There is nothing scripted about randomly running into an enemy player while questing. Or a group of players.

    What I am arguing for is a reasonably fair chance to fight back. Once again I'll repeat: That is something you CAN NOT DO when ganked by a capped player.


    /sigh

    Whatever. It's become abundantly clear to me that you aren't interested in having an actual discussion. You just want to rant about issues no one has suggested or even brought up. Good day.

  16. #776
    Pandaren Monk lappee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    You have no grounds to make such an assumption, and haven't even made any convincing arguments that scaling and sharding would lead to the "destruction of WPVP". Blizzard even seems to think the opposite, since they're doing exactly what I describe from 110-120. You're attempting to over-exaggerate some fantasy negative effect because you don't want to admit you might not be right. :/
    Sure I have, it is my opinion (well educated at that) about what would happen, just like its your opinion that killing low level players is wrong in the first place.

    Except Blizzard isn't doing what you're describing. They are making balanced shards (and the rest would be horde only) but they're not dividing players from levelers and max level players.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    This entire time I've been talking about ganking low level players. That does NOT include whatever WPVP happens at level cap, or in the current expansion's zones. That matter is already addressed by Blizzard. If you want to try and extend the scope to that area in order to support your argument, it just doesn't work. It's flawed logic.
    Except when claimed your fact to be true, which is wasn't. You can't just state that "X is a fact" and then go I meant "X is only a fact when ZYWABCDERFG conditions are met". It doesn't support my argument, its just a statement of how your facts aren't actual facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    There is no "ganking" at level cap. It's just regular WPVP. :/ Something you claim to want to support. All I'm suggesting is applying the same sorts of more or less equal-power fights, but at lower level ranges.

    Also, no one is begging. This has been a mostly civil discussion the past few pages. Kindly do not drag it down by attempting to portray people that disagree with you as engaging in pitiful behavior.
    There absolutely is ganking at level cap, I've done it numerous times myself. Stop using the word Ganking when you don't have the furthest clue of what it actually means.

    Ans yes, people are begging or you just haven't actually paid any attention in the 40ish pages of this thread.


    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    The danger SHOULD come from the opposing faction, yes. However, you should not be required to call in strangers or friends simply to have a chance to fight back. That should be something you can do on your own, at your own level. You might not win, especially if outnumbered. But you should at least be able to fire back to some effect. 1v2 or even 1v3 battles are VERY winnable if a person is skilled and aware, but no amount of skill or awareness will save you from a capped player than one-shots.
    And thats simply where your idea of WPvP differs greatly from mine. Mine actually holds all players a part of WPvP (you know, all players are part of the world) while yours doesn't. What yours is is actual Battlegrounds as I've said many times before, yet you're unwilling to accept the fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    I'll ask you a second time: Please refrain from implying that opponents of your point of view are stupid or lacking somehow.
    Its a simple matter of a fact, there are people who can't count as simply math as 1+1. You yourself used this thread as an example and I gave you the exact reason why it has been so long.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    There is nothing scripted about randomly running into an enemy player while questing. Or a group of players.

    What I am arguing for is a reasonably fair chance to fight back. Once again I'll repeat: That is something you CAN NOT DO when ganked by a capped player.
    And I'll tell you once again, go to battlegrounds as those are exactly what you're asking. AV being a perfect example, you can do the quests there and randomly run into a player(s). Sure there is a greater chance than in the open world since there are more people but its still random.


    Quote Originally Posted by SirCowdog View Post
    /sigh

    Whatever. It's become abundantly clear to me that you aren't interested in having an actual discussion. You just want to rant about issues no one has suggested or even brought up. Good day.
    Except I'm the one actually answering all points every time while you have been cherry picking and dismissing points you don't want to deal with, at one point you even refused to answer me at all. All the while just spouring the same "ideals" out of your mouth without anything to actually back it up with.

    So clearly it is you who doesn't want to discuss but just spew your opinions around the place to destroy what we know as WPvP. Just go do your BG's while leveling in PvE mode and you'll be a happy man.

  17. #777
    Mechagnome saintminya's Avatar
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    Good advice above ^^^.

    Evidently SirCowDog doesn't realize the thread has gone on to nearly 40 pages due to him re-iterating the same nonsense over and over. It's simple man, War Mode is just not for you.

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