The leveling experience BADLY needs fixed.

[anon5123]

Blizz is never going to "Fix leveling" so long as they are selling level boosts.

[Daethz]

Leveling is a job right now, a bad repetitive job.
I want it to be just as fast as it was before these changes, only I want them to keep mobs difficult and keep the scaling system.

Nobody wanted them to make leveling take 20-40 times longer, they wanted leveling to not be a boring oneshot every single mob to max level grindfest.
They decided to do both.

[Nathasil]

I don't think being constantly pushed back from 70 > 60 while "leveling" a character is a good idea. I think Legion was a good blueprint how you can have meaningful character progression without levels. Your progression was the Artifact Weapon and the "library" of Legendaries you had. Both were removed when the expansion endet. What was ok. What was not ok was BFA trying to repace this system with nothing. Well, ok, they wrote "Azerite Gear" on a Box of nothing...but that still is nothing.

If your progress in each expansion worked like legion, e.g. tied to a currency that you collect from almost any kind of activity with MEANINGFUL class development+cosmetics attached to it (which Legion had and BFA has not) i think you could have enjoyable progression without any character levels at all.

This has other advantages, too: If somebody skips an expansion he does not need to buy/use a boost to get into the current expansion directly. He just picks up the quest to get this expansion's "progression system" going. It can be anyting, it does not have to be an item. He starts playing content and building that system up, after x steps in that system he unlocks endgame content for the current epansion ("max level dungeons + raids) and the he just goes from there.

If you are interested in the cosmetic/unlocks of previous expansions, you can always go back and do them...but it is not part of the "direct leveling path".

I think a system like that could work. It does sound better to me than BFA, which does have levels but absolutely no progression/cosmetics/rewards attached to them.

[Trend]

What are you talking about? The playerbase has collapsed....

And here I thought the game was tanking because of the introduction of the snake people NPC's ... you know, because people really hate snakes.

Just kidding. Of course I didn't think that because I know there is a difference between correlation and causation.

[Kokolums]

I disagree 100%. Scaling level should have been in cataclysm. As is, blizzard created there wonderful stories (Silverpine, Stonetalon etc) but players can get through them....because they outlevel the zone by 5 levels just by questing.

Leveling is a massive mess, because we now know exactly what it is: A massive gate towards getting to the real endgame content. Its an irritating arbitrary barrier of things you have already done on your main that blocks you. Atleast with scaling, you can actually experience the entire zone before moving on. And that alone is a massive improvment.

Also the idea that leveling scaling is causing subscription numbers to drop in large numbers...no, just no.

1. leveling should NOT be a gate to endgame. That's just terrible design on Blizzard's part.

2. Players can't finish the stories because XP is gained too quickly. Scaling just breaks leveling more.

- - - Updated - - -

And here I thought the game was tanking because of the introduction of the snake people NPC's ... you know, because people really hate snakes.

Just kidding. Of course I didn't think that because I know there is a difference between correlation and causation.

Whoa! I didn't say the playerbase has collapsed because of leveling. Watch that reading comprehension.

[elaina]

I have no problem with and prefer the leveling experience covering the history of the game itself.

Level squish is the stupidest idea, here is why: leveling will always take exactly as long as blizzard wants it to. They have shown this by tinkering with xp amounts per level and truncating the time to do old content with successive expansions etc. This completely removes the need to remove level numbers. And since reaching max will always take X time (decided by blizzard), why not leave it divided by a higher number so that you are leveling up faster and more often. The experience of getting a level is still a good feeling, even if it has been soured by stale class development over the leveling process (OP's argument that progression stops at level 80 is a huge problem, exacerbated by world scaling and never getting a leg-up).

Lack of class development in late levels (and lesser so throughout) is the only gripe on here worth a damn.

[Soon-TM]

They could at least have all zones scale from their original floor up to [current cap - 10], so that if you like levelling in, say, Pandaria, you go there the moment you are level 80 and stay there until 110 (currently). Same for Outland, Northrend, Draenor, and of course old world. You could go 1-110 in Kalimdor/EK if so you desire.

[Deleted]

Okay, so, I finally put together the time to get my Mag'har orc to 110, but it's also allowed me to look at the ridiculous pile of problems that the current "leveling" experience currently has. Here's a short list:

First of all, the actual game itself (rather than expansions) is now almost completely ignored. The scaling of mob levels and experience helps the problem by keeping a single zone appropriate for all of your levels, but what this does is effectively remove three quarters of the original world. If you're random-queuing for dungeons, it will remove even more than this. Not only does this dramatically reduce the encouragement to play a far bigger game than any expansion, it makes basic profession development practically impossible.

Then, of course, there's the random-queuing for dungeons. The opportunity is wildly out of line throughout, as it's not up to you which one you get, which means the potential time-demand can vary dramatically. Despite this frustration (or continually getting the same dungeon), random-queuing for dungeons as a tank or healer is by far the fastest route to level 60, at least. Because of the travelling that general questing requires, random dungeon-running is extraordinarily more beneficial, particularly for those with the heirlooms. The provision, of course, then changes dramatically when you reach level 90. Not only do the waiting times seem to rise, potentially even slightly earlier, the next two past expansions are considered singular which unloads substantially less dungeons than the rest of the game. The 90 to 100, for example, drops to a single dungeon every two levels... Making questing suddenly worthwhile, especially for damage dealers who have longer queues.

Of course, there's the class development. It stops at level 80. That's when pretty much your entire class skills package has been unlocked, and is on your button bars. That means there are effectively FORTY levels about to be worked through, without a single development. Sure, you could include the additional two talents, but two 'choices' over forty levels and no choices over the live expansion? That's extremely poor and smacks of lazy design. Of course, class performance also randomly changes due to the scaling that gets randomly applied as far as the character is concerned. Moving into Warlords drops item quality, as does the live game, which has a nuisance impact on the heirlooms you've piled gold into.

So, to summarize, the majority of the original game is skipped which is a real shame, you can't develop your professions which guts the content's depth, random-queuing for dungeons obliterates the pace of any other content which demands random groups you won't get to know, the dungeon experience then changes dramatically at level 60 which is wholly pointless, class development ends at level 80 which is fundamentally absurd, while the gear scaling changes see your character drop its power for no explicable reason whatsoever.

It's little wonder that new players are being boosted, but that essentially gives them barely any content or experience, makes the achievement screen utterly pointless, provides precious little experience or learning environments, guts other systems (particularly ALL professions) and destroys the means in which that new player can learn some actual lore that'll help them understand why things are happening.

As far as I'm concerned, I think this is potentially the biggest damage to new player retention. There's no way that I can prove that, of course, but there seems a huge pile of issues that would stop anyone from retaining their subscription.

So... Do I have any ideas that might fix this?

Unsurprisingly, I do.

1. First of all, the level number has got to drop. Dramatically. My belief is that the maximum level should be 70... And should always be 70. The original game should reach level 60, with the Cataclysm zones being re-scaled as part of it because they are consistent with its timeline. From here, every expansion should take you from 60 to 70 with the maximum players returning to 60 when a new expansion is released. This reinvigorates the original game itself, recreates the means with which to develop your professions, makes class design much more fulfilling, and keeps dungeons advantageous but not ludicrously so.

2. All expansions, once passed, should be made part of the Caverns of Time. In-game mobs therefore give players a chance to go and experience them at level cap, with all mobs scaled to the level cap... But have large powers removed in order to maintain the cosmetic availability to players. Not only does this remove a HUGE stack of bizarre problems, it gets rid of the item scaling issues, gives players choices, rebuilds the entire story, and lets players choose what they want to be involved in. The choice then becomes the full game to the current expansion, rather than the full game, to Outland/Northrend to Cataclysm/Pandaria, to Draenor, to Legion... So on.

3. Drop the numbers in professions. Honestly, it's gotten silly. We're now in a system that effectively guts the early versions, where there is some really nice cosmetic items, and creates a 'current' level of 150 for the most recent expansion. It removes the depth, the fun and the variability. The original level of 300 is just fine, with the current expansion jumping to 375, and the drops happening with the new expansion the same way character levels do. Suddenly, there's a chance to wholly recreate the depth the systems once had, and even let the system build powerful items that can be competitive given a players expertise. It makes sense, and could relaunch professions. I also support a change to one creation profession, and all collection ones.

4. Heirlooms should be renumbered. The fact that they change, as expansions change, is just a nonsense. And because the character level has been cut in half, there doesn't need to be a 50% to 60% increase. Remove the levels of each heirloom (while returning the gold to the players that spent it), they always work to level 60, and increase your experience to a maximum of 10%. It's a simple one.

5. Item enhancement is removed. It's great when those quest rewards proc into something more powerful, isn't it? Well... No. When you're leveling, it's absolutely and completely pointless. Once you hit the cap, it'll be gotten rid of extremely quickly or, even worse, if you get it too early, then all it'll take is a couple of levels to see it gotten rid of. It could have an impact on enchanters, but it would do nothing for anyone else, so there's effectively no argument, at all, to keep doing this. Personally, I dislike it at level cap, but I understand the intent; I've no intent what it's supposed to be doing for people who are leveling.

6. Fix the PvP reputations. It seems unrelated to this thread, because it is, but the reputation demands have become really needless given the number of battlegrounds that now exist. Rather than having a separate reputation for all of them, or the random no reputation found with a few, group them all up and reduce the number of reputations that the game has linked to PvP. So battlegrounds that are similar should be applied with the same reputation.

7. Drop the maximum of the achievement pane. Given that the entire game, other than the current expansion, is being skipped effectively, the number of achievement points make it a fundamentally broken piece of content. Even if a new player nailed every single one from the current expansion, he or she is absolutely miles behind and will never catch up. Cut the number in half, dramatically reduce the ones that have been needlessly expanded, and then turn current expansion achievements into the pointless rewards when the expansion is replaced. That keeps the achievements for those who earned them, but doesn't count them to make the content so broken.

At this point, there are so many other things I'd like to suggest but a great many of them are more of a level-cap, current-expansion argument so I'll leave them out. Of course, it's also noteworthy to remember that this post is too big for the vast majority of people to read, but maybe a designer will. And lastly, because I reckon new players are now less likely to stay than ever before, buying games that encourage you to skip the overwhelming majority of the game just shouldn't be chased.

That's the start of this thread - what do you guys want to continue with?

I barely played 4 months in the BfA and it is already over for me. The game, the story... it's not very bad but it's not the EPIC adventure I had 12-10y ago.
One can get showered with "epic" and "legendary" items, mounts, titles, achievments whatever but this does not make the game experience epic!

1. and 2. is a really great solution to many core problems with the current WoW iteration which badly needs a fresh restart in order to survive (and yes, of course, I will be checking out Classic)
Honestly, the 2. Caverns of Time idea you got seem is simply brilliant. You should make sure that both 1. and 2. are communicated to Blizzard. Who knows, there might be still some people left who care about their product.

[Trend]

Whoa! I didn't say the playerbase has collapsed because of leveling. Watch that reading comprehension.

YOU: "Level scaling is a strong contender for the worst idea they've ever had. I mean it totally killed my desire to level in wow. I leveled characters quite a lot but I haven't leveled one since scaling was added. I don't even think about it. I go play other games to level that don't have it."

other person: "Sounds like a personal problem, heard plenty of people who like it because they no longer need to deal with stuff like Outland. And it allows people to do zones they maybe usually wouldn't because it's in the same level bracket as a muuuuch more popular zone."

YOU: "What are you talking about? The playerbase has collapsed...."

If you're bad at communicating and you meant to have a different conversation than you did, that's fine, everyone has their weaknesses. But you won't see any personal improvement if you blame others for your own shortcomings.

[stigz]

Gonna be honest, I stopped reading when I saw you complain that LFD is best for leveling and then complain it's worse for leveling at later levels. Pick a lane.

He's right. I recently leveled a holy priest from 1 to 120 and the q's are instant from 1-60 then slowly die off as you get closer to 80-90. It's because the number of dungeons and therefore the quests inside those dungeons (which give huge exp) become scarce, especially in cata. I think I did that fire ogre cave like 30 times, jesus.

It felt really weird because I'd leveled via dungeons in the past and it was super fun but this time it just felt really wonky and like they were discouraging you to level via dungeons.

[Kokolums]

YOU: "Level scaling is a strong contender for the worst idea they've ever had. I mean it totally killed my desire to level in wow. I leveled characters quite a lot but I haven't leveled one since scaling was added. I don't even think about it. I go play other games to level that don't have it."

other person: "Sounds like a personal problem, heard plenty of people who like it because they no longer need to deal with stuff like Outland. And it allows people to do zones they maybe usually wouldn't because it's in the same level bracket as a muuuuch more popular zone."

YOU: "What are you talking about? The playerbase has collapsed...."

If you're bad at communicating and you meant to have a different conversation than you did, that's fine, everyone has their weaknesses. But you won't see any personal improvement if you blame others for your own shortcomings.

Try this:

Me: Its a bad argument to suggest the players like ANYTHING in in WoW right now because the playerbase has collapsed.
You: Kokolums just said the playerbase collapsed due to leveling!

There's this thing called a quote function, where I quote someone and reference it. You then can easily follow the conversation. He talks about people liking something, and I point out that we're seeing a big drop in players which invalidates that line of thinking.

[MasterHamster]

The problem is that players don't want leveling to be fixed, because fixing leveling would mean going away from the 2-3 levels/hour, mindlessly killing mobs without any risk of dying style of gameplay. So the feedback Blizzard gets is that leveling is boring - and needs to be faster. - so we need to become faster - and need less exp to level up - so we reach the "real game" at max level faster. What leveling has become is such an amazing example of how a problem eventually starts to reinforce itself.


We want leveling to be fast and easy because it's boring, but the reason we think it's so boring is because of how fast and easy it is.
It's a feedback loop if I ever saw one. Players just keep asking for the type of changes that makes sure they will always hate leveling, and just want it over with.

[bigbleach]

Okay, so, I finally put together the time to get my Mag'har orc to 110, but it's also allowed me to look at the ridiculous pile of problems that the current "leveling" experience currently has. Here's a short list:

First of all, the actual game itself (rather than expansions) is now almost completely ignored. The scaling of mob levels and experience helps the problem by keeping a single zone appropriate for all of your levels, but what this does is effectively remove three quarters of the original world. If you're random-queuing for dungeons, it will remove even more than this. Not only does this dramatically reduce the encouragement to play a far bigger game than any expansion, it makes basic profession development practically impossible.

Then, of course, there's the random-queuing for dungeons. The opportunity is wildly out of line throughout, as it's not up to you which one you get, which means the potential time-demand can vary dramatically. Despite this frustration (or continually getting the same dungeon), random-queuing for dungeons as a tank or healer is by far the fastest route to level 60, at least. Because of the travelling that general questing requires, random dungeon-running is extraordinarily more beneficial, particularly for those with the heirlooms. The provision, of course, then changes dramatically when you reach level 90. Not only do the waiting times seem to rise, potentially even slightly earlier, the next two past expansions are considered singular which unloads substantially less dungeons than the rest of the game. The 90 to 100, for example, drops to a single dungeon every two levels... Making questing suddenly worthwhile, especially for damage dealers who have longer queues.

Of course, there's the class development. It stops at level 80. That's when pretty much your entire class skills package has been unlocked, and is on your button bars. That means there are effectively FORTY levels about to be worked through, without a single development. Sure, you could include the additional two talents, but two 'choices' over forty levels and no choices over the live expansion? That's extremely poor and smacks of lazy design. Of course, class performance also randomly changes due to the scaling that gets randomly applied as far as the character is concerned. Moving into Warlords drops item quality, as does the live game, which has a nuisance impact on the heirlooms you've piled gold into.

So, to summarize, the majority of the original game is skipped which is a real shame, you can't develop your professions which guts the content's depth, random-queuing for dungeons obliterates the pace of any other content which demands random groups you won't get to know, the dungeon experience then changes dramatically at level 60 which is wholly pointless, class development ends at level 80 which is fundamentally absurd, while the gear scaling changes see your character drop its power for no explicable reason whatsoever.

It's little wonder that new players are being boosted, but that essentially gives them barely any content or experience, makes the achievement screen utterly pointless, provides precious little experience or learning environments, guts other systems (particularly ALL professions) and destroys the means in which that new player can learn some actual lore that'll help them understand why things are happening.

As far as I'm concerned, I think this is potentially the biggest damage to new player retention. There's no way that I can prove that, of course, but there seems a huge pile of issues that would stop anyone from retaining their subscription.

So... Do I have any ideas that might fix this?

Unsurprisingly, I do.

1. First of all, the level number has got to drop. Dramatically. My belief is that the maximum level should be 70... And should always be 70. The original game should reach level 60, with the Cataclysm zones being re-scaled as part of it because they are consistent with its timeline. From here, every expansion should take you from 60 to 70 with the maximum players returning to 60 when a new expansion is released. This reinvigorates the original game itself, recreates the means with which to develop your professions, makes class design much more fulfilling, and keeps dungeons advantageous but not ludicrously so.

2. All expansions, once passed, should be made part of the Caverns of Time. In-game mobs therefore give players a chance to go and experience them at level cap, with all mobs scaled to the level cap... But have large powers removed in order to maintain the cosmetic availability to players. Not only does this remove a HUGE stack of bizarre problems, it gets rid of the item scaling issues, gives players choices, rebuilds the entire story, and lets players choose what they want to be involved in. The choice then becomes the full game to the current expansion, rather than the full game, to Outland/Northrend to Cataclysm/Pandaria, to Draenor, to Legion... So on.

3. Drop the numbers in professions. Honestly, it's gotten silly. We're now in a system that effectively guts the early versions, where there is some really nice cosmetic items, and creates a 'current' level of 150 for the most recent expansion. It removes the depth, the fun and the variability. The original level of 300 is just fine, with the current expansion jumping to 375, and the drops happening with the new expansion the same way character levels do. Suddenly, there's a chance to wholly recreate the depth the systems once had, and even let the system build powerful items that can be competitive given a players expertise. It makes sense, and could relaunch professions. I also support a change to one creation profession, and all collection ones.

4. Heirlooms should be renumbered. The fact that they change, as expansions change, is just a nonsense. And because the character level has been cut in half, there doesn't need to be a 50% to 60% increase. Remove the levels of each heirloom (while returning the gold to the players that spent it), they always work to level 60, and increase your experience to a maximum of 10%. It's a simple one.

5. Item enhancement is removed. It's great when those quest rewards proc into something more powerful, isn't it? Well... No. When you're leveling, it's absolutely and completely pointless. Once you hit the cap, it'll be gotten rid of extremely quickly or, even worse, if you get it too early, then all it'll take is a couple of levels to see it gotten rid of. It could have an impact on enchanters, but it would do nothing for anyone else, so there's effectively no argument, at all, to keep doing this. Personally, I dislike it at level cap, but I understand the intent; I've no intent what it's supposed to be doing for people who are leveling.

6. Fix the PvP reputations. It seems unrelated to this thread, because it is, but the reputation demands have become really needless given the number of battlegrounds that now exist. Rather than having a separate reputation for all of them, or the random no reputation found with a few, group them all up and reduce the number of reputations that the game has linked to PvP. So battlegrounds that are similar should be applied with the same reputation.

7. Drop the maximum of the achievement pane. Given that the entire game, other than the current expansion, is being skipped effectively, the number of achievement points make it a fundamentally broken piece of content. Even if a new player nailed every single one from the current expansion, he or she is absolutely miles behind and will never catch up. Cut the number in half, dramatically reduce the ones that have been needlessly expanded, and then turn current expansion achievements into the pointless rewards when the expansion is replaced. That keeps the achievements for those who earned them, but doesn't count them to make the content so broken.

At this point, there are so many other things I'd like to suggest but a great many of them are more of a level-cap, current-expansion argument so I'll leave them out. Of course, it's also noteworthy to remember that this post is too big for the vast majority of people to read, but maybe a designer will. And lastly, because I reckon new players are now less likely to stay than ever before, buying games that encourage you to skip the overwhelming majority of the game just shouldn't be chased.

That's the start of this thread - what do you guys want to continue with?

The primary issue I have with the leveling system is the gap in skills from 80-120, like you mentioned. However, to players who do not have any heirlooms, the level pacing through quests seems to be pretty reasonable and while you will not complete every zone before level cap, there really isn't a need to do so because that would just take forever. This opens up a fresh second, third, fourth unique 1-60 questing experience, 2 different 60-80, 2 different 80-90, 2-3 different 90-100 ( I don't do any quests from 90-100, I pick up rare loot and do bonus objectives, much quicker ) and 2 different paths for 100-110. The profession change was great, I don't understand why anyone would bother trying to keep up their professions while leveling outside of the current content. The fact they broke it up for each expansion was probably the best change they have ever made to the profession system. You can focus on professions still while you level, its just not efficient. Basically what this comes down to is... if you want a longer experience while leveling, do not use heirlooms. New players won't have them, they will have many options to choose from for their leveling path. Experienced players do not want this to take any longer than it has to, but you can make your experience take longer by simply not partaking in dungeons or using heirlooms.

I would like them to add something for us to gain from 80-110 outside of just talents. That is a downer, but I'd prefer to just skip that bracket all together., bu that is just me.

[Hiromant]

The title badly needs TO BE fixed.

[dwarfeckiy]

The more i read this, the more it felt like a very well-written shitpost.

The points contradict with one-another,

effectively remove three quarters of the original world.
@
All expansions, once passed, should be made part of the Caverns of Time.

The points have no actual examples attached to them,

Of course, class performance also randomly changes
@
the gear scaling changes see your character drop its power

And some statements are plain idiotic.

Then, of course, there's the random-queuing for dungeons. The opportunity is wildly out of line throughout, as it's not up to you which one you get, which means the potential time-demand can vary dramatically.

I just loved this one. It's called RANDOM for a reason smh. And the best part about the whole thing is this:

As far as I'm concerned, I think this is potentially the biggest damage to new player retention. There's no way that I can prove that, of course

Maybe next time you will be thoughtful of your attempts to summarize and present issues leveling has, rather just do on-spot shitposting.

So let's run through your propositions real quick, mkay:

1 & 2: What exactly will happen, three quarters of the game will still be ignored, except it will be other side of a spectrum (aka expansions) this time around. Instead of removing problems here, you are making new ones. How do you make transition between expansions this way? How do you even make player waste their time going there?(Rewards btw) Should players be allowed to choose where and when to go, or should player be forced to do content in a certain order? What about transportation between major cities from diffenet expansions? I can go on and on, hope you get the idea.

3: My dude, profession don't exist there for "cosmetic" items. And they never did (during their relevant time ofcourse). The current system handles most issues with numbers very nicely and it doesn't need to be reverted. Right now you can level what you specifically need without having to get 700 points of worthless shit to get to what you need.
What will happen exactly if you revert it and drop numbers by, let's say, half is you are gonna get slapped with variety of recipes each from different expansions requiring different materials from different expansions. Good luck dealing with that shitshow.

4: Why cutting exp bonus on heirlooms when you can tune amount of exp required for each level? Why overcomplicate this? Oh btw, heirlooms will be always more powerful even w/o stats, cause no other gear provides exp bonus. Simple as that.

5: Give us at least one example of item enchancement in content prior to introduction of this feature. It's isn't there to make your character stronger btw, it is there to make you feel better about yourself. Just saying.

6: Yay, let's trivialize one thing left untouched in this game. Cause it's so hard to do BGs these days right.

7: No one cares about ach. points. It doesn't even remotely matter to anyone how much a.p. you have.

Just wait for Classic to come out, see how inconvinient and time-consuming it is (awesome storytelling too lol), and review this mess you have here. WoW is beyond the point when leveling should be a major part of a game.

[sam86]

TBH, leveling is the least of our worries right now.

agree, lvling is at worst an annoying buzz/sting

[Soon-TM]

agree, lvling is at worst an annoying buzz/sting

Yeah, but at the same time it's your presentation card for new players, and it frankly blows. So, unless Blizz has completely given away on the matter of getting new players, they should fix it. And no, the free boost is a lame bandaid at best.

[Pua]

1) The number of levels don't matter, it's the exp between levels that matters. 1 level that takes 10k exp is equivalent to 10 levels that take 1k exp each. In reality, it sounds like there's just too much experience to go from 1 to 120.

2) Timewalking?

3) Professions are fine, though, I liked the old system more than the new system.

4) Again, reducing the heirloom bonus only works if you reduce total exp and only really benefits new players. (As in it levels the playing field between new and old players.)

5) Is actually a boon for leveling.

6) No.

7) No.

Okay, quickly:

1) The number of levels DOES matter, and I explain why. Multiple times.

2) Timewalking isn't a good idea, in my view, because that limits when players can access old content such as Wrath or Mists - that's not what anyone wants.

3) Read why it's a problem, and try to understand it. Compared to professions that had specializations until Wrath (where it was heavily deadened), it's absolutely miles behind; even the Legion upgrades have been binned in this daft expansion.

4) The idea is to make the heirlooms roughly the same, but reducing the numbers is purely to appreciate the lower number of levels.

5) It really isn't. It does practically nothing meaningful, particularly if your upgrade is one of your heirloom pieces.

The advantages in 6) and 7) are explained, obvious, and stop anyone from losing anything. They're easy wins. NOT doing them is because you imagine yourself as a designer who couldn't be arsed doing a really small job.

The more i read this, the more it felt like a very well-written shitpost.

Haha.

Your entire 'response' just grossly misunderstood what's being said. You make arguments that fundamentally misunderstand the entirety of a spot, which essentially means you've not been playing World of Warcraft for very long.

You'll say you have been, but I know you haven't.

Peace.

[dwarfeckiy]

You can't make your points clear, therefore you are being misunderstood a lot. Don't blame others for that.

You didn't make any examples to validate your points either, nor did you make em to counter mine.

Claiming bs like "i know you didn't play much" is just a cherry on top. Why even bother starting a discussion if you can't keep your shit together?

[In Ogres We Trust]

Leveling is an issue, because instead of reusing current zones, they're adding new zones on a constant basis, e.g. Mechagon.