If you play addon free dont join group activity

[Deleted]

You're not very good at following a conversation.
a) Worse than other comps.
b) An example of people who have played said comp on LAN.
c) Learn to follow a conversation.
d) Everyone tracks their own DRs, and communicate with one another. Communication > addons (which, coincidentally, is the purpose of why they're disallowed, because it absolves the need to communicate as much. You can see that simply when they listen in during tournaments to the teams).
e) Someone disagreeing with you and saying you're wrong, isn't trolling just because you lack basic argumentative ability. Gj on the Whaazz find, shame I didn't list him as someone who doesn't use addons. Matter of fact, the two people I listed were Hydra and Reckful. Try again.

How does monitoring your DPS throughout combat make you play better? Do you look and think 'Im behind top DPS by X amount' and change your rotation and try things different? If you're any good at the game, you should know your set rotation for your given class and be pushing to give it your all regardless and alot of the time without thinking. Your argument for 'you should be looking at meters and pushing harder' is just as much BS as the rest of your arguments/OPINIONS. Like someone previously said, well done for getting me to reply twice, wont waste my time again. With a bit of luck you'll be like your name and silenced soon for the absolute dribble you continue to post

[Daevelian]

So the next step up from here would be requesting people install bots to play for them, yeah?

Ditch the training wheels already and git gud.

[Narzok]

the tools don't make the master

have addons - be bad
have addons - be good
don't have addons - be bad
don't have addons - be good

all 4 of those are possible.

this threat perfectly highlights the problem that plagues any and all games that force people to work together for individual benefit: as soon as 1 person wants to do more than needed, everyone else become "slackers" and "hold back the group".

imagine a competition where you need a group to finish 4 individual races within 4 minutes. no bonus for faster clear times
person 1 finishes within 30 seconds
person 2 in 58 seconds
person 3 in 45 seconds
person 4 in 70 seconds

normal people would argue that only person 4 is bad, because the time should have been under 60 seconds.
but no! everyone aside from person 1 is a "noob" because there was someone better than them.

[Magical Mudcrab]

Hey so if you are one of those people who say you are old school and don't use addons - please stop joining group activity.

This is gonna be good.

I had a Main Tank in a progression guild who refused to download a single addon.

Were raid addons mandatory? If not, the problem isn't the tank, it's the raid rules you don't like. If addons aren't mandatory, then they aren't mandatory.

Every boss he would just randomly walk into the boss with no prior warning. We never got to prepot. I ended up fighting him after several weeks of this and he gquit mid raid due to his refusal to get an addon. On top of this he was always taunting incorrectly and missing very basic things due to being "oldschool".

Not getting in a prepot isn't the end of the world, the only thing it's really used for now is parses. The time it saves is insignificant. And while countdown is always a good thing, that issue combined with the fact that he was having difficulty with taunt timing it sounds like you were more concerned with addons than you were with helping the tank learn. Overall, it comes off as you being a massively abusive raid member.

I now have a policy that if anyone pulls without a timer I just remove them. Be that a tank ilvl 390. Doing a 10 sec timer SAVES TIME because 20 people open properly, that's more dps = faster boss kill.

If it's your raid, it's your rules; however, if you bend the rules and allow people in your raids, such as that tank, who you know won't use addons, then you lose the right to complain.

Basic requirement should be > a damage / heal metre > dbm / bigwigs. If you can't do that then you are just letting down every person you encounter in groups.

If you require addons to be able to raid (non-Mythic) effectively, you're a bad player.
If you require your raid to have addons to properly raid lead, you're a bad leader.

[Deleted]

the tools don't make the master

have addons - be bad
have addons - be good
don't have addons - be bad
don't have addons - be good

all 4 of those are possible.

this threat perfectly highlights the problem that plagues any and all games that force people to work together for individual benefit: as soon as 1 person wants to do more than needed, everyone else become "slackers" and "hold back the group".

imagine a competition where you need a group to finish 4 individual races within 4 minutes. no bonus for faster clear times
person 1 finishes within 30 seconds
person 2 in 58 seconds
person 3 in 45 seconds
person 4 in 70 seconds

normal people would argue that only person 4 is bad, because the time should have been under 60 seconds.
but no! everyone aside from person 1 is a "noob" because there was someone better than them.

You! I like you! That's exactly what i wanted to mention but i had no words for it.

[Mixxy]

Again... some of us are able to figure these things out without giant flashing icons and crap. They teach basic timekeeping in elementary school, its not hard.

And again, it's not about how hard it is. You're absolutely bloody blinkered if you honestly think you can keep track of cooldowns, boss ability timers and stacks better than a literal fucking computer.

Take Zek'Voz for example. If you're tanking that, and you're even a second late on your taunt, the other tank is dead. No ifs, ands, or buts.


It's a simple fact that higher-end raiding, for years and years, has been balanced with mods like DBM in mind. The fights are literally designed around you using mods.
To be raiding without mods, just because you can, is exactly the same as raiding with Cloth pants as a Boomkin, just because you can.

Deliberately playing badly is still playing badly. And if you're doing fights like Mythrax and G'huun without a range finder, especially if you're melee, you're playing fucking badly.

[Lord Pebbleton]

Is disagreeing with every OP on every subject in every thread the new popular thing? I remember a similar thread a couple years ago, and everyone suggesting that addons were expendable, were utterly torn to pieces and called out as bad players. I guess everyone got infinitely better at the game and now have addons implanted in their brains?
We get it, you are so good you can kill mythic G'huun without addons (lel). But WHY the fuck would you do it. And even if you had the most plausible reason in the world, the OP is about a tank that was too lazy to use addons, not that he was too good to use them. So this thread isn't for you.
If we want to argue semantics: you don't NEED them, but they are free, beneficial and helpful, so you SHOULD use them, as there is no reason not to.

[Mixxy]

I understand this aspect quite well, but let's not pretend the OP does.
And i'm saying this based on his/her responses. IMHO; damage meters should be off during an encounter as they most often only serve as a distraction during one.
Analysis should be done before and after the encounter, but never during it.

I agree. There's literally no reason to be looking at damage meters mid-fight.

[Deleted]

addons or not, an interesting topic.

while i do love certain addons and use quite a few i cant help wonder how the "game" would feel if it were totally free of addons.

I'm an oldschool player and i mean that i've been playing waaay long before world of warcraft even appeared and i remember vividly how everyone used to call programs not incorporated in the "game" cheats., its when wow was announced that blizzard explicitly said it would be cheat free, and thats when they started calling them addons.

Now before you crucify me, i do agree that a lot of addons make the "game" more enjoyable, but in the end its kinda weird that when you buy a "game" you are being forced to download a whole train of addons to be taken seriously, it makes the "game" all but equal for players. some people are not that skilled in roaming internet on sometimes shady sites.

same goes for macro's really, i totally love some of mine but lets be honest, not everyone can make or even find macro's as easy as the next guy with programming skills.

back in my young time we used to call these programs outside of the game unfair advantages, so you see we've come a long way since then.

[Clozer]

it's like 19 people tryin to get to the finish line with a bike and then there is this special one walking and hindering the whole group - just kick him for real.

[Mixxy]

Lol. Raiding = hitting a button sequence while dodging repetative patterns. Who the fuck needs an addon for that.

Let's change the title: if you need addons to tell you what to do because you fail at reading boss strategy and are so glaze eyed you dont see big red /green / purple markers on the floor, stay out of groups. Also who cares about prepotting to put out a 100 dps more. You a mythic raider? No. Stop acting like one.

Wow that's a whole lot of ad hominem in just one post.

Also:
"Look at me, mah! I'm better at pattern-recognition and counting exact seconds better than an actual, literal computer!"

[bigbleach]

Hey so if you are one of those people who say you are old school and don't use addons - please stop joining group activity. I had a Main Tank in a progression guild who refused to download a single addon. Every boss he would just randomly walk into the boss with no prior warning. We never got to prepot. I ended up fighting him after several weeks of this and he gquit mid raid due to his refusal to get an addon. On top of this he was always taunting incorrectly and missing very basic things due to being "oldschool".

I now have a policy that if anyone pulls without a timer I just remove them. Be that a tank ilvl 390. Doing a 10 sec timer SAVES TIME because 20 people open properly, that's more dps = faster boss kill.

Basic requirement should be > a damage / heal metre > dbm / bigwigs. If you can't do that then you are just letting down every person you encounter in groups.

I think a lot of people in the thread think you mean group content in general, which I would personally disagree with. Raiding, absolutely. GTFO if you, at the very least, do not have fucking DBM or some boss mod. Not using addons in a raid environment is similar to an antivaxxer relying on herd immunity for their children. Other people keeping track of shit an announcing it over coms because they can't be bothered to have it available on their screen. All addons are on twitch... they auto install within 6 seconds. I really don't get why people don't use the tools available to them. Nubs will be nubs though.

[Niwes]

lol. i think op met one of that „special persons“ with some form of obsessive-compulsive disorder that are a bit too much on the „keep it small and beautiful“ (a linux community based term) train

if someone wether use at least DBM (or maybe bigwigs) AND not even is able to use a pull timer or get his stuff right without using addons, in ANY form of competitive raiding, even if it is HC on some form of „niveau“, .... well then this guy is an idiot and i had kicked him exactly like op did.

so, i really can understand the op. stuff like that is a waste of time and just cause raid drama and can destroy a roster that otherwise would could fun with playing the game. with no doubt i had kicked that idiot too. and i am a wow player since vanilla day 1, aka „oldschool“, by myself.

[Mixxy]

So the next step up from here would be requesting people install bots to play for them, yeah?

Ditch the training wheels already and git gud.

And the next step down from not using addons would be not even watching the screen while you raid, right?

I mean if you're not gonna do the best you can, why even bother shooting for 80%? Just auto-attack, alt tab, and let those scrubs with their training wheels carry you. They basically already are.

[foreversilenced]

I don't need to specifically stare at the dps metre. It is neatly on my screen not in the way and I'm very good at focusing whilst multiple addons are running all over my screen. Details is amazing for seeing who is doing what. Specifics. When people tell you they didn't die to lasher on Zek and you can 1 button print out to raid that yes they did - amazing. When you are on ZUL and someone is cheesing 50k dps but their actual dmg to zul is under 1 mil. It's great printing that stuff out + also being able to immediately fix the problem. You can see it all at a glance.

I love being able to see who lusted and who used bres. Yes raids wipe when these 2 things are misused and if you run 0 addons you will never find out who is doing it. How do you stop it being done if you can not call out who is doing it?

People within here have admitted they couldn't kill Archimonde without the use of addons at the same time as saying they don't need addons. Hey guy ... think about this, if the addon helped you kill Archimonde that 1 time --- imagine what else you could be improving on by using a useful tool. You are being ignorant by not keeping up to scratch on all basics of the game while playing within a group.

Having 0 addons is extremely ignorant and please do not try to pretend you keep track of everything immaculately like an addon can. You aren't proving anything by not using them, besides how stupid you are.

Forgot to mention dispels. Yeah when you have priests in your group who don't cast mass dispel ever. Or like me on Mythrax heroic the other day when we were wiping to lack of heals and I could feel something was wrong. I take a look and 1 disc priests top heal is shadow mend. Both disc priest had virtually 0 atonement heals. They both had no clue how to play and it took me 5 seconds to see that. I actually looked at it during fight and decided if we wiped they were getting replaced. I kicked the moment we wiped and replaced and we got it next pull.

How do you monitor this with no addons? Lets not pretend these people who cant even dbm countdown are livelogging and analysing their logs. That would defeat the no-addon purpose.

In PVP I turn my details to overall and dispels. Upon finishing if any healer hasn't dispelled I remove them. How do you see all this without addons good sir? Answer is you don't, so you miss out and everyone you group with misses out.

[Daevelian]

And the next step down from not using addons would be not even watching the screen while you raid, right?

I mean if you're not gonna do the best you can, why even bother shooting for 80%? Just auto-attack, alt tab, and let those scrubs with their training wheels carry you. They basically already are.

Or you could, you know, watch and do the actual fight itself?

But you know what? screw challenge runs, screw things like link to the past randomiser, screw playing through dark souls at level 1 while naked and using nothing but your fists. 100% optimal efficiency is what you need, anything less and you are a subhuman piece of trash right?

Raiders like you are the reason the raiding scene in WoW has become a colossal joke.

[vsb]

Hey so if you are one of those people who say you are old school and don't use addons - please stop joining group activity. I had a Main Tank in a progression guild who refused to download a single addon. Every boss he would just randomly walk into the boss with no prior warning. We never got to prepot. I ended up fighting him after several weeks of this and he gquit mid raid due to his refusal to get an addon. On top of this he was always taunting incorrectly and missing very basic things due to being "oldschool".

I now have a policy that if anyone pulls without a timer I just remove them. Be that a tank ilvl 390. Doing a 10 sec timer SAVES TIME because 20 people open properly, that's more dps = faster boss kill.

Basic requirement should be > a damage / heal metre > dbm / bigwigs. If you can't do that then you are just letting down every person you encounter in groups.

While I don't have anything against other people using addons for their personal needs, at this point I think the game would be better off without any addons. I hope that they'll be disabled in the future. If someone requires using addons from other people, it means that the game is fundamentally broken. I'm an old school hardcore mythic raider and I'm raiding without addons. Our tanks equipped with all the addons in the world are consistently failing to pull a boss in time. Some of our raiders are playing like aircraft pilots surrounded by millions of meters and weak auras and other stuff, yet they fail to execute simple mechanics. WoW is designed to be played without addons, they are absolutely not necessary. Now those players who have strange demands, please stop joining group activity, you're the ones who ruining this game.

[Kerathul]

I legit snorted

- - - Updated - - -



Are you in the top 5-10% of raid guilds? Then it doesn't matter. Stop stressing over perfection when you're not even in the race.

That caught my eye, https://www.worldofwargraphs.com/glo...category-15286

You can see how many % of the level 120s out there have killed certain bosses, and you come to realise how quickly you go near 5%. As of yesterday only 3.8% killed Fetid. And only 0.8% of the 120s killed G'huun.

So you are very quickly in that 5-10% playerbase if you raid mythic content nowadays.

[MrExcelion]

I don't need to specifically stare at the dps metre. It is neatly on my screen not in the way and I'm very good at focusing whilst multiple addons are running all over my screen. Details is amazing for seeing who is doing what. Specifics. When people tell you they didn't die to lasher on Zek and you can 1 button print out to raid that yes they did - amazing. When you are on ZUL and someone is cheesing 50k dps but their actual dmg to zul is under 1 mil. It's great printing that stuff out + also being able to immediately fix the problem. You can see it all at a glance.

I love being able to see who lusted and who used bres. Yes raids wipe when these 2 things are misused and if you run 0 addons you will never find out who is doing it. How do you stop it being done if you can not call out who is doing it?

People within here have admitted they couldn't kill Archimonde without the use of addons at the same time as saying they don't need addons. Hey guy ... think about this, if the addon helped you kill Archimonde that 1 time --- imagine what else you could be improving on by using a useful tool. You are being ignorant by not keeping up to scratch on all basics of the game while playing within a group.

Having 0 addons is extremely ignorant and please do not try to pretend you keep track of everything immaculately like an addon can. You aren't proving anything by not using them, besides how stupid you are.

I want to highlight my reply to you about an hour ago: this is something that you should discuss with the guild's leadership. They make their own individual guidelines for the guild to follow. It's up to them whether to enforce addons or not. If you're in charge of the guild, then just lay it out clearly for them. If it's for pugging, put it in the description. There's nothing out of the ordinary about what you're asking (using addons), but be clear about it so you don't have a case like that tank you alluded to.

[WintersLegion]

Honestly sounds more fun to me to do raids oldschool style. All this obsession with downing bosses perfectly, every time. The joy of hilarious wipes gone.

Raiders these days are spoiled.

That would be fine if you are with a group that wants to do it that way but if your joining a normal group you should either do it with the addon's or already know the fight well enough to do it with out addons.