The Horde has been hijacked by cartoon villains

[Deleted]

Orcs were generally dim-witted, sadistic, generically evil fodder for a faceless Dark Lord. In contrast, Warcraft Orcs had once been much the same, but had since freed themselves of the influence of their Dark Lord and sought to redeem themselves and create a brighter future for their people.

The Orcs weren't exactly peace-loving hippies even before the demonic corruption took a hold of them. The vast majority of them have always been colossal jerks.

[Friendlyimmolation]

The Orcs weren't exactly peace-loving hippies even before the demonic corruption took a hold of them. The vast majority of them have always been colossal jerks.

Peace loving hippy wasn't an option if you were raised on Draenor, hell it's not even an option on Azeroth.

[Kwento]

The Orcs weren't exactly peace-loving hippies even before the demonic corruption took a hold of them. The vast majority of them have always been colossal jerks.

When compared to their neighbors, orcs might very well be considered Draenor’s version of hippies.

[Jastall]

Garrosh did a little more than simply go “hey band together and be the iron horde because I said so” he used the shard of time to show the future to Grom, showing the orcs drinking the fel blood and eventually their lives as prisoners in camps. He showed nothing of thrall or the frost wolves and murdered the shaman that would have told Grom otherwise.

And that's enough to make one ask questions, but the Orcs just immediately decided this guy who comes out of nowhere and has all these conveniently accurate visions is 100% trustworthy while the Draenei who have been doing sweet fuck-all for centuries are secretly genocidal mass murderers, and thus said Orcs totally have to genocidally mass murder them first.

At least send some scouts/spies to see what the hell is going on before spazzing out and going full Iron Horde, or something. I get that the story must move on, but it really does make the Orcs look like gullible dunces just looking for an excuse to start the murder spree. To say nothing of how lolevil the Iron Horde was portrayed in WoD, making any attempt to garner sympathy by saying they were trying to protect their future very hard to swallow when they treated even fellow Orcs as potential enemies to be butchered if they didn't bend the knee.

[cparle87]

For some reason you take her every word for absolute truth. As if no NPC ever speaks lies, speaks something he doesn't really know about, speaks something that is easily proven false in future or speaks something from his own point of view. WoD orcs are murderous fucktards even without Gul'dan, if you've missed the story. Everything they've done up to HFC, including yet another invasion to Azeroth and yet another backstab of Draenei was of their own free will. Only you ignore game lore here.

Boo-fucking-hoo, evil Light Police tyrants with their evil laws and evil order don't allow good chaotic murdershits to remain good stupid bitches and want to punish them. By curing them of murdershitism and then joining forces! Cry me a river about this harsh punishment.

If you have bad memory, we're talking about faction which according to "in-game lore":
* Conquered Highmaul gave them an "offer" to either give up all their magical secrets or be genocided (not that I love Ogres much, but I don't like genocide either)
* Made same generous "offer" to its own clans - Shadowmoon was told to forget about astrology, death-speaking and prophecy and provide some battle magic or be exterminated. Not for opposing Iron Horde, but for being useless. This pushed Ner'zhul 1) away from his mate and 2) made his soul consumed by void so bad, even Velen couldn't help him.
* Didn't had any problem with abusing dark naaru (We proud orcz, hate fel, void is ok though!)
* ...and finally proven that they will do everything just to stay murdershits by drinking demon blood anyway when things gone bad for them!

Yeah, those good and straight members of society deserve ten times to be left alone and unchecked.

Even those who rejected Iron Horde are either family killers or raving lunatics. And even post IH they've already managed to eradicate Primals, turning entire Gorgrond into desert and STILL keep Ogres as slaves.

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Too bad WoD shown us that their "roots" isn't any different to their supposed "fel craze".

Aw... Why I'm blaming everything on WoD? Every. Fucking. Expansion. Post-Cataclysm. When Orcs were long past their demon influence shown us again and again that "orc see - orc kill" or "orc see - orc plunder" is the only thoughts in their empty boneheads. With very very few exceptions, almost always related to influence from Alliance-race individual.

Except the point you're ignoring is that we have NEVER seen the orcs during peacetime. All that stuff you're talking about is them in full on "prepare for war there's someone out there who we KNOW is going to corrupt, enslave, and kill us" mode.

As for the ogres, they enslaved the orcs for centuries and were only fought back a mere 200 years before the story and they have never given up trying to reconquer Draenor. Making them supplicate the first time you have power is just smart business.

They knew fel would lead them to the fate Garrosh showed them. Any other power was pretty much on the table. Remember Garrosh slaughtering the entire population of the Cleft of Shadows in SoO.

"Boo-fucking-hoo, evil Light Police tyrants with their evil laws and evil order don't allow good chaotic murdershits to remain good stupid bitches and want to punish them. By curing them of murdershitism and then joining forces! Cry me a river about this harsh punishment."

Glad to know you approve of brainwashing and the removal of free will. Better go all Justice Lords and lobotomize the entire population to make sure they behave.

[rowaasr13]

Except the point you're ignoring is that we have NEVER seen the orcs during peacetime. All that stuff you're talking about is them in full on "prepare for war there's someone out there who we KNOW is going to corrupt, enslave, and kill us" mode.

Because there's NEVER peace mode for Orcs. "- Evul Alliance will conquer you in the end! Kill them! - Hmm, that sounds like good idea, Dark Lady." It's always "someone out there" - "evil draenei", "evil too peaceful other Orcs", "evil people who resist us when we invade their world", so Orcs are always "preparing" by murdering everyone and taking their stuff. Ignoring lore again, eh?

Glad to know you approve of brainwashing and the removal of free will. Better go all Justice Lords and lobotomize the entire population to make sure they behave.

Glad to know you approve of shitting on any kind of psychological treatment. Maybe you should go on crusade against anti-depresants, sleep pills and stuff like that - "wah, it's brainwashing, they COMPELLING me to change behavior, muh free willz".

Kor'gall doesn't look lobotomized to me. None of exarchs either. Lothraxion is very obviously clearly thinking. And I eagerly hope we WILL see Exarch Hellscream doing something badass and glorious.

[cparle87]

Because there's NEVER peace mode for Orcs. "- Evul Alliance will conquer you in the end! Kill them! - Hmm, that sounds like good idea, Dark Lady." It's always "someone out there" - "evil draenei", "evil too peaceful other Orcs", "evil people who resist us when we invade their world", so Orcs are always "preparing" by murdering everyone and taking their stuff. Ignoring lore again, eh?

Glad to know you approve of shitting on any kind of psychological treatment. Maybe you should go on crusade against anti-depresants, sleep pills and stuff like that - "wah, it's brainwashing, they COMPELLING me to change behavior, muh free willz".

Kor'gall doesn't look lobotomized to me. None of exarchs either. Lothraxion is very obviously clearly thinking. And I eagerly hope we WILL see Exarch Hellscream doing something badass and glorious.

Have you ever listened to Lothraxxion or any of the other Army of the Light leaders when they're fighting? Or the AU draenei? There's at the same level of fanatacism as the Scarlet Crusade was. Which was basically, join if we want you to, or die. Add in Xe'ra trying to convert Illidan BY FORCE, and you have an ugly picture that the Light has the potential to be just as evil as the void or the fel. Except it'll have you thinking you're the good guy and everyone else is evil.

By the way, claiming there's never a peace mode for an entire species when we've been observing them for merely 40 years or so in lore is simple ignorance. Some aliens could've come down and watched us for the 40 year period between 1910 and 1950 and came to the same conclusion you did. That the entire species is murderous psychopaths who kill for killing. The orcs got alone fine with one another on Draenor, and even traded with the draenei on occasion.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Because there's NEVER peace mode for Orcs. "- Evul Alliance will conquer you in the end! Kill them! - Hmm, that sounds like good idea, Dark Lady." It's always "someone out there" - "evil draenei", "evil too peaceful other Orcs", "evil people who resist us when we invade their world", so Orcs are always "preparing" by murdering everyone and taking their stuff. Ignoring lore again, eh?

Glad to know you approve of shitting on any kind of psychological treatment. Maybe you should go on crusade against anti-depresants, sleep pills and stuff like that - "wah, it's brainwashing, they COMPELLING me to change behavior, muh free willz".

Kor'gall doesn't look lobotomized to me. None of exarchs either. Lothraxion is very obviously clearly thinking. And I eagerly hope we WILL see Exarch Hellscream doing something badass and glorious.

"Why don't the orcs want to be forcefully converted by the light? SkreeeeeE!"

None of your comparisons work, and come off as a un-educated, poorly made comparison to give the lightbound some moral justification to continue to forcefully convert people, a better comparison would be forcing drugs on people to make them more compliant. Brainwashing is still brainwashing, even if you talk "logically" after it happens.

Also, once again, since things need to be repeated for you. A good war shows how the Horde feels, there are several mentions of orcs being anxious, waiting for the Alliance to attack them. They don't want to be conquered, and the only way to do that post legion is to cripple the Alliance so it can't. You can thank Anduin for handling Genn in the worst way possible to completely remove any trust the Horde would have of the Alliance not to attack them when their back is turned.

[Syegfryed]

This is what happened when you shove the undeads into the horde, when they should be their own faction, then you put the elves, slowly this nu-horde playerbase would increase and demand more and more, now their are "the face" of the horde, and not the founding races anymore, you know they fuck up when an undead elf become warchief. i rly doubt if they can fix this shit

Rather being a bad guy, than being a sidekick with zero representation.

i rather have no representation and being sidekick than get the entire lore of the faction fucked up lmao, legion was perfect, no horde representation, no horde lore,but then, no bad lore, no characters lobotomized

[Grazrug]

This is what happened when you shove the undeads into the horde, when they should be their own faction, then you put the elves, slowly this nu-horde playerbase would increase and demand more and more, now their are "the face" of the horde, and not the founding races anymore, you know they fuck up when an undead elf become warchief. i rly doubt if they can fix this shit



i rather have no representation and being sidekick than get the entire lore of the faction fucked up lmao, legion was perfect, no horde representation, no horde lore,but then, no bad lore, no characters lobotomized

Speak for yourself. No Horde lore means we take orders from Alliance super heroes while they still trashtalk us. Legion was a crapshow. It's finally over. Only alliance mains can take joy in such a story.

[Mehrunes]

This is what happened when you shove the undeads into the horde, when they should be their own faction, then you put the elves, slowly this nu-horde playerbase would increase and demand more and more, now their are "the face" of the horde, and not the founding races anymore, you know they fuck up when an undead elf become warchief. i rly doubt if they can fix this shit

Because your preferred "I can't deal with change" Old Horde-nostalgia Orcs first nationalism Horde embodied by Garrosh was so much better in this department.

[slime]

Hey .. just like the people that choose to play them in real life!

[Evilfish]

This is what happened when you shove the undeads into the horde, when they should be their own faction, then you put the elves, slowly this nu-horde playerbase would increase and demand more and more, now their are "the face" of the horde, and not the founding races anymore, you know they fuck up when an undead elf become warchief. i rly doubt if they can fix this shit



i rather have no representation and being sidekick than get the entire lore of the faction fucked up lmao, legion was perfect, no horde representation, no horde lore,but then, no bad lore, no characters lobotomized

It's because of undead and elves the Horde became an faction, because turns out, orcs, cows and trolls weren't that popular to carry an entire faction and before belfs, neither were the undead.

I hear this crap from often, shame none of you who shit this out ever actually do any thinking before taking the shit. But it wouldn't be the Horde without shit talking poor-old-ragass Old Horde veteran wannabes.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Hey .. just like the people that choose to play them in real life!

@Zulkhan, behold the hilarity continues.

[Dagoth Ur]

Hey .. just like the people that choose to play them in real life!

I've also heard that there's a very big chance that if you like Sylvanas, you'll end up as criminal irl. It's just something about how those people's brain is wired up.

Thank god I chose our treasure as character to relate to!

[rowaasr13]

None of your comparisons work

You'd better say: "None of your comparisons adhere to my personal preferences of squealing at anarchistic brutal selfish edgelords who I consider paragons of being 'free'" - that'd be much closer to truth.

IRL delinquents and criminals are subject to treatment too. Orcs' was long overdue.

orcs being anxious, waiting for the Alliance to attack them. They don't want to be conquered, and the only way to do that post legion is to cripple the Alliance so it can't.

And this fucktarded paranoia mixed with their inherent brutality is exactly why the treatment is absolutely necessary. Well excuse me for praising Doctor Yrel for doing her job.

"Alliance will conquer us!" - is shitardery. It never did that before in many years.
"Orcs will conquer us! (and thus need some solution, with treatment being softest possible)" - is hard truth. They did that already. MANY times.

[Friendlyimmolation]

You'd better say: "None of your comparisons adhere to my personal preferences of squealing at anarchistic brutal selfish edgelords who I consider paragons of being 'free'" - that'd be much closer to truth.

IRL delinquents and criminals are subject to treatment too. Orcs' was long overdue.

And this fucktarded paranoia mixed with their inherent brutality is exactly why the treatment is absolutely necessary. Well excuse me for praising Doctor Yrel for doing her job.

"Alliance will conquer us!" - is shitardery. It never did that before in many years.
"Orcs will conquer us! (and thus need some solution, with treatment being softest possible)" - is hard truth. They did that already. MANY times.

You managed to miss the point unsurprisingly yet again, color me surprised.

They have NEVER trusted the Alliance, and why would they? The purge of Dalaran, Genn greymane, Ashran hell even before that all the way back in vanilla you have the dwarves moving into Alterac.

The Alliance always in the Horde's eyes is stabbing them in the back with one hand while a the same time trying to offer peace with the other, only idiots in their eyes would trust them. And now you'd have idiots wanting to lightforge them somehow doing anything other than pissing the orcs off even more?

Sure you lightforge a few orcs, you've managed to make the Horde possibly trust you even less then it ever did, you better hope you win the war or they will kill every single last one of you now because they see what you're doing and won't let it happen.

The Alliance "conquered them" in the second war, and to the average orc every single war after feels as if the Alliance is testing them to try to do it again.

Brainwashing is not treatment, nor does it make you a good guy just because you've been brainwashed by a windchime.

The only fucktard is yrel and her entire posy for thinking that brainwashing an entire race and her own was the best way to peace, know who wanted to do that but with undeath instead of light? Can't remember his name, had a glowy sword, got killed by a bunch of raiders...

since you seem so wrapped up in your opinion, I'll throw in a tiny reminder that in real life, the people who brainwash or try to brainwash their prisoners and delinquents are not considered good guys.

[Torrasque]

The Horde is based in cartoon villians... Gul'dan, Blackhand, Doomhammer, Garrosh, Sylvanas... All of them have been cartoonishly evil...

[Syegfryed]

Because your preferred "I can't deal with change" Old Horde-nostalgia Orcs first nationalism Horde embodied by Garrosh was so much better in this department.

funny how you always bring Garrosh like matter in this subject, or even like Sylvanas horde is somehow better in something

you talk about others not dealing with change but the singly mention of another undead leader is enough to make all of you lose your shit.

Make the horde a red scourge is a bad and retarded change, should not be done or encouraged

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Speak for yourself. No Horde lore means we take orders from Alliance super heroes while they still trashtalk us. Legion was a crapshow. It's finally over. Only alliance mains can take joy in such a story.

i rather that, than have retarded horde "heroes" bossing you around, or characters being lobotomized like Rexxar

It's because of undead and elves the Horde became an faction

no not rly, they were already a faction, since warcraft 1, with no elves around

because turns out, orcs, cows and trolls weren't that popular to carry an entire faction and before belfs, neither were the undead.

only elves fixed that problem, not undeads

I hear this crap from often, shame none of you who shit this out ever actually do any thinking before taking the shit. But it wouldn't be the Horde without shit talking poor-old-ragass Old Horde veteran wannabes.

??? so? just because they are more playable don't mean they should overcome all other races and change the faction with a 180° with shit lore, things were pretty fine until WoD, it didn't do this nonsense to pamper elves and undead players

[Deleted]

Have you ever listened to Lothraxxion or any of the other Army of the Light leaders when they're fighting? Or the AU draenei? There's at the same level of fanatacism as the Scarlet Crusade was. Which was basically, join if we want you to, or die. Add in Xe'ra trying to convert Illidan BY FORCE, and you have an ugly picture that the Light has the potential to be just as evil as the void or the fel. Except it'll have you thinking you're the good guy and everyone else is evil.

By the way, claiming there's never a peace mode for an entire species when we've been observing them for merely 40 years or so in lore is simple ignorance. Some aliens could've come down and watched us for the 40 year period between 1910 and 1950 and came to the same conclusion you did. That the entire species is murderous psychopaths who kill for killing. The orcs got alone fine with one another on Draenor, and even traded with the draenei on occasion.

Seeing Illidan destroy Xe'ra was awesome. Like Lucifer abandoning Heaven for his free will. I don't mind the Naaru if they keep their peaceful chime-like attitude and stay in the background and support morals, but I would not want a Naaru or a Void Lord or an Old God or whatever else there is to mess with my mind. Cooperation and humanitarian attitude should come out of a free will. Robots don't have morals.

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The Horde is based in cartoon villians... Gul'dan, Blackhand, Doomhammer, Garrosh, Sylvanas... All of them have been cartoonishly evil...

Thrall, Cairne, Baine, Vol'jin, Lor'themar and Lady Liadring surely disagree with you.