2 Faction MMOs are an outdated concept

[PuppetShowJustice]

All the other PvP focused MMOs have realized this, and either gone with a no faction system (Guild Wars, FFXI)

Errr....what? FFXI wasn't a PVP focused MMO. Like, at all. And the first time they added a PVP element it was a sports-style minigame called Ballista that DID take your character's home nation (i.e. faction) into account. In fact, I'm fairly sure only characters of certain nations could sign up for specific matches. I vividly remember repping the kingdom of San d'Oria on the battlefield way back when.

[Roarocz]

I enjoy the simplicity of two factions, but it would be interesting to me if at lower levels it could be broken down so that races are hostile to each other before joining their rightful faction at a stronger point.

[Fliches]

Realmpop:
"It's important to remember that we're simply counting the number of characters seen for each category. This does not mean the number of players, nor the number of actively played characters. We can't efficiently get activity data yet, so some characters may not have been played for a long time."

So unless they have a way to find and purge characters that were deleted, faction/name changed, etc., their population data is gonna be fairly skewed as well.

And based on it's source information basically being copy+pasted from realmpop's FAQ, I imagine that's where their data comes from.

You should really stop discrediting data sources with your subjective rhetoric as a way of defending your initial subjective rhetoric. It gets confusing going round in circles but then again i guess thats what you want.

[gaymer77]

Filter the stats for 120 only and it's even more drastic difference.

Guess your thick heads just exploded.

Yet you plainly ignore everyone who points out the data is not accurate. You could take your own advice and check before posting, but that wouldn't fit your agenda.

Also completely besides the point of this thread.

If you look at statista's data it shows data for factions as of July 2018 with Alliance having more characters on both the EU & US servers.

The guy claims the factions are inbalanced 44% alliance to 56% horde, then you go on a prove him right, (atleast for EU) yet calls his claims shitty... wat?

So a 10% difference is "massively outweighing" like he claims? And the EU servers are the only servers that are Horde higher populations. The US and overall faction balance is Alliance dominated slightly.

[Oneirophobia]

Shhhhh, logic will get in the way of their autistic screeching.

Meanwhile, several other sources posted saying the same thing and still zero sources for your side of the argument.

[Dartz1979]

I do agree with OP a third faction would make the game more interesting but can't and won't happen any time soon cause they'd have to decide how to go with that if it is ever pursued.. with allied races the goto thing to keep people busy i am sure eventually a new faction will happen.

[Louz]

If you look at statista's data it shows data for factions as of July 2018 with Alliance having more characters on both the EU & US servers.



So a 10% difference is "massively outweighing" like he claims? And the EU servers are the only servers that are Horde higher populations. The US and overall faction balance is Alliance dominated slightly.

Lol just admit it, you're full of shit dude

[tangers58]

I love how the fanboys will use warcraftrealms when it suits their argument.

But if I was to say that based on the data you just showed me that WoW is down to a million subs your fucking head would explode and you'd be screeching.

How dare they use data and facts to support their argument!? Sounds like you are just rambling while the people replying can actually back up their talk, nice try kid.

[Zaktar]

I enjoy the simplicity of two factions, but it would be interesting to me if at lower levels it could be broken down so that races are hostile to each other before joining their rightful faction at a stronger point.

Fun idea, personally I would love to see them pave over the Cata garbage and re-revamp the 1-60 experience (maybe even let those zones just scale right up to 100/110 or higher) to fit in line with something like what you're describing. Might give the game a fresh and dynamic feel, though it would be logistically hellacious.

Oh dear... WHOOOOOOSH.

The data they provided is skewed and inaccurate. As stated in the websites own FAQ.


The irony here is that if I was to try and use that data to claim there was only 1.1 million subscribers to WoW you white knights would instantly shoot me down claiming the data is inaccurate.

The hypocrisy is palpable.

Lol just admit it, you're full of shit dude

Oh look, inflammatory language and no relevant data. Weird how that keeps happening.

[bloodrunner]

Hmmm. This may be the theme for the final WoW expansion. All out PvP - Horde v Alliance. Winner takes all, you know only 2% of Alliance will show up for this. The Horde will rule all. Lok'tar Ogar!!!!! I would re-sub for this one.

[Deleted]

As long the split is within the interval of 40-60% i wouldn't say the concept is outdated, as it still splits the player-base well.

I'll counter the title's empty argument with another: "no Faction MMOs are a lazy concept".

[Maarius]

I think the future solution will be island expedition ai npcs in the open world. Spawning influenced by the number of actual faction players in the current zone playing in Warmode, actively seeking players to be in proximity to and attacking enemy faction players/npcs.

I know that ai will never be as good as good players, but it can simulate bad - mediocre players pretty well already, which is a reality in current open world PvP settings as well.

[Torrasque]

Slaughtering, camping, and griefing Alliance is a Horde past-time. It's basically part of our heritage now.

Besides, the Alliance has been leashed to our narrative for over a decade, there's no reason to change it. They are, by default, the submissive players that enjoy being dominated regularly. If the Devs were to try to break that balance, it could ruin Alliance player's experience just as much as Horde player's experience. If the devs were to buff them, they would be inherently ruining what it is to be Alliance and what it is to be Horde.

[Airlick]

PvP wasn't Horde dominated in Vanilla. I think it was actually Alliance favoured, but there was no major difference. The Alliance also had a pretty substantial edge in PvE. TBC even it out, and both factions were pretty even in WotLK, as well. But then racials were a LOT better for Horde than for the Alliance, at least as far as PvE was concerned. I guess adding paladins to the Horde without evening out the racials in time was what started the snowball.

As time went by, really the only thing keeping Alliance PvP alive was Every Man for Himself. It's not coincidence that 90% of world's top arena teams had human characters for every class they could be. And then every other race had worse racials than their Horde counterparts. Add Warstomp, WotF and Arcane Torrent for PvP, Arcane Torrent and Rocket Jump breaking encounters in PvE, to the removal of EMFH (or was it just heavily nerfed?) and players constantly trickling to the side that has both better racials and is considered the faction for hardcore players and you get the Alliance being dead both in PvE and PvP.

I mean, even if the overall numbers were balanced, which they clearly aren't, it's enough to look at wowprogress and 15 Alliance guilds in world's top 100 guilds and you see something is clearly very wrong. And it sends a message for the players that if you want to get something done, you have to play Horde. Even if the numbers WERE relatively balanced, the only thing we see is those numbers, and there are a lot of people that have max level characters on both factions, especially in an x-pac that has separate zones for them, meaning you need to play both factions in order to experience the whole story. We don't have the stats on which faction is actually more played.

It's not that 2 faction MMOs are outdated, it's just that Blizzard negligence of the Alliance has led to this. If the factions were relatively balanced, there would be some semblance of balance in numbers, as well. If one side is heavily favoured, it's obvious it will snowball in numbers.

[Garkanh]

If you look at statista's data it shows data for factions as of July 2018 with Alliance having more characters on both the EU & US servers.



So a 10% difference is "massively outweighing" like he claims? And the EU servers are the only servers that are Horde higher populations. The US and overall faction balance is Alliance dominated slightly.

I get that, but, it's really only the population in the region you play in that matters. It doesn't matter if the overall poplulation is balanced 50/50, if your region is unbalanced at 60/40, because those players are the only ones you can interact with. So for all intent and purpose, if the guy you quoted in the first place is playing in the EU, his stamement is 100% correct, if the numbers you found are correct.

[Louz]

Oh look, inflammatory language and no relevant data. Weird how that keeps happening.

You sound like you just came over from le reddit without reading my initial post to which gaymer replied and pretty much confirmed it - that is, on relevant level, 120, the horde has more active characters than alliance.

I mean you would actually have to be dumb to not get the message at this point

[Nnyco]

If pvp was always horde dominated why was everyone human for a long time?! What kinda paradox is that.

[Nomads]

Slaughtering, camping, and griefing Alliance is a Horde past-time. It's basically part of our heritage now.

Besides, the Alliance has been leashed to our narrative for over a decade, there's no reason to change it. They are, by default, the submissive players that enjoy being dominated regularly. If the Devs were to try to break that balance, it could ruin Alliance player's experience just as much as Horde player's experience. If the devs were to buff them, they would be inherently ruining what it is to be Alliance and what it is to be Horde.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. How is it even fun for 1 faction to dominate for 15 years? Wouldn't it be more fun to have a challenge? To actually PvP. To fight over world quest spots like you do in a BG?

I dunno, one side getting buffed rewards and constantly breaking the spirit of the other is only fun for bullies.

[zetitup]

So how would this third faction help in PvP?

Arena sure it doesn't matter, since you can meet ppl of your own faction.
But for BGs? Should they change every BG so they suit 3 teams? Should the third faction get to choose which side ally/horde they want to be on when they queue? If so, then they could play horde or alliance again.

There is no need for a third faction. Stop trying to change a game cause you don't like it.

[swatsonqt]

Ranking is besides the point. The fact of the matter is Alliance has had higher numbers of players than Horde since vanilla and has ALWAYS had a higher amount of players. Until this whole WM thing happened, PvP servers were higher populated by Horde players and PvE servers were dominated by Alliance players. The fact that Alliance has pussied out when it comes to WM is not to be a surprise. Blizzard can't force people to PvP if they don't want to and the fact that there are so few Alliance players opting in to WM shows that they generally don't give a fuck about PvP'ing. Oh yeah and For Honor another 3 faction system says Hi (from the depths of the barren servers they have). Games with 3 faction systems don't do well. ESO is mostly a PvE game not a PvP game. Their PvP is completely optional and only allowed in certain areas (where you have to travel to in order to partake in it) or instanced. ESO also allows players to join ANY faction with ANY race if they buy a perk in their store or buy an expansion that allows it.

But let's humor you, how would you suggest WoW doing a 3 faction system after 14 years? Do they just add in a whole new faction with whole new races to the game for this third faction? If you are going to suggest certain factions leaving the Horde or Alliance, what would you do with players who like being in the Horde/Alliance but play one of those factions that you suggest would split off?

Sylvanas gets kicked out of the horde and is all like "okay okay okay okay...well then i make my own faction with blackjack and hookers!". She rises everything from everywhere and boom new faction that gets als the other race models as undead version. #swatsonqt4lorewriting xD