Bellular is wrong and his kind of mentality is what is wrong with WoW

[Zyky]

If people do content for the rewards and the rewards only (and they hate the content)
That will not take them far.

Except people do content they hate for rewards to be looked up to. This was the case in Cata prior, people hated Dragon Soul to no end by the 50th week, but people still did it to try and get that weapon off of Deathwing to look cool and to be seen as a good player. The reality is if the rewards aren't there on bad content, people quit. If the rewards are there on bad content people stay around regardless of hating the content. This is a time proven truth because you saw the lowest sub numbers the first expansion with serious 'random' WF/sockets on gear in WoD, you had an all time completion low in Tomb of Sargeras, in Legion you had an entire playerbase saying how bad TF is for the community and how it diminishes reward. And now with BFA we're getting the extent of the backlash with the system because it's finally burning players out now that they took the TF system and greatly decreased the chance of TF happening.

Reward is what this game has ALWAYS been about, rare mounts, top end gear, and looking cool to other players. Warlords onward has greatly ruined how the game is and the communities dislike for it, is shown every day, every expansion where sub numbers just continuously drop.

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arms warrior brings insane burst, battle shout, rallying cry, mortal strike to reduce enemy healing, great mobility, good interrupt, disarm.

Half of what you mentioned isn't accurate at all. They have strong burst AoE and trash burst ST. Battle Shout is exactly what Scarecrowz is talking about with making certain classes mandatory(so you proved his point). Rallying Cry, the only utility that Warrior actually has, which gets outshined by other melee and what they bring. Mortal Strike, something that other melee have and even ranged have now. "Great" mobility is the largest stretch you have, Warrior mobility is one of the worst melee mobility in the game right now, probably 3rd worst only ahead of Ret and DK. "Good interrupt" every single class in the game has an interrupt and most of them are on the same cooldown as Pummel. "Disarm" is not something Warrior has had in several years.

In terms of Raiding most guilds only run 1 Warrior, that's because they're just not as good as other melee in the game right now. In terms of M+ Demon Hunter and Rogue outshine Warriors in every aspect of M+ and bring far more utility to the group.

[elynos]

Except people do content they hate for rewards to be looked up to. This was the case in Cata prior, people hated Dragon Soul to no end by the 50th week, but people still did it to try and get that weapon off of Deathwing to look cool and to be seen as a good player. The reality is if the rewards aren't there on bad content, people quit. If the rewards are there on bad content people stay around regardless of hating the content. This is a time proven truth because you saw the lowest sub numbers the first expansion with serious 'random' WF/sockets on gear in WoD, you had an all time completion low in Tomb of Sargeras, in Legion you had an entire playerbase saying how bad TF is for the community and how it diminishes reward. And now with BFA we're getting the extent of the backlash with the system because it's finally burning players out now that they took the TF system and greatly decreased the chance of TF happening.

Reward is what this game has ALWAYS been about, rare mounts, top end gear, and looking cool to other players. Warlords onward has greatly ruined how the game is and the communities dislike for it, is shown every day, every expansion where sub numbers just continuously drop.

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Half of what you mentioned isn't accurate at all. They have strong burst AoE and trash burst ST. Battle Shout is exactly what Scarecrowz is talking about with making certain classes mandatory(so you proved his point). Rallying Cry, the only utility that Warrior actually has, which gets outshined by other melee and what they bring. Mortal Strike, something that other melee have and even ranged have now. "Great" mobility is the largest stretch you have, Warrior mobility is one of the worst melee mobility in the game right now, probably 3rd worst only ahead of Ret and DK. "Good interrupt" every single class in the game has an interrupt and most of them are on the same cooldown as Pummel. "Disarm" is not something Warrior has had in several years.

In terms of Raiding most guilds only run 1 Warrior, that's because they're just not as good as other melee in the game right now. In terms of M+ Demon Hunter and Rogue outshine Warriors in every aspect of M+ and bring far more utility to the group.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19 you mad arms warrior is 4th in # parses 2nd in dps.

[Deleted]

Oh look scarecrowz is banned, i wonder why.

[Deleted]

Oh look scarecrowz is banned, i wonder why.

Same. I can see nothing in this thread to justify it. Was a matter of time I guess :/

[Deleted]

Raider.io is a better reward system and it is made by players, I know that a lot of people here hate r.io but it is the only things that atm makes people doing more than the weekly +10.

Think about it.

And think how is deranged Blizzard from that pov.

[Alkizon]

Raider.io

RIO is just artificial organ embedded in system's sick and damaged body. Moreover, there is nothing from "reward" in it, it's just whip for slaves, and even not an indicator of how people like/want disputed "content" (as well as "@$$-hours" by which Blizzard now measures its "popularity"). We already discussed this here +

Next <1> <2> <3> + 4

[Lei]

The problem IMO is threefold in case of collectibles, I assume we are talking about mainly these:
1) the PRICE (time spent in game for something guaranteed) of said rewards compared to previous expansions. All think back to bc and wotlk and cata and mop. WHEN did you have to farm thousands of islands time worth for mounts and pets? NEVER.
2) the LONGEVITY prediction/expectation of said content: people will get bored after 3-4 months of the same. See raids? You can't push one thing for 2 years and hope people won't get bored of it. The 1000th island will feel boring no matter how fast it is, or what amazing reward you get (maybe, cuz RNG).
3) RNG. Now some level of RNG is good of course, but 0,1% drop rate on stuff which is already a chance to even spawn and on a weekly rotation is NOT okay.

Combine these the wrong way and you get a recipe for the most unrewarding, boring, demotivating game design, the one we have right now. We are playing the game for more hours per day and get less meaningful rewards compared to anything up to wod, coincidently when the game started to go downhill, sub numbers started to not matter and "engagement monitoring" took its place.

They can't just pump the rewards, see islands, because the content itself will remain hideous.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

The reward design we have in BfA we have had since WotLK. It all started there. You got epics at once you dinged 80 because it was then raiding started to be easy, and it is then the philosophy "Everyone can raid" started.

If anything it was easier to gear up in start of WotLK than the start of Cataclysm. Naxx was equal to what LFR is today. People tend to forget that the meme World of Casualcraft started in WotLK. Easy content, easy rewards.

Some content in Wrath and onwards might’ve been easier/easier to access but it and Cata/MoP was far, far from the loot pinata and RNG on top of RNG that WoD, Legion and BfA puked over you.
More importantly the earlier expansions had crafted, token rewards to work on and Legendary items that required you/your group/your guild to work on (MoP slightly worse off for this).
More importantly is that pre-WoD era WoW actually had the sence of acomplishment and paced gearing speed, yes MoP was "worse" than other previous expansions but nothing compared to later ones. That’s the reason(s) I like playing Vanilla WoW private servers snd will play the crap out of Classicc when it launches; it feels like a rewarding journey.

[Lei]

I still don't understand the concept of streamers. Maybe I'm old. I had to Google this Bellular dude. Streamers are lazy pieces of shit, that instead of going out in the world and making something of themselves, think how can they make money by sitting on my ass doing nothing. They just play video games and talk about it.

What I don't understand is why do people constantly follow these people, and make threads here to discuss their opinion as if it were any different than any other MMO-C poster?

Is that the level of intellect of the gaming community now? That any neck beard can turn a webcam on and beg for follows and likes on YouTube, and all of a sudden people think their opinion is more valid than anyone else?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I worry about this new generation. Instead of liking or following some dipshit on YouTube, read a book ffs.

TL;DR -- Who gives a shit about what some loser streamer thinks?

You don't have to care about "who" said it, for all your concerns it could be Bob. You should car eabout WHAT was being said. You can say "well I don't care about Bob's thoughts neither!" but then why are you on these forums and how can you expect that anyone else cares about yours?
Consider youtube videos as a conversation starter from noname guys, it'll be easier to process for your old brain, I promise.

[chooi]

arms warrior brings insane burst, battle shout, rallying cry, mortal strike to reduce enemy healing, great mobility, good interrupt, disarm.

Disarm is PvP only.

"Great mobility" suddenly becomes not so great when you have to go for Def Stance (almost mandatory for most high-end content) and Stormbolt (mandatory in M+).

MS debuff is 99% irrelevant for PvE content.

Rallying Cry - nice to have. Other classes bring similar, better or more raid/group utility.

War Scroll is only 3% less AP. DH brings 5% more damage for your casters and can use a War Scroll.

DH burst is better tailored for M+ than Arms' burst.

[Lurker1]

Want to do a shoey with me? We'll scull one for the Blizzard that used to be.

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Compelling argument. Stop posting now.

Nope i won't noob ill keep posting ty!

[Deleted]

I unsubbed from him back in WoD, he was bashing instead of talking about improvements - I don't like that kind of people.

I haven't heard him have an original thought ever.. He use the same template for all his videos, even for thumbnails - Just lazy imho.

[Nyel]

Class Design is not the problem ... everyone claims it is but remember "the good old days" where classes where so much better? But in fact they were the same garbage and 2 years ago everyone was shitting around about classes the same way they do now.

Shitting about balance, not class design. Class design was worse maybe in TBC / WotLK. Right now we're at an all time low when it comes to that. From 100-120 there is ZERO progress when it comes to class development. Legion had artifact weapons, legendaries and even t-sets. BfA has horrible Azerite gear that makes all of it worse not better.

[Speedlance]

Wow has no identity anymore because you can't have that when you spend most of the time satisfying everyone instead of trying to create gameplay flow. Blizzard need to be creators of the game and not listeners. Because the vast majority of players have no clue what makes the fun.
Talk to anyone out there about why they thought vanilla was so great, I bet most of them will go with the basic shit answer "the community was better" because they honestly don't know why it was fun.

I can tell you why I personally enjoyed Vanilla because I had proper things to work towards. I started in 2005 so when I entered the game I was met with people who had epic gear already and that made me idolized them hugely and gave me the same feeling as when I saw Soccer games with Arsenal and how much I loved Dennis Bergkamp and Ian Wright so much and I wanted to be like them so I also started with soccer.

Everybody now days want to be the hero for everybody else and Blizzard dealt with this by giving more people the ability to try and get there and that took wow onto a road that lead them to Cata and onwards.

unfortunately every game that is made now won't have a lasting playerbase because people get their satisfaction completed much faster and move on, mainly because of streamers but also because the new generation is a lot more soft and demanding then it was before.

[Deleted]

Wow has no identity anymore because you can't have that when you spend most of the time satisfying everyone instead of trying to create gameplay flow. Blizzard need to be creators of the game and not listeners. Because the vast majority of players have no clue what makes the fun.
Talk to anyone out there about why they thought vanilla was so great, I bet most of them will go with the basic shit answer "the community was better" because they honestly don't know why it was fun.

I can tell you why I personally enjoyed Vanilla because I had proper things to work towards. I started in 2005 so when I entered the game I was met with people who had epic gear already and that made me idolized them hugely and gave me the same feeling as when I saw Soccer games with Arsenal and how much I loved Dennis Bergkamp and Ian Wright so much and I wanted to be like them so I also started with soccer.

Everybody now days want to be the hero for everybody else and Blizzard dealt with this by giving more people the ability to try and get there and that took wow onto a road that lead them to Cata and onwards.

unfortunately every game that is made now won't have a lasting playerbase because people get their satisfaction completed much faster and move on, mainly because of streamers but also because the new generation is a lot more soft and demanding then it was before.

There is no (zero) real argument to support the claim that Blizz is creating WoW based on p(l)ayers’ expectations and needs. Quite the contrary. There is proof enough to support the claim they are coding WoW opposed to p(l)ayers’ feedback.

[Demithio]

There is no (zero) real argument to support the claim that Blizz is creating WoW based on p(l)ayers’ expectations and needs. Quite the contrary. There is proof enough to support the claim they are coding WoW opposed to p(l)ayers’ feedback.

Its just a convenient thing for Blizzard to use, "the player base wants this!", because it coincides with what corporate wants in terms of reduced development time and cost along with greater RoI. The bean counters on top of the Blizzard food chain could care less what the actual player base wants. They've been shoveling this sort of horseshit down people's throats for years now. Some swallow it, some do not.

[Dezminion]

Shitting about balance, not class design. Class design was worse maybe in TBC / WotLK. Right now we're at an all time low when it comes to that. From 100-120 there is ZERO progress when it comes to class development. Legion had artifact weapons, legendaries and even t-sets. BfA has horrible Azerite gear that makes all of it worse not better.

Yeah, Azerite gear makes no sense what so ever.
I can't even understand why someone at Blizz went "Hey, this is going to be just AWESOME, lets throw in pieces of gear that are just like the Netherlight Crucible, everyone just loved it!"

My own opinion is, that Blizzard needs another "Greg Street", some hated him, but if being serious Cata&MoP were his "crown jewels" in Class Design.
And I must say that I enjoyed nearly all of the specs back then.

[schwank05]

WoWs repeatable content isn't fun anymore because the vessel you use to play through it - your class; has been neutered beyond belief.

BfAs failures begin and end with Class Design and the complete and utter lack of character progression past level 100.

Exactly, I made a rogue in Wrath because they were able to equip axes, had no incentive to make one before that then when they killed off OH weapons I pretty much quit playing my Rogue all together because MH and Dagger is not nearly as cool as 2 big axes, maces, swords. I loved the old talent systems and what you could randomly make up with them, remember DW Unholy DK?

[Zyky]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19 you mad arms warrior is 4th in # parses 2nd in dps.

You're looking over the course of 2 weeks, after nerfs have happened. You're also looking at overall in terms of bosses. Where you would have had to look, prior to nerfs, would have been Ghuun, Mythrax, and Fetid, otherwise known as the 3 bosses that heavily punished raid groups for bringing more than 4 melee.

[Laqweeta]

Asmongold,bellular....guys with zero knowledge for the game,with standpoints of 12yr olds.

Zero knowledge of the game..? Haven't they been playing since beta? Blizzard needs to listen to these people, not these actual 12 year olds who started in Cata/heard about wow through Fortnite.