Well here we go again, Blizzard are stretching that taffy...

[Elidan456]

I came back to this game after a 10 years break 2 months ago. I'm having a blast with M+, currently at 1070 IO, 378ilevel, cleared Heroic Uldir, and 2/8 Mythic and ALL of that being guildless. You don't even need to be in a guild anymore to have some of the best gear in the game and people still find ground to complain that they don't get Mythic BIS every week? Getting geared in this game is now 10 times easier as it was in Vanilla or TBC where you needed to actually play with a semi-serious guild to get anywhere close to the kind of gear I currently have.

Raiding 3-4 nights a week in Vanilla to progress in AQ, than going back to MC and BWL to get those T2 pants and that last elusive set piece was something every raiding guild had to do.

[Zyky]

Screeching "REEEEEEEE I HATE BLIZZARD SO MUCH HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE" so incoherently that it manages to get an infraction isn't someone trying to provide constructive feedback. It's someone forcing themselves to play a game they hate and will always hate, given, as I addressed, they're literally complaining that Blizzard are daring to try to FIX what they are complaining about. (Ambiguously faulty azerite armor)

Yes, sure, but you making blanket statements about how anyone who dislikes anything about the game who is trying to changes to happen constructively is basically you just screeching "REEEEE" right back.

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Ah, the good ol' white knight accusations when all else fails. Never heard that one before.

Well, you do you and I'll do mine, but I see no reason to engage with you further if you will persist in this attitude. Good day.

Except you're the one failing, I've proven you wrong at every turn you attempt(and fail) to take. So yes, you are an actual White Knight defending Blizzard for absolutely trash systems.

[Jtbrig7390]

So when are people going to realize the only thing Activision-Blizzard actually gives a fuck about is $$$ and how much time you spend playing the game.


My advise, Play it casually or don't play it at all. Playing "hardcore" will just burn you out fast and make you annoyed.

[Muajin76]

inb4 fanboys defending blizzard for literally no reason at all.

Similar to Trump screwing over his supporters by increasing tariffs, thereby hurting American farmers and manufactorers etc...yet his supporters still love him. No f'ing clue why..

[Mazinger-Z]

The thing is the rate of gain has to be smooth.

In Legion, and you can look at the Wowhead guide, Titan Essences could be farmed for a random Leggo a week if you hit all the sweet spots:

Kill all the Antorus bosses at any level.
Emissaries.
Daily Dungeon.
Daily PvP.

Doing that for seven days gave you just enough essences to randomly open a leggo.

By the same token, with Argus, with the weeklies and farming the rares, world quests and gates, you could get enough Veiled Argunite for several chances at Relinquished gear several times.

It was soul killing to do, but I did twice to get a character raid ready and then to get my BiS leggos on my main.

The point is, week to week, I had actual, measurable progression.

This system needs to enable people to upgrade week to week.

How possible is that with this system?

[mvaliz]

inb4 fanboys defending blizzard for literally no reason at all.

I believe the reason is known: Sunk Cost Falacy

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Similar to Trump screwing over his supporters by increasing tariffs, thereby hurting American farmers and manufactorers etc...yet his supporters still love him. No f'ing clue why..

See above... ;P

[Aphrel]

i want an option to turn off the badluck protection from weekly cache.
Im swimming in worthless 390 azerite gear and still sitting on useless rings and trinkets.

[Zyky]

How possible is that with this system?

It's really not possible with how the system is formulated right now. They'd have to alter the system and how it works to make it so you could get the tokens from various sources, which in turn would probably make Blizzard increase the amount needed(because they're all about that "time played" metric now since they're losing subs by droves). What they really need to do is get rid of the "scrap azerite gear for essence" and just make drops like Legion. Because what this encourages is players NEVER trading azerite gear in pugs and making trading azerite feel awful in organized raiding, sure with organized raiding it's about the benefit of the group, but that doesn't make the process of the system feel any less shitty.

[huth]

did i stumble in the dev room at blizz hq? or is this a forum filled with paying customers discussing their common product? Why is his comment only validated if he has an alternative? please try not to be so stupid just to stand up for a company that really sees you as 15$ a month.

Neither. It's mostly complaints, founded or not, with little actual discussion taking place.

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Actually that's not factually correct.
Static/token based currencies were not removed because community hated them, but because Blizzard wanted to move towards random systems.
https://www.pcgamesn.com/wow/blizzar...rlords-draenor
https://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/...e-acquisition/

So the correct version of that is

Blizzard (during TBC): Alright, introducing a badge/currency system to get static rewards.
Community: Boo! Hiss! Welfare epics be terrible!

I think your memory needs a little jogging.

[thunterman]

You also get raw dust from your weekly cache though. And we don't know how much exactly until tomorrow morning. Depending on that amount will decide whether or not this was a good or bad change. Personally, I want to see it take a week to get a RNG piece, and a month to get a specific. That feels right to me. It's easy to say that you want to buy 3 specific pieces in the first couple weeks through grinding, but realistically, if that were the case, what would you do after getting them? You'd get bored and be mad that they were too easy to get. If this were grindable in a meaningful way, the rage would be insane. People complaining that they 'HAVE' to grind AZ armor e.t.c (the whole trait debacle all over again)

There's something I've learnt in the last few months about BFA, and that is, the less you care about that 1% DPS increase from X, Y and Z, the more you will enjoy the game. Stop feeling compelled to get those 3x dagger in the back. Just use whatever the best gear you already have is. If you get better, great, it not, oh well. It's only 1%! Stop caring so much, it's negligible.

[Doffen]

People wanted this since beta, to be able to target Azerite Armor. Blizz gave them this, people complaints about having to do 3 mythic+ 10 in 3 weeks to get an Azerite-item. I mean what the fuck is wrong with people? Whatever worse than white-knighting is to hate whatever Blizzard does.

They gave us targetable Azerite-Armor. Now stop whining.

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The thing is the rate of gain has to be smooth.

In Legion, and you can look at the Wowhead guide, Titan Essences could be farmed for a random Leggo a week if you hit all the sweet spots:

Kill all the Antorus bosses at any level.
Emissaries.
Daily Dungeon.
Daily PvP.

Doing that for seven days gave you just enough essences to randomly open a leggo.

By the same token, with Argus, with the weeklies and farming the rares, world quests and gates, you could get enough Veiled Argunite for several chances at Relinquished gear several times.

It was soul killing to do, but I did twice to get a character raid ready and then to get my BiS leggos on my main.

The point is, week to week, I had actual, measurable progression.

This system needs to enable people to upgrade week to week.

How possible is that with this system?

Problem is that what you write here is the system they gave us when there wasn't any content left. This is what they do when character progression doesn't matter anymore. It's still 18 months before it's time to do what you suggest.

With the leggos that is. Agree on the relinquished gear. But remember that didn't happen before 7.2 in Legion. Still time.

[Elidan456]

To me, your entire paragraph sounds like someone took a good ol' MMORPG behind the shed, said goodbyes and put a bullet into it.
The modern WoW (Legion + BFA) feels very much like single-person operational conditioning chamber and not at all like a MMORPG.

It's all very subjective anyhow - some like it, others don't.

Sounds like you're having fun, so keep it up :-)
Don't let old MMO-geezers like myself get in the way of your enjoyment of the game.

I somewhat knew that epics were given to almost any players, since it already started during Wrath when I stopped playing. So I can't say that I was surprised by that.

However, the leveling aspect is mostly a solo experience, and M+ is the only place where I actually talked to people and made some new friends to do dungeons with. But the deep community aspect that we had back then is pretty much dead, at least on my server.

[Doffen]

Yes, sure, but you making blanket statements about how anyone who dislikes anything about the game who is trying to changes to happen constructively is basically you just screeching "REEEEE" right back.

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Except you're the one failing, I've proven you wrong at every turn you attempt(and fail) to take. So yes, you are an actual White Knight defending Blizzard for absolutely trash systems.

No, like always, you fail. Fail to realize that not everyone likes the same things as you. Like always you are just complaining to complain, with no proper response. Like always, you fail to actually discuss with people. Which in turn just can't be arsed discussing with you.

You didn't prove shit to him. What you proved is that you got an opinion. Congrats man! You won an opinion!

[Deleted]

People wanted this since beta, to be able to target Azerite Armor. Blizz gave them this, people complaints about having to do 3 mythic+ 10 in 3 weeks to get an Azerite-item. I mean what the fuck is wrong with people? Whatever worse than white-knighting is to hate whatever Blizzard does.

They gave us targetable Azerite-Armor. Now stop whining.

They gave you a system designed to keep you subbed by literally dangling a carrot in front of you. While the residue system provides players with "options", it is overall better for Blizzard than the original incarnation in dragging the longevity of the content. The number of residue from activities just has to be kept low enough so the next item feels within reach in the next week/weeks(/month for specific pieces) all the while ignoring that you can't get RNG lucky anymore(via weekly cache) and you are heavily incentivized not to trade armor anymore(thus overall delaying others).

When you add hotfixes down the line(for example having an azerite trait being slightly ahead of others being nerfed to slightly worse), you can drag the system for an expansion at no effort.

[SirCowdog]

If it's doable by one person in any amount of time then it's doable by 5...That's the point I was making, if you're saying you can't get a group of four other people to join you and do what one person did alone that's a problem

The skill levels required for a player to solo that kind of content are MUCH higher than what's required for group runs. The entire point of groups is to use teamwork to overcome challenges and shore up weaknesses that a single person has to deal with.

Telling someone that they should be able to play at that level doesn't make any sense.

[Doffen]

They gave you a system designed to keep you subbed by literally dangling a carrot in front of you. While the residue system provides players with "options", it is overall better for Blizzard than the original incarnation in dragging the longevity of the content. The number of residue from activities just has to be kept low enough so the next item feels within reach in the next week/weeks(/month for specific pieces) all the while ignoring that you can't get RNG lucky anymore(via weekly cache) and you are heavily incentivized not to trade armor anymore(thus overall delaying others).

When you add hotfixes down the line(for example having an azerite trait being slightly ahead of others being nerfed to slightly worse), you can drag the system for an expansion at no effort.

I couldn't care less on how they do it. I just acknowledge that this change is what a lot of people on these forums wanted. It's so easy to get and so easy to upgrade already. Most people do heroic Uldir and normal Uldir, you get 370(375 when upgraded) from emissaries, 3+ times a week in average. All with BiS traits if you just do all of them. And if you raid mythic chances are you got your BiS from there.

For me Azerite Armor and the system is too easy. Too easy to get, and to easy to upgrade that I have lost interest. This change is just making it easier. For good and for worse.

[Vantheus]

The skill levels required for a player to solo that kind of content are MUCH higher than what's required for group runs. The entire point of groups is to use teamwork to overcome challenges and shore up weaknesses that a single person has to deal with.

Telling someone that they should be able to play at that level doesn't make any sense.

I'm not saying you should be able to play at that skill level I'm saying you should be able to play at 1/5 that skill level. Mythic plusses aren't for everyone, he did that with a 386 item level so there's no reason in the world a five-man group cant blow through that also

[kamuimac]

Actually that's not factually correct.
Static/token based currencies were not removed because community hated them, but because Blizzard wanted to move towards random systems.
https://www.pcgamesn.com/wow/blizzar...rlords-draenor
https://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/...e-acquisition/

So the correct version of that is

Blizzard (during TBC): Alright, introducing a badge/currency system to get static rewards.
Community: Mmk, cool. <playing along over serveral expacs>
Blizzard: Allright, we've decided to move away from deterministic badge/currency systems, because reasons only known to us.
(Blizzard - silently: Also, our new corporate overlords require us to measure MAU's and we can't have a system that actually let's you plan your gametime and determine rewards)
Community: Fuck you Blizzard! We don't want active drop RNG rewards, go back to to passive token system!
Blizzard: You think you love deterministic token based loot, but you don't. We actually have a spreadsheet that tells us what you think is fun so you're all wrong.

and are they wrong ? they are giving people deterministic way to get 3 bis piece in 4 months and people are going full retard mode about it. (and in the meantime they will get maaaaaaany random ones possibly with bis traits too cuting this time realisticaly to a month or 2 )

so what you are saying is that in fact they are right about it

[Deleted]

Who actually thinks adding a second major ring is going to fix anything for min Maxers? All you do now is look for the TWO best traits instead of one. Who thinks simply adding another ring was a good idea?? It just over complicates things even further.

[Zaktar]

So what is your solution OP?

A quasi-thought out idea from someone who stopped playing back in like August or September (can't be bothered to recall):

Instead of tying specific traits to pieces of azerite armor, just let players pick combinations from a pool. Maybe you unlock new traits from the pool by getting an item with it? Once you're past heroic level drops you should get the fun traits as soon as you equip a new piece; if grinding AP must be a thing, just tie it to item levels. There are probably other issues with the expansion but these alone might rekindle my interest in trying this expansion.