Well here we go again, Blizzard are stretching that taffy...

[Pickynerd]

Pfft ppl still play private servers? Hahahahah

There is a reason why Classic is going to be a thing.

People still play live servers? Hahahahahaha

[Niwes]

Sorry but as an old fart who played all those old games, modern WoW is not hard or grindy compared to old stuff but the RNG is still inexcusable. With every patch they strip more RPG elements and add more weird psuedo-gambling mechanics, making it feel like a really slow, clunky and dated Diablo. You may have busted your ass back in the day for +5 stamina boots but at the end you could look at your thing and say "Yup, I worked hard and earned this." With this new system, yes you can EVENTUALLY earn your gear which is a great step in the right direction, but it's still drowning in a muddled pool of RNG that makes the JOURNEY there not fun.

That's the big difference between modern WoW and old school MMOs, hell even all of the decent modern MMOs that are still chugging (GW2, ESO, FFXIV, etc.)

this is something i can agree (and i do, bc i am also not a friend of the diablo style rng shit).

in my mind there is still the argument that also the rare drop chances in classic did a make or break, when you looked at the other rogue in your raid guild doing 10% more dps because the 1.4% dropchance item dropped for him, while you got it 7 months later. in such stuff there isnt that much of a difference to today.

but that said, your statement is at least (in comparisson to a lot of others here) logical, straight and argumented instead stupid ranting out of the ass. and i agree.

for me personally i dont like many things of the new game design. foremost the much investment blizz wants from you into one character. since i loved to play alts on high gear niveau in older xpacs, this became nearly impossible since Legion. on the other hand i understand that 90% of ppl have one main and thats it. and blizz want a carrotte on a stick for them as long as possible.

look, when you played TBC or WotlK you did your weekly raid and stuff on your main. that was it. if you wanted to play more, you had to do pvp or go alt playing. pvp and alts was the „filler stuff“ back in these days. if you dont like or do that, today you unsub, and come „maybe“ back later. so blizz changed the filler stuff. from alts and pvp to side progressions and rng rng rng for your main.

this leads ofc to a diablo game. its all an endless grind. there are ppl that like this, and ppl that dont like this. but in the end blizz will do, what makes them more money. and they have the data. we not. all we have is a mmoc minority and a official forum minority, that represents around 10% of the player base.

blizz released 4 years ago some numbers how much of their playerbase never ever stepped one foot into their forums. that was a horrible high number. what i wanna say is: ppl here think their mmoc/forum mindset, the world from their point of view in their head, is the reality. it is not. we have no clue how good or not wow as it is now sells for blizz. and they will ALWAYS do what makes them money. not what that 10% above like or dont like.

sad but true.

[munkeyinorbit]

It's not like he has to invent one - we have had several perfectly acceptable loot systems in the past. Take your pick of WotLK token or a proper loot system that doesn't include azerite armor.

Considering the second part is not going to happen until next xpac, what is a real solution?

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It's honestly a terrible system. This makes Azerite harder to obtain than it currently is...removing azerite drops from weekly chests to put in a currency in its place where you can get a random piece every 4 weeks if you're lucky and a specific piece 2 months down the line....this is terrible and I truly hope the community causes an outrage on Tuesday when they see how little they actually open from their chests.

Is this the attitude of most people? Outrage because they don't get what they want now? How about earning gear once in a while?

[Oblider]

This surely is some high quality snarky comment

[Vantheus]

Is there a video of that, maybe? I'd like to see how it was done.

https://youtu.be/1vaaXFelkOE

[Alydael]

The thing is that with BfA they didn't even try. They took away old staples of WoW (such as class sets) and new, cool things (legiondaries) only to give us a stat stick and some completely unnoticeable (as far as PvE rotation goes) bonuses. Hell, even the talent trees of old were better than this - at least you weren't at the mercy of RNG.

Cata, or MoP was when they actually took risks. In the case of the former, the world revamp was a huge undertaking, same for the (back then) new questing system; the results will always be controversial, but you can't deny that they tried. In the case of the latter, the China-like setting, the new race that could join either Alliance or Horde, the overall story were big bets.

But for BfA? Generic faction war storyline (that half of the time doesn't even make sense, so far), heavy reliance on last expansion's mechanics (AP/WQs/M+), and a convoluted system like Azerite, which has all the flaws of Legion's artifacts with none of their redeeming qualities. I'd really like to know how many dev hours it took to develop this Azerite thing.

I would love to see them scrap the azerite and just bring back the old trees.

They could do it like this: "all the exposure to the azerite has caused some of the azerite to leak into your blood. It now course through your body- reawkening powers that were long forgotten...."

[munkeyinorbit]

did i stumble in the dev room at blizz hq? or is this a forum filled with paying customers discussing their common product? Why is his comment only validated if he has an alternative? please try not to be so stupid just to stand up for a company that really sees you as 15$ a month.

Nobody likes a whinger. Whinging about a product is saying its bad in a tantrum as per op. Discussion is complaining about a product and then offering a solution. Try not to be so indigent about people pointing this out.

[korijenkins]

So what is your solution OP?

He doesn't need to propose one, he is not an employee. He only has to point out how this solution is flawed.

[Jastall]

We always had never ending whining cycle: (most reward is % drop rate) RNG -> (Blizz listen to complains and introduce currency or any predictable system) GRIND -> (Blizz make stuff easier/quicker to obtain) NOTHING TO DO.

Just look at world quests last few months:

- Legion - paragon caches and mount - RNG
- BfA - launch, people need reputations - GRIND
- BfA - 2 months after, people get their exalted - NOTHING TO DO.

Notice that between GRIND and NOTHING TO DO there was never period when people said: "alright, we have stuff to complete, but nothing force you to do them 24/7". No, they farmed this shit like morons on launch (and complain that world quest gives 75, and ignore that emissary gives 1500, so it's way to go) even when exalted reps gives only cosmetic stuff like mounts or new allied race.

But this time you start whining about GRIND even before patch launch. You even dismiss any critic as "white knight", even before you saw first post against you. Reminds me about that dude that made thread how Argus raid will be complete shit... back in 7.2 when noything from 7.3 was even datamined.

Yeah, the nostalgia for badge gear is making me giggle when it was also endless complained about as "welfare epics" or "too long a grind" or "breadcrumbs for casuals" and whatnot. No system has ever been free of hyperbolic complaints.

Now that doesn't mean what we get is perfect, it's literally meant as a band-aid for poor RNG, not a primary source of gear, and doesn't fix all of Azerite's problems. But of course some people are going to look at the price for one max-ilvl specific piece and go apeshit, but rationally 99% of players would get more bang for their buck with something lesser. I can't remember another time where you could just buy an absolute BiS piece off a vendor. Of course it's going to be extremely expensive.

[rrayy]

did i stumble in the dev room at blizz hq? or is this a forum filled with paying customers discussing their common product? Why is his comment only validated if he has an alternative? please try not to be so stupid just to stand up for a company that really sees you as 15$ a month.

Because not giving an alternative shows the poster to be nothing more than a whiny child than actually wanting to help the game. Also childish is your roundabout way of calling someone who disagrees with you a fanboy.

[Kelathos]

You didn't understand it at all it seems.

I am upset that this new system not only trolls us for doing what we were told to be doing for months now (grinding mulitple pieces of azerite gear) but then slaps us in the face with these ridiculous costs for gear we actually get to choose / want that are only affordable by doing things that we may not want to be doing to progress.

I for one do not enjoy Mythic+ grinding or breaking my skull against raid encounters I have to have stupid feasts, flasks, pots and other expensive time-sinking crap for, with openly hostile PUGs / frustrated guild raiders. I'd rather be able to craft or discover azerite armor out in the world than run through a dungeon listening to people being awful to each other. But nope. Can't do that! Gotta keep that subscription going with OUR way of doing things, or you can just not play at all.

With 8.0 "over", why would you grind Azerite gear? Blizzard told us 8.0 gear would NOT give currency when sharded.
You could have known ahead of time that there was no purpose in your pursuit of that gear. Sorry that you didn't.

[Soon-TM]

Nobody likes a whinger. Whinging about a product is saying its bad in a tantrum as per op. Discussion is complaining about a product and then offering a solution. Try not to be so indigent about people pointing this out.

Still, it's the developers's job to provide solutions, not the customers'. Not that Blizzard gives a flying !@#$ about player feedback anyway, regardless of its quality

[munkeyinorbit]

Its Azeshite gear, it had it chance at launch to prove its worth, it failed that, this bandaid is their second attempt to get it right, its not looking worthwhile either as its still the same shite just gussied up a little to make it look shiny.

but you go for it, have fun.

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I dont, I unsubbed rather than pay for something I haven't touched in weeks. I do however love to tussle with the morally grey in here who love white knighting Blizzard.

morally grey = white knighting? Trying to convince others to hate a game = having fun? OK buddy. Sounds like you are having quitters remorse. It's ok to quit something because you don't like it. It is actually healthy if you do but it is pretty pathetic to come to forums and insult people because they didn't quit too.

[FelPlague]

Btw I love the idea how people are like "2 months is far too long to get your very specific best in slot garunteed until the next raid!"

guys, remember this is a vendor that sells LITERALLY THE BEST POSSIBLE GEAR UNTIL THE NEXT RAID.
yes its gunna cost a fuck ton.
if you could 3 weeks in get the entire BIS armor those slots would just be entirtely useless INSTANTLY

people cry about "wellfare epics" but then at the same time cry "it takes 2 months to get the garunteed BIS this is bullshit!"

[munkeyinorbit]

Still, it's the developers's job to provide solutions, not the customers'. Not that Blizzard gives a flying !@#$ about player feedback anyway, regardless of its quality

That's a Loser's attitude and gets you nowhere in life. That's why people don't like whingers. They don't like the stink that they give off. People like winners and winners come up with solutions.

[Rootkitt]

It's not like he has to invent one - we have had several perfectly acceptable loot systems in the past. Take your pick of WotLK token or a proper loot system that doesn't include azerite armor.

Those were not "acceptable loot systems" for everyone, and are not a solution to the BFA mess. Its easy to cry and moan, why not think up a solution and how it may apply to the current state instead?

[Zyky]

Is this the attitude of most people? Outrage because they don't get what they want now? How about earning gear once in a while?

I've been a Cutting Edge Mythic Raider since before achievements were in the game. I earn gear perfectly fine, there is ZERO reason that I should have to be forced behind a terrible currency system(that in turn removed the random chance to get my BiS) to get my BiS because Blizzard doesn't put the BiS in the raid.

[Soon-TM]

That's a Loser's attitude and gets you nowhere in life. That's why people don't like whingers. They don't like the stink that they give off. People like winners and winners come up with solutions.

Lolololol nice ad hominem man. It's not as white knights can do any better though. In this very thread there are plenty of solutions, too bad if you didn't read and/or didn't understand

Back on topic, it's pretty clear that Blizzard doesn't like feedback, no matter the amount or the quality. All the problems of BfA atm were pointed as early as the alpha... and here we are. At least we're getting a badge vendor (sort of) in 8.1. Who could have thought!

[Zyky]

Btw I love the idea how people are like "2 months is far too long to get your very specific best in slot garunteed until the next raid!"

guys, remember this is a vendor that sells LITERALLY THE BEST POSSIBLE GEAR UNTIL THE NEXT RAID.
yes its gunna cost a fuck ton.
if you could 3 weeks in get the entire BIS armor those slots would just be entirtely useless INSTANTLY

people cry about "wellfare epics" but then at the same time cry "it takes 2 months to get the garunteed BIS this is bullshit!"

What you fail to realize is Blizzard is constantly changing Azerite traits and have been every few weeks since BFA released. How would you feel if you spent 2 months gathering up the currency to get your BiS then the very next week Blizzard put out hotfixes that nerfed your BiS traits?

[bigbleach]

I really don't like posting my opinions because with this forum the white knights and devil's advocates come out of the woodwork like the maggots they are to chew up any negative feedback for blizz... but here we go.



What is Titan Residuum? It's a random piece of lore they thought up in the last 10 minutes of an afternoon meeting to shoehorn into the game like 80% of current lore. Seriously Blizzard, you could have just added the feature in without insulting us with that stupid name with no basis in the universe whatsoever.



*big sigh* ... Okay, so, instead of giving value to the armor pieces you told us to farm for an absorbent amount of time since launch, SOMETHING / ANYTHING AT ALL, all of it is garbage and worth nothing to us in the scrap crapper. That's really rotten.



So, basically, you have to farm 2 M+? dungeons that drop 415 gear per one piece of azerite gear you actually want, but don't because it's 30 ilvls lower than the content you're farming, and it's not coming out till AFTER your big update patch? HOW IS THAT A SOLUTION TO ANYTHING!? Are you high? Are you -that- asinine? 165 x 4 = 660, and that's +15 which comes from previous scrappings, so that's at least 5 M+? dungeons for a single specific piece of gear!? And to EVENTUALLY farm random / specific gear that's worth anyone's time, that 415 SPECIFIC Azerite gear -PER PIECE- is going to be insanely expensive.

(I tried to do the math but it's late as of this post and I'm not good with advanced maths... came out to something like 12,000+ residuum so no...)



Every TWO OR THREE WEEKS... It'd be funny if it weren't so obviously bad and tragically sad.

So, they introduce a randomly thought-up resource with zero presidence in the lore, that could have potentially fixed your awful, major linchpin of this expansion (azerite gear). You then essentially make all the gear we've EARNED up until this time to be totally useless with this new system + currency. Compounding that you make everyone wait 11 more days to be able to start grinding (GRINDING, mind you) the gear you DO get something out of from really difficult M+ (Which most people I know of don't do because of a toxic, elitist asshat community of M+ dungeon-grinders) and a pittance from the weekly challenge chest. And to top it all off, the prices for gear you ACTUALLY WANT will be at a PREMIUM-premium price x times the amount of random pieces which are still laughably expensive themselves.

So... thanks for nothing Blizz. I hope you like sucking on that big ole fat corporate meatstick from Activision, you spineless puppets.

Holy ragepost batman... What lore did badges have? Badge of justice? Badge of valor? Frost badge? etc? You don't have a point as far as lore goes. Current lore is being built, they are not going off of WC1-3 stuff right now, thus far, you have absolutely NO point.

How is this different from the past few expacs? Legion we farmed the same gear from M+ the entire expac. Other expacs we farmed badges to buy the previous tiers valor gear to gear up... Soo.. I really don't get where you are going with this. What did we do with the gear we farmed before when we replaced it..? Vendor it? DE it..?

M+ does not drop azerite gear at the end of the dungeon. I don't think you've played very much of this expac if you didn't know that... you can farm regular mythic for a chance at the lowest ilvl azerite pieces and WQs, sure, but they do not drop out of any level M+. Right now they only have a chance of dropping from the cache. Soooo, again, I do not see your point.

That sounds about right, do you remember in wrath and cata how many frost/valor badges/points you got? It took 2-3 weeks per piece... Same with conquest. You have, literally, again, absolutely, no point.

Every content patch makes all the gear you previously had pointless and garbage by the standard of the new current content. It has been like that since Wotlk. I don't think you do high keys either... I literally leveled a monk 3 weeks ago, am at 362 ilvl, and I heal +10s and +11s in time. The community is the worst part of this game, that is the only thing I can agree with you on. BUT... that is because we do not want our time wasted. Btw, I'm a casual player :P. So, we get that you are mad. It's okay. Take a break from the game. I love azerite gear, I love not having to get 4 piece tier to be remotely relevant in dps. Complain complain complain, it is better than the previous system. Cheer up pal, or stop playing. I think the game may end up being in a better place the more of you guys that leave.