Blizzard DID listen.

[dacoolist]

Those are good. Maybe if raiders weren't anti social some of those changes wouldn't have been needed.

Where did it come off that raiders were anti social though? Also what is considered a raider I guess.. I mean LFR is looking for Raid, and you can actually legit AFK LFR.. so I guess LFR, Normal, Heroic, MyTHICC is considered a raider.. but I mean I don't want to seem like I'm attacking, I just wanted to know where someone feels like blizzard adjusted stuff in game due to raiders being anti social

[Deleted]

Basically, we have hit an era in the WoW community where hating is considered popular, so a lot of people will go out of their way to find tedious reasons to throw shit at Blizzard. This is partially because of the Diablo Immortal fiasco, and idiots don't seem to realize that Blizzards PR team aren't the same people that are developing WoW.

This doesn't mean the game is flawless. I personally don't enjoy the artifact grind, and I don't like the class pruning. My class (Warlock) was a lot more fun 2-3 expansions ago, it feels weird that they would make it less fun for no proper reason other than "dumbing it down".

Also, the fact that Island and Warfronts weren't succesfull is kinda kek tbh, but doesn't make the game unplayable.

[Deleted]

Where did it come off that raiders were anti social though? Also what is considered a raider I guess.. I mean LFR is looking for Raid, and you can actually legit AFK LFR.. so I guess LFR, Normal, Heroic, MyTHICC is considered a raider.. but I mean I don't want to seem like I'm attacking, I just wanted to know where someone feels like blizzard adjusted stuff in game due to raiders being anti social

in the olden days most players were interested in playing the game instead of being 1337 raiders.
When LFR came out you had raiders raiding it in an attempt to ninja everything they could. LFR was a result of dead realms which made things worse.

Now we have even more toxic players that are of a completely different character than the original players.

[arkanon]

Basically, we have hit an era in the WoW community where hating is considered popular, so a lot of people will go out of their way to find tedious reasons to throw shit at Blizzard. This is partially because of the Diablo Immortal fiasco, and idiots don't seem to realize that Blizzards PR team aren't the same people that are developing WoW.

This doesn't mean the game is flawless. I personally don't enjoy the artifact grind, and I don't like the class pruning. My class (Warlock) was a lot more fun 2-3 expansions ago, it feels weird that they would make it less fun for no proper reason other than "dumbing it down".

Also, the fact that Island and Warfronts weren't succesfull is kinda kek tbh, but doesn't make the game unplayable.

if "playable" is the standard you hold your games to, i think you might be part of the problem.

[Deleted]

if "playable" is the standard you hold your games to, i think you might be part of the problem.

You either completely missunderstood what my point was or you are intentionally trying to start a fight by being an ass.

Which is it?

[Alcsaar]

Alt progression in legion was awful: It took them 3 content patches to fix that.

Artifact Power system in general was awful - They BROUGHT THE SYSTEM BACK in BFA. It is STILL awful.

Even if they do listen - which they really don't - you can't wait 6-12 months to fix an issue.

BFA will have been out for 4 months as of tomorrow - we've seen minimal class balance changes to bring everyone closer together. Specific specs are still dominating all aoe while also competing on single target. Some specs are just awful to play. 8.1 was toted as "the fix - the big balace patch" for all of this. The only thing we are seeing in 8.1 are some VERY minor number tuning and some talent changes - all of which could have been done before 8.1, and none of which solve the major problems some classes are having.

If your wife asks you to take the garbage out, and you take it out 3 days later, she's going to be pissed. Not because you didn't listen, but because you took your sweet ass time doing it and it was too late to matter.

[unlockedz]

Again a topic complaining about absolutely nothing. Only thing i see as brutal is alt progression but it's not even half as bad as legion.
On draenor i logged in to raid with friends, ultimately i was logging in to raid with guild/farm plant to have flasks/prepots. Then on legion i logged in for guild raid/AP farm/some m+ farming for a trinket->only weekly m+ after trinket. Herb farming for prepots/flask and the additional guild m+ every week or so.
And to all of you complaining this game is casual and whatnot, every one of my friends left the game because of lack of time, i consider people are just moving on/getting old and that's life. bfa or not i expect the same shit would have happened.
Now i log in for raiding/AP farm/m+ and on some pug friendly weeks i do a few more m+/herb farming once a week maybe.
The game has felt pretty linear for me on what it offers to be honest. I expect BFA to get more fun(azerite armor wise) as tiers advance.

[Alcsaar]

Again a topic complaining about absolutely nothing. Only thing i see as brutal is alt progression but it's not even half as bad as legion.
On draenor i logged in to raid with friends, ultimately i was logging in to raid with guild/farm plant to have flasks/prepots. Then on legion i logged in for guild raid/AP farm/some m+ farming for a trinket->only weekly m+ after trinket. Herb farming for prepots/flask and the additional guild m+ every week or so.
And to all of you complaining this game is casual and whatnot, every one of my friends left the game because of lack of time, i consider people are just moving on/getting old and that's life. bfa or not i expect the same shit would have happened.
Now i log in for raiding/AP farm/m+ and on some pug friendly weeks i do a few more m+/herb farming once a week maybe.
The game has felt pretty linear for me on what it offers to be honest. I expect BFA to get more fun(azerite armor wise) as tiers advance.

My issue is this:

I like raiding. I raid through heroic because its what I have the time to progress through. Once we completed heroic, I was pretty done. Nothing else in the game pulls my interest. The only thing even reasonably close is arena pvp - and you have to play very specific comps and have team mates who are reliable and you get along with.

Mythic+ dungeons are okay, but it gets to a point where running one +10 a week is the only thing you need to do. You're very unlikely to get gear upgrades from titanforging. There is no reward for pushing above 10s (no achievement, no unique mount, no transmog sets).

World quests are boring and offer boring rewards. Azerite power is boring. Island Expeditions are EXTRA boring and unrewarding. Why can't we get decent gear from Island's on a regular basis? Especially for alts.

In the past I've always kept my interest by rolling and gearing alts during off-time. Now, I can't even bring myself to do that because alts will be so far behind in progression. I'm no longer capped by gear, I'm capped by azerite power. I had to sit an entire content patch for them to just make the damn neck item level account wide; and then they also want me to recomplete the boring war campaign quests to get the flight points on the opposite faction islands all over again. No thanks.

[A Blue Smurf]

I'll dissent a little bit on that. "Character progression" that resets with each new expansion is like a magic trick that once you see it enough times it no longer works. The fact is that you can now catch up within the expansion without waiting for a new one. That makes more business sense.

But there's never really been character progression when that BiS piece from the last expansion was replaced with a green item in the next for hauling poop from one side of a farmer's field to the other. BfA is the seventh time that trick has been played. Nobody is fooled by it.

That's not entirely accurate but I know what you're saying. When I was saying character progression I was meaning in terms of you start at Tier A on Expansion 1 and you run it through to Tier Z on Expansion 1 while making all the relevant pitstops. That's gone. Now you just start at Tier A and run through to Tier A4 if you want because when Tier B comes out, Tier A is meaningless because there are no pitstops, only a catapult.

[arkanon]

You either completely missunderstood what my point was or you are intentionally trying to start a fight by being an ass.

Which is it?

"Also, the fact that Island and Warfronts weren't succesfull is kinda kek tbh, but doesn't make the game unplayable."

did i misunderstand something?

[MoanaLisa]

That's not entirely accurate but I know what you're saying. When I was saying character progression I was meaning in terms of you start at Tier A on Expansion 1 and you run it through to Tier Z on Expansion 1 while making all the relevant pitstops. That's gone. Now you just start at Tier A and run through to Tier A4 if you want because when Tier B comes out, Tier A is meaningless because there are no pitstops, only a catapult.

That's a relatively small slice of the entire player set. Most players don't raid. I don't know that there's any point to a system exactly like that for LFR.

[Kokolums]

The way I see it, sharding tech will be protected by Blizzard because someone in the company put it on their CV that they developed sharding tech. To remove it and label it a failure will hurt their CV. So it will never be removed. Instead they will go to the ends of the Earth to sell it as a good product. Their own CVs are more important than making a good game. This is why they will never remove the damn mission table either lol. That mission table is on someone's CV.

[Deleted]

"Also, the fact that Island and Warfronts weren't succesfull is kinda kek tbh, but doesn't make the game unplayable."

did i misunderstand something?

What I implied was that even though the new features wern't up to hype, you can still enjoy the game becaus inherintly warfronts and islands aren't trivial to the game.

[arkanon]

What I implied was that even though the new features wern't up to hype, you can still enjoy the game becaus inherintly warfronts and islands aren't trivial to the game.

Are you trying to say they ARE trivial to the game? Did you mean to say inherently? Im honestly even less confident i know what you are trying to say.

[MrKnubbles]

I think Blizzard is doing a great job. Most players are just never happy and they never will be.

[Deleted]

Are you trying to say they ARE trivial to the game? Did you mean to say inherently? Im honestly even less confident i know what you are trying to say.

Yes, are trivial. My bad.

[arkanon]

Yes, are trivial. My bad.

I certainly agree it SHOULD be trivial content, and gameplay wise it absolutely is. However the rewards carry a lot of weight for many ppl. A free 370, and unlimited 340+ loot is no joke for the very casual. And that spammable AP grind is the core of IE.

[Deleted]

I certainly agree it SHOULD be trivial content, and gameplay wise it absolutely is. However the rewards carry a lot of weight for many ppl. A free 370, and unlimited 340+ loot is no joke for the very casual. And that spammable AP grind is the core of IE.

Which is the problem. They shouldn't have rewards related to the current gearing model.

Imagine the WoD mission table, with all it's complexity, yet with rewards that didn't have anything to do with economy or character power. Kind of like a system of it's own unrelated to raids / PvP / dungeons etc. I'm talking companion hunting in dungeons, achievements, world exploring, perhaps even in raids. An RPG element for each individual character and rewards such as transmog, toys, pets and whatever else one can think of.
I'm quite certain such a thing would have been recieved way better than the Islands and Warfronts because they would attract players for being fun, not necessary. WoW needs more fun things to do outside of raiding / PvP because everything else becomes slaves to those pieces of content as everything you do is funneled towards your performance in Raiding and PvP.

[Deficineiron]

What's worse is that they're pulling the same trick every raid tier. BfA season 2 is doing it.

As much as I like to crap all over Classic servers, one of the things I like is no catch up mechanics. The only concession I would make is to allow catch up within an account, so alts wouldn't have to push through ALL the progression just to try a different class.

Give players something to sink their teeth into. To look forward to, but without being punishing, or wasteful. One of the biggest problems with AP is that so much of your work is marginalized by simply waiting a couple weeks.

I really think the game badly needs a form of progression thats longer term than week to week. Blizzard practically abandons and marginalizes everything except the current patch, and that is badly hurting the game and any possible sense of accomplishment or investment a player might have.

I suspect that internally having the highest possible participation/.completion metrics on new content, particularly raid content, is important, and the way to get that is make sure everyone almost has to be running the latest raid, always.

[arkanon]

Which is the problem. They shouldn't have rewards related to the current gearing model.

Imagine the WoD mission table, with all it's complexity, yet with rewards that didn't have anything to do with economy or character power. Kind of like a system of it's own unrelated to raids / PvP / dungeons etc. I'm talking companion hunting in dungeons, achievements, world exploring, perhaps even in raids. An RPG element for each individual character and rewards such as transmog, toys, pets and whatever else one can think of.
I'm quite certain such a thing would have been recieved way better than the Islands and Warfronts because they would attract players for being fun, not necessary. WoW needs more fun things to do outside of raiding / PvP because everything else becomes slaves to those pieces of content as everything you do is funneled towards your performance in Raiding and PvP.

Imagine if we had reacted like most on here and gone spastic at each other when we thought we disagreed, only to find out we actually AGREE with each other. I have said it in a bunch of threads, they have added SO many cosmetic items in game, and even created multiple, awesome means of obtaining said items, and then muddied the waters by instead having EVERYTHING reward extremely high ilvl gear.

Yes, the classes are bad, but i personally believe the GEARING progression is the biggest issue with BfA.