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  1. #621
    Quote Originally Posted by wegwacc View Post
    I can't quite decide...

    Either you are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome, or you are desperatly trying to rationalize the dumb decision to buy the piece of crap called BfA. Neither speaks well of you.

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    Suits me.

    The fewer "LF Tank M+6 checking rio 1200+ no retards" morons we have in our new game, the better.
    i guess my favorite part about WoW classic is that all the people who hate retail have to pay for it to be able to play classic. Irony.

  2. #622
    Legendary! Fahrenheit's Avatar
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    I think there will some hype at the start, but the active player #s will plummet pretty quickly. I'd be shocked if after 6-9 month we'd have more the 50-75k active users in each region, and less than 250k world wide.
    Rudimentary creatures of blood and flesh. You touch my mind, fumbling in ignorance, incapable of understanding.
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  3. #623
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by dcc626 View Post
    i guess my favorite part about WoW classic is that all the people who hate retail have to pay for it to be able to play classic. Irony.
    The reverse is true as well, so joke's on you. There are a lot more dumb sheep in Retail than there will be players in Classic. You are funding our favorite game, not the other way round.

  4. #624
    Quote Originally Posted by dcc626 View Post
    i guess my favorite part about WoW classic is that all the people who hate retail have to pay for it to be able to play classic. Irony.
    If you pay a sub that includes both and only play Classic what difference does it make? Blizzard doesn't need me to keep my money away as a sign of protest, they are very good at keeping players away right now themselves.

  5. #625
    Quote Originally Posted by Fahrenheit View Post
    I think there will some hype at the start, but the active player #s will plummet pretty quickly. I'd be shocked if after 6-9 month we'd have more the 50-75k active users in each region, and less than 250k world wide.
    Nostradamas right here.

    Or should I say, Nostalriusdamas?

  6. #626
    Deleted
    The original game will have a dedicated crowd for a while. Maybe for a long while.

    There will certainly be an influx of players at launch, many of those will either return to retail, while others will just go back to the "non subbed" status, but many will stay, in their time capsule were everything is feeling "just about right".

    That was the original wow in the bottom line, a parallel reality were the bonds between the player and his fictional alter ago were deep enough to matter, and make him keep returning for more.

  7. #627
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    I don't think anyone believes subscription numbers will head back into the 10M range, but I for one expect classic to wind up (after the initial bump and settling down time) with a larger active population than BfA by a mile and for it to retain that population for a good year or longer. Classic obviously can't expand beyond BC, because the expansions after BC went down the same rabbit hole that left us with the current state of affairs. Nobody wants to repeat that.

    BfA is dead... there is no recovery for it, honestly. Depending on how well classic does, Blizzard will have to choose how to progress the modern game in the next expansion. Whether to continue their existing mantra or instead re-adapt classic playstyle, mechanics, itemization, gear progression, difficulty, and everything else BACK into the modern game for their next expansion. Blizzard could even create hard-mode servers for the next modern expansion that mimic classic's playstyle, and easy-mode servers for the rest of the player base. Blizzard could even reset the game so the next expansion starts post-BC instead of post-BfA. Blizzard has lots of options, and hopefully Classic will wake them up to that fact. I hope, by now, that Blizzard realizes that they've completely destroyed what faith players kept for all these years.

    In terms of players getting bored with classic... Well, I sure won't be bored! I'm sure many modern players whom blizzard has programmed into just siting around in cities auto-queuing for free loot won't like the classic-level of difficulty or involvement. I am just as sure that there are even more players, like me, will love to return to classic, and probably even a good chunk of players who stopped playing entirely years ago will return as well. Instant gratification is not fulfilling... Bliz has essentially put the final nail in the instant-gratification coffin with BfA. If they don't change, the franchise is dead.

    It won't be 10M, but I really think it will exceed modern game numbers until the next expansion... and the next expansion will be something that Blizzard cannot afford to get wrong because it will literally make or break the game. If it goes south, that's the end of the franchise. The permanent end. Blizzard will be watching the classic re-release very carefully. I think they already realize that they have seriously damaged the modern game, but I don't think they yet realize just how bad that damage is. It's been building up for a long time. Bliz has a lot of work ahead of itself and because of that they have to let Classic run its course and not rush the next expansion. Classic is giving them enough runway to redeem themselves post-BfA, if they accept that they've screwed up royally the last few years.

    -Matt

  8. #628
    Legendary! FuxieDK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbonTax View Post
    I don't think anyone believes subscription numbers will head back into the 10M range, but I for one expect classic to wind up with a larger active population than BfA by a mile and for it to retain that population for a good year or longer.
    HAHAHAHA!!!!

    This really made my day.. Classic will maybe, MAYBE, got to 10% of retail, but that's just in the first few months, until people find their rose tinted glasses are actually more turd brown, then it will fall to 2-5% of retail.
    Fact (because I say so): TBC > Cata > Legion > MoP > BfA > WoD = WotLK

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  9. #629
    About this big;



    But that's just my estimate.

  10. #630
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    What is it exactly that you think will keep people on retail? There is literally no game left to play beyond strutting around capital cities wearing transmog gear and a super-sized mount. Bliz has pretty much destroyed every other aspect of the game.

    -Matt

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nostromo93 View Post
    WoW Classic would be a desaster, if released as an independent/stand-alone game.
    But WoW Classic will live and last, because it's integrated into the current WoW game client and server infrastructure.

    It's a win for classic enthusiast: They get, what they want, running on modern computers, and having the original Blizzard mob mechanics.
    And a win for blizzard: More player that pay the monthly fee. More MAU.

    At BlizzCon they created 20 classic demo realms per region.
    On the EU realms 3 instead of 20 would have been enough.
    They even removed the time limit within the first 24 hours.

    So, don't expect a loss in BfA players and millions of new Classic players.

    Just enjoy WoW Classic. It wouldn't exist without retail WoW.
    This is late and it may have been said already but you could only play the classic demo if you had a real or a virtual blizzcon ticket. The virtual ticket (for people not actually going to the conn) cost something like $50. I would have loved to play the demo but I wasn't going to blow $50 just for a few days on a demo that I felt Bliz should have opened up to everyone in the first place. I would have happily subbed for it. It was worth $15 for a few days of fun, but not $50. And, honestly, I think most players were already getting a bit miffed by Blizzard's cash grab by that point.

    This makes the demo numbers basically meaningless.

    the private server numbers are more meaningful. Most of the play on the private servers seems to be focused on PVP, but you have to keep in mind that the private servers actually have had relatively stable populations for a long time, and many will shutdown once Bliz releases classic. By that measure player populations on the private servers are actually quite important. Those people for the most part aren't going to care about 'free'... they will happily fork over for the Wow release and a subscription.

    Apparently there are some people on this forum who think Classic is just a temporary distraction. I don't know if these people ever played classic back in the day (doing a level 1 push in the modern game doesn't even remotely replicate the classic experience). But I can assure you all that whatever happens, its not going to be trivial in any way. A lot of people will be playing it for a lot more than a few weeks. I plan on spending about a year of casual play on classic myself and I have no plans to play retail at all during that period. The only way I'll be going back to retail is if Blizzard completely retools it to bring back all the elements they had dumbed down and removed over the years because honestly the modern game just isn't all that much fun to play.

    Back in the day, playing classic was a very casual experience for most players. There were always a subset of the population that were hardcore and would speed-level, but frankly most people were casual and leveled slowly. They took the time to build their professions, explore, etc. There are a lot of things to do in classic, because nearly all aspects of play are meaningful in ways that just don't exist in the modern game. And there is no need to rush when people know what the ILVL caps are going to be. If anything, the far more compressed ILVL ranges in classic progression make PVP all that much more fun because even if someone is ganking one scream for help often brings a couple of high-level, evenly-matched geared players into the fray on both sides.

    The casuals of old could complain as loud as any modern player about unfairness in PVP, or dungeons, or RAIDing... but frankly classic was still far better balanced when you compare it against the modern game and there were plenty of casuals who could mix it up with dedicated players in PVP, too. I do not consider the modern game to be more fun, and I'll be happy to be rid of the instant-gratification whiners that seem to permeate the modern game. That alone makes it worth playing classic.

    -Matt

  11. #631
    I don't think a dime should be diverted from the current game's budget to pay for a 15 year old version of the game. Honestly if it starts to eat into current wow's budget I hope they slap on a fee for the vanilla servers. Idc if people hate the game right now, the last excuse I want to hear them use is 'funding.'

    Also, people really overestimate how popular 'Classic' is going to be. It's not going to be a current wow killer by any stretch of the imagination. People will rush to play it for about a month, maybe two then poof. The only people remaining with be the blowhards that sit upon their thrones of nostalgia pretending they are the pinnacle of wow players. No dev working on the current game needs to worry about 'Classic wow' putting their job in jeopardy and anyone who thinks that is beyond foolish.
    Last edited by Nuggsy; 2019-01-23 at 07:41 AM.
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  12. #632
    Quote Originally Posted by CarbonTax View Post
    This is late and it may have been said already but you could only play the classic demo if you had a real or a virtual blizzcon ticket. The virtual ticket (for people not actually going to the conn) cost something like $50. I would have loved to play the demo but I wasn't going to blow $50 just for a few days on a demo that I felt Bliz should have opened up to everyone in the first place. I would have happily subbed for it. It was worth $15 for a few days of fun, but not $50. And, honestly, I think most players were already getting a bit miffed by Blizzard's cash grab by that point.
    $50? I paid EUR 39.99 (that's $33 without sales tax).

    I buy the ticket every year to get access to the video streams. The classic demo was nice to have, but boring after two hours.

    You don't really think that Blizzard tried to get you to pay $50 just for the classic demo?...
    WoW is a game, not an addiction.

  13. #633
    Quote Originally Posted by Nostromo93 View Post
    WoW is a game, not an addiction.
    That sums up everything that's wrong with the current game.

    A great MMO should make you want to lose your job, ruin your social life and get divorced because you can't stop playing it.

  14. #634
    Quote Originally Posted by CarbonTax View Post
    I don't think anyone believes subscription numbers will head back into the 10M range
    I have repeatedly said they will go to 10 million. They will go way OVER 10 million. BUT on one condition: They don't start adding stuff like sharding, phasing, cross-realm etc. They are already talking about adding sharding. If they do that, it helps destroy the in-game community which is the sacred cow.

    There is only ONE WAY to fuck this up, and they are heading right in that direction lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    I was bored with the Horde civil war plot in BfA the moment it started. Its a rehash. I'm expecting them it to be like 99% similar to the Garrosh story & then they do Shyamalan swerve at the end & then we'll see a bunch of comments & videos from people telling me "see its not 100% the same!" when that wasn't the complaint -- its TOO similar to the Garrosh plot.

  15. #635
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    Well, as much as I would love to see subscription numbers hit 10M+ again in the modern game, I don't think its in the cards. Blizzard doesn't have the vision to pull that off any more. When WoW was originally released its only real competition was Everquest, and even that was not so much because the EQ at the time was really slow and sludgy and required video hardware that very few people actually had, whereas WoW ran on just about anything at 30-60fps right out of the box. FFXI also came out at around the same time as a console adaption to windows with a very poor emulator and couldn't gain much traction. WoW didn't really have any real competition for years afterwords.

    In WoW's middle age competition began to ramp up. GuildWars / GW2 pulled away a lot of people for example. Conan (2008 I think) tried to snatch market share but failed after a week or two for not being innovative enough (not being able to compete with WoW on game mechanics, for example). There was also WarHammer and a few other games.

    But everything changes and in modern times not only are there several other very good, popular MMOs in the same sort of genre, there are also a dozen other well made high-graphics-impact games, not necessarily MMIOs, such as tomb-raider (to name just one) that pull eyeballs away from WoW. Also, the modern version of WoW is really more of a collection game (to borrow the phrase) than it is a MMO, and caters to a type of casual player that would be just as happy playing pokemon as WoW. This greatly increases the universe of competition pulling eyeballs away from WoW.

    In the grand scheme of things I think MMOs, while interesting to us (I personally have no interest in playing Pokemon or even Tomb-raider), are actually far less interesting to kids growing up these days than other types of games. Blizzard is trying to shift WoW into a space where there is heavy competition and out of the space that its die-hard fans originally bought the game for. It's a very, very dangerous move for Blizzard and in that respect the Classic re-release (going back to its roots) is going to be a major litmus test for Bliz. It doesn't need to have 'new' content when most current players have never tried it. And it will inform Blizzard's decision making for years to come. That's why it is so important. IMHO if Classic fails the modern game is probably going to die too. It will be the end of the line for WoW.

    -Matt

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