why are 90% of all pug rogues

[begemoc]

Because Rogues like myself who are 8/8m and put out about 16-21k in overall damage in M+ don’t always have 1500 scores. RaiderIO is a gift and a curse in this regard.

I don’t find M+ particularly fun atm and I burned myself out last expansion so I just do my weekly albeit I know all the instances, put out good damage and do a few with the hardcore runners in my guild. However, when I jump in a pug I often get declined for have a 980 IO score. I do get in a group pretty quickly due to being a Rogue and my ilvl/raid progress but usually people are surprised by my damage. Just because someone does a lot of M+ doesn’t nexessarily make them good and just because someone doesn’t spam them doesn’t make them bad.

Maybe next time take a look at Warcraft logs instead of just judging someone based on their score. Perhaps that will be a better indicator / help a ������������*♂️

Raiding score really does not mean that much in m+ environment same as m+ score doesn't mean much in raiding.
They are two completely different game aspects. In raiding you do not change the way you approach trash pulls/boss fights on weekly basis.
As a raider you don't worry about explosive, bolstering, bursting, skittish, sanguine or many other deadly affixes that will catch you offguard if you don't know about them or are not sure to deal with them.
Dungeon routes can change weekly due to infested mob placement in the dungeon etc etc
If you play a rogue and you don't know what to say, where to shroud, who to interrupt or kidney all that 8/8M means nothing.

Also, you do not get high score because you do a lot of M+... you can do one +15 dungeon IN TIME a week and you will have 1600 score or you can spam multiple +10's daily deplete them and be stuck at 900 score.

[Crookids]

I have done plenty of dungeons with 8/8M raiders which have gone to shit because they didn’t knew the mechanics of the specific trash or how to pull correctly. They didn’t know which targets to CC and which to focus. Sure they did high damage but that doesn’t help if they don’t know how to handle themselves in the specific dungeon. M+ is more about knowledge than skill and damage.

I’m of course not saying this applies to you, but you have to understand that there are plenty of high end raiders which are shit in M+. They think that they can just join a high key and complete it without any knowledge of the specific dungeon.

Oh for sure. I'm not indicating that my raid progress suddenly makes me amazing in mythic plus. I am just saying how RaiderIO isn't as clear of an indicator anymore as there are good players that haven't really been engaging as much in the score pushing etc. There are also people that are paying for score and the like.

You're also mentioning high keys which I feel is a false equivalence in this discussion. High keys is a different beast entirely and I completely agree.

- - - Updated - - -

Raiding score really does not mean that much in m+ environment same as m+ score doesn't mean much in raiding.
They are two completely different game aspects. In raiding you do not change the way you approach trash pulls/boss fights on weekly basis.
As a raider you don't worry about explosive, bolstering, bursting, skittish, sanguine or many other deadly affixes that will catch you offguard if you don't know about them or are not sure to deal with them.
Dungeon routes can change weekly due to infested mob placement in the dungeon etc etc
If you play a rogue and you don't know what to say, where to shroud, who to interrupt or kidney all that 8/8M means nothing.

Also, you do not get high score because you do a lot of M+... you can do one +15 dungeon IN TIME a week and you will have 1600 score or you can spam multiple +10's daily deplete them and be stuck at 900 score.

Yeah, I don't disagree. My reply above applies to your comment as well. I find it's far better to take a look at someone's experience in a particular dungeon as opposed to their score. For example, if I'm dong Underrot and I see a 950 who has cleared a few Underrots on time above a 10 I'll invite them. The OP was also talking about Rogues he's invited being terrible. There is a clear difference, at least in my experience, to someone who misses an interrupt or doesn't know where to shroud but puts up good numbers and is able to adapt due to being a generally good player than someone who is "terrible".

There are a few dungeons I wing considering I haven't pushed this season and given my preparedness via particular weak auras and addons, I am able to adapt and pick up particular mechanics quickly. Albeit, I would never try to do this to a group doing a 15 or something but for a 10-12 in a place I've only been once or twice, I am usually fine.

[ymirsson]

As far as i understand it, a 10 or 12 is like HC raiding. If you're competent, not excellent, just someone with a brain, you can get by even without deeper knowledge.

You wouldn't invite someone to a mythic raid just based on his IO score either.

[Kaver]

Oh for sure. I'm not indicating that my raid progress suddenly makes me amazing in mythic plus. I am just saying how RaiderIO isn't as clear of an indicator anymore as there are good players that haven't really been engaging as much in the score pushing etc. There are also people that are paying for score and the like.

You're also mentioning high keys which I feel is a false equivalence in this discussion. High keys is a different beast entirely and I completely agree.

Okay I think we pretty much agree.

From experience I just find that a player with an IO score of 800 is a bad player (who doesn't know what to do) 98 % of the time.

- - - Updated - - -

As far as i understand it, a 10 or 12 is like HC raiding. If you're competent, not excellent, just someone with a brain, you can get by even without deeper knowledge.

There are some specific tactics which you really should know in order to succeed.

I saw a stream with a mythic raider trying to do a +15 Freehold without any knowledge of the dungeon... let's just say, it was a shit show. And Freehold is even one of the easier dungeons.

[Razzako]

FOTM

/thread

Flavor of the Month?

Rogues have always been popular, more like flavor of the game lol.

[Eazy]

Mythic+ =/= raiding.

I once beat a guy in the M+12(in the Legion) and in the end he just went "you guys suck, I'm 9/11M raider" and left, kek.

[Donimic]

Because Rogues like myself who are 8/8m and put out about 16-21k in overall damage in M+ don’t always have 1500 scores. RaiderIO is a gift and a curse in this regard.

I don’t find M+ particularly fun atm and I burned myself out last expansion so I just do my weekly albeit I know all the instances, put out good damage and do a few with the hardcore runners in my guild. However, when I jump in a pug I often get declined for have a 980 IO score. I do get in a group pretty quickly due to being a Rogue and my ilvl/raid progress but usually people are surprised by my damage. Just because someone does a lot of M+ doesn’t nexessarily make them good and just because someone doesn’t spam them doesn’t make them bad.

Maybe next time take a look at Warcraft logs instead of just judging someone based on their score. Perhaps that will be a better indicator / help a ������������*♂️

You could say the same thing about raid experience, although generally it only works in the way that hurts the individual. Yes, there are a lot of people that have around a 1000 score that are pretty damn good but haven't farmed up the score but the odds of someone having 1500+ or 1800+ and being worse than the 1000 player are extremely low. It has nothing to do with individual skill potential, but simply that they have seen the mechanics MUCH more often, and at a higher level than you.

IO score is nothing than a simplification, or summary, of how much effort you put into M+, just like your 8/8M status signifies how much effort you put into raiding. If someone was applying to raid with you, assuming you only get about 1-5 min to make a decision, you will always take the 8/8M app over the 1/8M app. Its the exact same thing as taking the 1500IO over a 1000IO. Using warcraft logs for your M+ PuG is a joke. I dont think I have ever not timed a key sub-16 because of dps. General mechanics or making a mistake is ALWAYS the problem.

[ihate2beapessimist]

Elitism in a dying game is just insanity.

[RobertMugabe]

so bad. As title says, im amazed how bad the average rogue player is in this game, im talking about m+ mostly. I been doing about 20 keys a week and 9/10 rogues that join my grps all from 1200 score to 1600 score rogues are all performing so terribly bad dps wise, their single target is absolutly shit, their overall dmg is frightning bad. How can the rogue community be so mediocre. I made this post because i wanna share my experiences and i grown tired of all these extremly bad m+ rogue players within the 1500 raider.io score bracket.

DH and rogue are pretty much the best melee dps for m+ and they're also insanely fun to play... so that's why.