Are "Triple A" gaming companies liquidating their current audience?

[Sencha]

AAA titles are too casual and boring these days.

[Waltar]

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/c...ard/net-income

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Uh...you got any sauce for that claim? Because even with Blizzard having a weaker year than usual I've seen nothing that indicates it's anywhere that low. Hell, 2018 revenue numbers haven't even been bloody announced yet.

https://investor.activision.com/news...2017-financial

That's last years, and not only do they not differentiate between Activision and Blizzard revenue, but their combined revenue was $7B. You have a tall mountain to climb to convince me that Activision and King made up $6.7B in revenue and Blizzard only contributed $300M.

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/c...ard/net-income

even their wiki page shows their net income they also just layed a bunch of people off so their trying to cut costs

[Tekkommo]

I'm more leaning towards gamers are spoiled brats.

Games are made by companies, who want to make money. I'm shocked that's what they try to do

Gaming has never been cheaper. Games haven't risen in cost with inflation, loads of F2P games on the market. World of Warcraft is probably one of the most expensive games to play due to the sub. If you are a long term player, just look at your transaction history.

My 10 year old niece likes to play Roblox all the time. Not spent any money at all, yet she loves it, and that games has loads of different games in it, and it's all free (from what I can tell the cash shop is comestic or to get VIP access in some games, from what I've checked, the VIP access hardly gives you anything). When I was her age, I had went through multiple Atari systems and 100s of games my parents had to buy, and it was only me that used that system. The PC that my niece plays Roblox on, would be owned even if she had zero interest in computers, as it's for the entire family.

Gamers used to have to go to the arcade to play games, that could add up to cost a lot of money. Games could cost £50 in the 90s, imagine the cost if games rose with inflation. Games certainly haven't gotten cheaper to make on average.

Every year, gaming has shit games and good games, sometimes fantastic games. People have complained about it since the 80s.

End of the day though, the blame lies with the consumers. We wouldn't have all these shit mobile games that require VIP access to get anywhere in them if people didn't spend money on them. These type of games are mass produced because they make money.

Sub based games more or less died because consumers wouldn't spend money on it and became successful "F2P" games. I can only think of WoW and FF requiring a sub to play. Yet these 2 sub based games also have cash shops, which consumers are more than happy to spend money on, so they will continue.

[stevenho]

I'm more leaning towards gamers are spoiled brats.

This.
Too many "content creators" (lol) making a living from crying about stuff.

[dope_danny]

Western AAA has spent the last few years altering a lot of their games in preperation for the chinese market. Theres an industry white whale, ironically, that says theres "100 million whales waiting to make minibuys in china" and just like how PC gaming in particular became nothing but a begrudged obligation this gen western consumers as a whole have been a vestigial left over getting ready to be dropped for richer waters to cast bait in for a few years.

But then China's ministry of culture had an internal shakeup and now its banning shit like fortnite and most western tencent games so fully expect 2019 to have damage control from a few of these companies trying to fallback to their audience they treated like shit after the bouncer stopped them getting into the new club with all the mobile game thots with deep purses.

[Arrashi]

I'm more leaning towards gamers are spoiled brats.

I love mentality of "Customer is always right....unless its game industry. Then they shut the fuck up and consume."

[Shalaator]

I'm more leaning towards gamers are spoiled brats.

Games are made by companies, who want to make money. I'm shocked that's what they try to do

Gaming has never been cheaper. Games haven't risen in cost with inflation, loads of F2P games on the market. World of Warcraft is probably one of the most expensive games to play due to the sub. If you are a long term player, just look at your transaction history.

My 10 year old niece likes to play Roblox all the time. Not spent any money at all, yet she loves it, and that games has loads of different games in it, and it's all free (from what I can tell the cash shop is comestic or to get VIP access in some games, from what I've checked, the VIP access hardly gives you anything). When I was her age, I had went through multiple Atari systems and 100s of games my parents had to buy, and it was only me that used that system. The PC that my niece plays Roblox on, would be owned even if she had zero interest in computers, as it's for the entire family.

Gamers used to have to go to the arcade to play games, that could add up to cost a lot of money. Games could cost £50 in the 90s, imagine the cost if games rose with inflation. Games certainly haven't gotten cheaper to make on average.

Every year, gaming has shit games and good games, sometimes fantastic games. People have complained about it since the 80s.

End of the day though, the blame lies with the consumers. We wouldn't have all these shit mobile games that require VIP access to get anywhere in them if people didn't spend money on them. These type of games are mass produced because they make money.

Sub based games more or less died because consumers wouldn't spend money on it and became successful "F2P" games. I can only think of WoW and FF requiring a sub to play. Yet these 2 sub based games also have cash shops, which consumers are more than happy to spend money on, so they will continue.

You say this as the top echelon on blizz emplyees walk away with 10 mil annually.

The cost of development is mostly inflated by the executives raising their own salaries.
Warcraft IV RTS couldnt cost morethan 15 to 20 mil to develop at true AAA quality

[Tekkommo]

You say this as the top echelon on blizz emplyees walk away with 10 mil annually.

The cost of development is mostly inflated by the executives raising their own salaries.
Warcraft IV RTS couldnt cost morethan 15 to 20 mil to develop at true AAA quality

And? Why should a corporate gaming company be any different from any other corporation?

[XDurionX]

Companies have ALWAYS been doing this. Sorry for you that you took so long to grasp how the world works. If you don't like a company, DON'T SUPPORT THEM, GASP.

[Greyvax]

I think the problem is that some of these AAA franchises are on their 4th or 5th (or even more) installments. They are running out of ideas to stay relevant.

I could see something like Diablo 4 being vaporware because what else can you do with the diablo universe to make it any different from D3?

[Thrif]

Well, all of those companies have been making progressively worse games for the past decade so there's nothing new there, but something lately definitely seem to sent put them all into overdrive with this "payers not players" and "make games for shareholders, not gamers" philosophies.

Maybe it's the promised land of chinese mobile games, or maybe it's just because they're getting so big they think they can get away with anything, no use in really speculating about the reasons since there's probably quite a few interwoven ones.

I'm just happy hearing about how shitty sales have been, and how quickly they had to cut pricing, for shitty games like BF5 and Fallout76. Gamers showing they're not happy in the only way that matters to these companies.

[Deleted]

We've EA, bethesda, Blizzard and several other [formally] great gaming companies do some pretty strange things these last couple of years.

Bethesda a great gaming company? Is noone recalling their infamous overpriced horse armour DLC? That is not a new practice for them, they just had a number of failures in short order and this time tried to grab more than they could chew. Plus other companies have been doing similar practices so people have less patience now.
But that's far from over. Both Skyrim and Fallout 4 were among the best selling VR games last year. There are still plenty of people willing to give Bethesda their money. There are plenty who give their money regularly to EA or Ubisoft for another CoD, FIFA or AC. As long as people are willing to pay for that kind of content they will be getting it.

The gaming industry is at war with gamers.

No, it's not. It's exploiting gamers. It's also exploiting its own employees and several such cases were revealed last year (Rockstar massive crunch while making RDR2, or the practices at Riot which should end up at court). Again, people are willing to pay for it so that's what they will get.
Personally I have stopped buying games from some companies. I will not allow my money to fund them. But as long as there are enough people who don't care and just want their fun no matter at whose expense it will be happening.

Blizzard decided to sell 1 year xp packs for HOTS only afew days before virtually pulling the plug on the franchise, therefore, before terminating HOTS (and yes I'm aware that the game is actually in "maintenance" mode), Blizzard decided to liquidate their customer base for whatever else they could get.

How exactly are they terminating the game? I'm not playing HotS so I don't check the related news so much, but it was my understanding that they were only removing it from e-sports, not shuting it down completely. While it will likely impact the number of players it is hardly "terminating" the game. e-sports are making a lot of noise but many players don't care about them at all.
Unless I've missed something and they are indeed closing the game, in which case I would be interested to see some more info.

[bloodwulf]

I love mentality of "Customer is always right....unless its game industry. Then they shut the fuck up and consume."

If you work in any customer facing industry you will learn the "Customer is always right" mentality is cancer and should be squashed. The customers are rarely right and should not be treated as such. I work IT in a metal manufacturing company, and the worst example of that is Automotive companies like Ford and Chrysler. They are my companies customers and they are entitled and conniving and always trying to get more product for less. Same applies for the retail industry where the customer thinks the product should be priced below profit margins.

It is no different than the video game industry, gamers keep wanting more and more, and the companies have more and more overhead. They also have not raised the price of a normal triple A title beyond $60 in years. Then people get pissed when the companies market DLC or extra content at a premium. Fucking even Arby's had to raise prices of sandwiches, video game industry is no different. Either game base prices will rise, DLC will be more common, or there will be a cash shop. Yes, they could save money by cutting C-Class salaries, but then they lose those same C-Class people to other companies that are willing to pay the salary. Execs wouldn't get paid millions if they did not provide some value to the company. If you think a developer is going to produce quality content by paying everyone's salary at below market average, you are deluding yourself. The thing about the video game industry is probably 75% of jobs are fluid enough that they can find work outside of the industry, which means as soon as the industry starts cutting people's salaries, they lose the good people.

[unbound]

I think there are a few things that people don't generally understand:

- AAA gaming companies are corporations. Corporations exist to make as much profit as possible for their shareholders. Full stop. The market they are in is simply the method by which to accomplish that goal...but never confuse their goal with the approach used to achieve that goal. (BTW, this isn't just an opinion on my part, it was actually drilled in me as part of my MBA from a top 50 school)

- A bit of nuance with the above point...the goal is to maximize profits, so that doesn't mean they are going to rip you off blind from the get go. The top executives of corporations very well know that they can't just get money from you for absolutely nothing. But it does mean that they will push the envelope to maximize those profits as much as they can. This means:

+ When they are not market dominating, then they will have to provide better quality (i.e. a compelling reason to buy from them over more established names)
+ When they are market dominating, then they will typically reduce quality to maximize margins as well as look for ways to milk more money out of their existing customer base

- A corporation only cares about you as long as you provide them with money. If they think some other group will provide more money, they will abandon you in a heartbeat. If they can, they will try to milk an older customer base in conjunction with the newer customer base. But have no illusions, they will focus on whatever customer base they think they can milk more from.

- They will typically only change course under a couple of conditions. Either a realistic threat of losing their customer base / money, or actually losing their customer base / money.

- To reiterate, AAA gaming companies are corporations...don't try to fool yourself into thinking they are something special or different from any other large corporation.

Once you understand this, the moves being made by the gaming companies make perfect sense. The old customer base (PCs) is not as large and the new customer base (mobile), and the new customer base spends more.

Here is reality, the 2018 global games market is broken down as follows:
- PC market: $32.9 billion (1.6% YoY growth)
- Console market: $34.6 billion (4.1% YoY growth)
- Mobile market: $70.3 billion (25.5% YoY growth)

And the mobile game market is expected to continue growing by double digits for another 5 years.

It isn't because PC games aren't profitable. Blizzard continues to make a lot of money from the PC market (as do the other AAA gaming companies). But they are not making *as much* as they used to, and they can make *even more* by shifting to the mobile market. They don't care about you anymore because they have a new sucker who has a fatter wallet that they are looking to court now.

Basically, the reality is this:

[Gaexion Ramza Beoulve]

If you're tired of this nonsense then just crash the market like we did in 83'.

No survivors.

[cuafpr]

well if they do they will fail and others will raise and hopefully learn. oh? they are making money still maybe the customer base is changing and the companies are changing to? which comes first the chicken or the egg.

[Projectmars]

I love mentality of "Customer is always right....unless its game industry. Then they shut the fuck up and consume."

The whole "Customer is always right" mentality is utter bullshit that leads to spineless managers caving in at the first whining of some customer with a stick up their ass trying to return something that policy states shouldn't be returned, painting the employee that dared earn said customer's ire as either mean/incompetent/bigoted by pointing out said policy and following it in the first place.

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If you work in any customer facing industry you will learn the "Customer is always right" mentality is cancer and should be squashed. The customers are rarely right and should not be treated as such. I work IT in a metal manufacturing company, and the worst example of that is Automotive companies like Ford and Chrysler. They are my companies customers and they are entitled and conniving and always trying to get more product for less. Same applies for the retail industry where the customer thinks the product should be priced below profit margins.

Pretty much. Glad there's a whole copyright law thing to back up the whole "No returns of opened DVDs/CDs" bit, else I woulda been left high and dry more times than I could count.

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If you're tired of this nonsense then just crash the market like we did in 83'.

No survivors.

So which game is going to be ET?

[Arrashi]

The whole "Customer is always right" mentality is utter bullshit that leads to spineless managers caving in at the first whining of some customer with a stick up their ass trying to return something that policy states shouldn't be returned, painting the employee that dared earn said customer's ire as either mean/incompetent/bigoted by pointing out said policy and following it in the first place.

Is it worse than spineless menagers who push for more exploitable mechanics, rewards themselves with multi milion bonuses just for existing and then jump the ship ?

[Realitytrembles]

If you work in any customer facing industry you will learn the "Customer is always right" mentality is cancer and should be squashed. The customers are rarely right and should not be treated as such. I work IT in a metal manufacturing company, and the worst example of that is Automotive companies like Ford and Chrysler. They are my companies customers and they are entitled and conniving and always trying to get more product for less. Same applies for the retail industry where the customer thinks the product should be priced below profit margins.

It is no different than the video game industry, gamers keep wanting more and more, and the companies have more and more overhead. They also have not raised the price of a normal triple A title beyond $60 in years. Then people get pissed when the companies market DLC or extra content at a premium. Fucking even Arby's had to raise prices of sandwiches, video game industry is no different. Either game base prices will rise, DLC will be more common, or there will be a cash shop. Yes, they could save money by cutting C-Class salaries, but then they lose those same C-Class people to other companies that are willing to pay the salary. Execs wouldn't get paid millions if they did not provide some value to the company. If you think a developer is going to produce quality content by paying everyone's salary at below market average, you are deluding yourself. The thing about the video game industry is probably 75% of jobs are fluid enough that they can find work outside of the industry, which means as soon as the industry starts cutting people's salaries, they lose the good people.

The customer is always right. If you don't treat them that way, they might stop being your customer.

As for your second paragraph: f the game companies. I don't care about their problems. I don't buy DLC or cosmetic crap, and if something goes up in price, I stop buying it. Vote with your wallet , I say. Just like I do with other businesses if they treat me with disrespect.

[GreenJesus]

Bethesda a great gaming company? Is noone recalling their infamous overpriced horse armour DLC? That is not a new practice for them, they just had a number of failures in short order and this time tried to grab more than they could chew. Plus other companies have been doing similar practices so people have less patience now.
But that's far from over. Both Skyrim and Fallout 4 were among the best selling VR games last year. There are still plenty of people willing to give Bethesda their money. There are plenty who give their money regularly to EA or Ubisoft for another CoD, FIFA or AC. As long as people are willing to pay for that kind of content they will be getting it.



No, it's not. It's exploiting gamers. It's also exploiting its own employees and several such cases were revealed last year (Rockstar massive crunch while making RDR2, or the practices at Riot which should end up at court). Again, people are willing to pay for it so that's what they will get.
Personally I have stopped buying games from some companies. I will not allow my money to fund them. But as long as there are enough people who don't care and just want their fun no matter at whose expense it will be happening.



How exactly are they terminating the game? I'm not playing HotS so I don't check the related news so much, but it was my understanding that they were only removing it from e-sports, not shuting it down completely. While it will likely impact the number of players it is hardly "terminating" the game. e-sports are making a lot of noise but many players don't care about them at all.
Unless I've missed something and they are indeed closing the game, in which case I would be interested to see some more info.

They also moved developers off of the game. When a game goes on "long term sustainability mode" as blizzard called it, queue times go way up. With esports dead ranked mode will become a waste land. No one plays it on twitch anymore. With games like this if the queue time is long then the game is effectively dead.