There is NO ilvl difference between 8/8M raiders and 0/8 M players

[Paulosio]

Why do you care? Gear is a means to an end, namely killing bosses.

If that's the only point of gear then why give it to people who don't even set foot in raids above LFR ? Even someone who doesn't do mythic plus or raid can get a gear level somewhere into the mid 370s without beyond normal RNG on forges.

Gear is a means to an end AND something that's meant to give you a sense of character progression... More difficult content should obviously be more rewarded. It's pretty obvious that the vast majority of players wouldn't be bothering to do the vast majority of the content more than once if there was no actual reward beyond that of completing the content.

Serious questions. What content do you do and what's your ilvl ? Do you bother doing repeatable content that rewards gear ?

[Mardux]

I hope you were being sarcastic because if not, damn, I don't know where to start picking that statement apart.

Its more cynicism than sarcasm. The person you quoted was responding to someone asking why it matters what gear someone else gets. The response of the person you quoted simply reiterated what OP had already stated.

[Deleted]

Are these high iLvL players trying to progress Mythic? Because if they are an failing, that's fuckin' hillarious.

[vsb]

This game has a serious problem rewarding people doing the most difficult content or even doing static group content. The differences are so marginal we cannot even use them as argument to incite people into challenging content we organize.

However OP should recognize that high rated PVP and high M+ are other forms of high level content and totally deserve equivalent rewards.

The funny thing is, high level M+ (20+) does NOT have equivalent rewards. It still drops 370 gear. What does have an equivalent reward is warfront, LOL!!! So if you're clearing high level M+, you're getting worse gear than someone who AFK's on warfront or does emissary quest. This is ridiculous state of the game indeed.

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It is really funny to see you cry when you're certainly among those who ban people from even trying Mythic raiding/+ using RIO lol

And that's exactly why we are using Rio instead of ilvl. Because ilvl means nothing nowadays! While rio is still provides value separating wheat from chaff.

[Nnyco]

Yes but raiding is hardest = should be only source of top end gear period.

So you sayin high end pvp isnt hard? Because gearing up in mythic+ beyond 370 is slooooow.

[majesta]

Tin Foil Hat: This is a conspiracy that Activision wants to kill raiding and save a boat of cash from not having to design boss encounters anymore. That is why they recycle world quests and other exisiting content for us casuals so we can be same ilvl as super hardcore raiders.

[Kieldon]

Mythic+ is a slower alternative to mythic raiding. I don't see the problem.

[haxartus]

This is pathetic. It really is. This is a progression game and it's slowly killing itself to appear to a smaller and smaller audience.

[Deleted]

People saying why do you care are just ridiculous. You see nothing wrong with a game where everyone is rewarded the same and every single person, even if they only raid normal, has the same gear? Loot is handed out for nothing, these days.

[Alphatorg]

You are clueless just like wow devs. Nobady was raiding jusr for fun. Players start raiding for exclusivity and better gear to progress their characters.There is nothing fun about wasting your time for fun. Raiding was popular becouse of its exclusivity no becouse people simply like it.

First of all mythic raiding still has plenty of exclusivity, just not in the form of gear. Secondly unlike you I actually raid mythic, so I think I have a better idea what motivates people. If you spend 10s of hours every week doing something you don't enjoy with the sole purpose of increasing an entirely meaningless number, then I think you should seek help.
I very much doubt that many serious mythic raiders have a problem with easily obtainable ilvl, they seperate themselves via world rank, hall of fame and logs, not ilvl. It's actually a very nice thing if you aren't just locked into your main, but also have easy access to competitive ilvls on twinks, so you can do M+ above retard levels with them, split raid or reroll fotm.

[Interim]

Topic QFT. Welcome to the new wow.

its the trophy for participation rule this younger generation is all about.

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First of all mythic raiding still has plenty of exclusivity, just not in the form of gear. Secondly unlike you I actually raid mythic, so I think I have a better idea what motivates people. If you spend 10s of hours every week doing something you don't enjoy with the sole purpose of increasing an entirely meaningless number, then I think you should seek help.
I very much doubt that many serious mythic raiders have a problem with easily obtainable ilvl, they seperate themselves via world rank, hall of fame and logs, not ilvl. It's actually a very nice thing if you aren't just locked into your main, but also have easy access to competitive ilvls on twinks, so you can do M+ above retard levels with them, split raid or reroll fotm.

i dunno, ive been cutting edge for alotta expansions now and every time i extend for the final boss or two, i got people asking to go back for a reclear for xxx piece of gear which is not only wholly irrelevant to progression, but is vendored in ~x weeks when the new tier drops.

gear is definitely a large factor.

[rrp.nikolai]

Do people seriously care about raiding so much that Ilvl is more important to you than clearing bosses? Wow.. Its a GAME DUDE.
Blizzard will do whatever they can to make money because spoilers, this game isn't built for you; it's built for money. Learn. Life. Spoilers. You are't the center of the universe like you think.
TL;DR Is this seriously where we are now? Just grow up. Imagine where you would be if you put this much effort into your real life job.

[Deleted]

A mythic raider will reach that ilvl early in a tier. A non-mythic player will reach that ilvl near the end of the tier. That is the difference and it counts for a lot.

Not sure about that, thanks to personal loot we were seeing massive ilvl disparities within the guild, it took a long time for it to flatten out. Might be better next tier though, some of the loot distribution was obnoxious in Uldir, like Mythrax being the only source of a mythic cloth chest and the two helms being on Fettid and Zul.

Do people seriously care about raiding so much that Ilvl is more important to you than clearing bosses? Wow.. Its a GAME DUDE.

Nothing in his post says it's more important than clearing bosses. It seems pretty reasonable that people would expect what has always been the most difficult and as a result rewarding content would continue to be the most rewarding.

God forbid we don't instantly act outraged though.

Blizzard will do whatever they can to make money because spoilers, this game isn't built for you; it's built for money. Learn. Life. Spoilers. You are't the center of the universe like you think.
TL;DR Is this seriously where we are now? Just grow up. Imagine where you would be if you put this much effort into your real life job.

Hello Pot.

[Feuerbart]

If you play for gear then raiding istn´t the correct thing to do anymore. So what? If you play for gear just do what´s best for that.

For me nothing beats killing mythic bosses with my guild. Gear is a tool. And whatever others have for tools shouldn´t bother you.

[Gavll]

Why do people care so much about what other people have in a Videogame?

Because it's supposed to be a virtual world. And in the real worlds there are haves and have nots. This should be replicated in the virtual world. This is part of the essence of an MMO. To be elitist

[nlc]

Mythic raiding is actually a pretty slow way to gear, outside the very top guilds, because you need to have most of the raid on farm before you can expect even 1 item per week on average. M+ on the other hand gives everything from the start: a decent chance at a 370+ item, a guaranteed 380+ item every week and a 385 azerite item guaranteed every 2 to 3 weeks. I think M+ has been really bad for raiding because the effort required to get the best gear is set so low. The best gear should require completed keys significantly higher than +10, IMO. I don't really care about catch-up gear at the end of the tier/season though; that's just letting people get up to speed for what's coming next.

[Alphatorg]

i dunno, ive been cutting edge for alotta expansions now and every time i extend for the final boss or two, i got people asking to go back for a reclear for xxx piece of gear which is not only wholly irrelevant to progression, but is vendored in ~x weeks when the new tier drops.

gear is definitely a large factor.

I don't think anyone is saying that gear is irelevant. But there is a big difference between seeing gear as a means to an end vs having to have 10 ilvls more than some random hc raider you don't even know as your only motivation.

[Interim]

Because it's supposed to be a virtual world. And in the real worlds there are haves and have nots. This should be replicated in the virtual world. This is part of the essence of an MMO. To be elitist

its part of being human, life even. survival of the fittest so to speak. In whatever form that takes in the present time/context.

but yes, wow has lost all its continuity from a pervasive world standpoint. Its why i call it world of diablocraft now more or less. Makes for a more-fun less cringy facebook for keeping in touch with friends for now though ;p

[vian]

Get off your pedestal, you're not special nor do you deserve special attention.

[kamuimac]

The funny thing is, high level M+ (20+) does NOT have equivalent rewards. It still drops 370 gear. What does have an equivalent reward is warfront, LOL!!! So if you're clearing high level M+, you're getting worse gear than someone who AFK's on warfront or does emissary quest. This is ridiculous state of the game indeed.

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And that's exactly why we are using Rio instead of ilvl. Because ilvl means nothing nowadays! While rio is still provides value separating wheat from chaff.

technically you are correct - but what is also true people like you are causing why we see such high itlv from trivial content like warfront/world bosses - because otherwise all normal people would be denied any way of progressing their toons.

i for example like this middle ground . when pre 8.1 most of my alts were in 355-360 bracket from doin casual content. and it wasnt untill tier was over when catch up gear started to appear being a nice bonus for people who were up to date with gear.

because be honest - freshly dinged toon is not getting 370 gear from invasions like you people claim - in order to get this good gear those toons had to be already geared in full normal partialy hc gear. (unless you play allience and are literaly given hc raid quality loot for free just when you enable WM )