14-year-old charged with murder in deadly crash

[I Push Buttons]

So am I getting this wrong or was the kid fleeing some one with a gun and was only charged with murder because he wasn’t allowed to drive?

Many states have a thing called felony murder, where if you commit a felony and anyone dies during the commission of that felony, you get charged with their murder. So if you steal a car and crash into someone, killing them, that's felony murder... If you and your friend rob a house and a police officer shoots your friend, felony murder. If you rob a bank and the bank teller has a heart attack, felony murder. Etc.

In this case, unauthorized driving is a felony in Texas, and this kid killed this innocent women during the commission of that felony, thus felony murder.

The "fleeing" someone is irrelevant. They egged that person's car, which is at the very least vandalism, possibly even destruction of property if the car was damaged. The man had every right to pursue those who vandalized his property. The felony the pursuing driver faces is for failure to stop and render aid; since he was tangentially involved in the accident, he had a duty to stop and render aid.

[Steve French]

I mean by all means charge them with the crimes they're committing. But I don't agree with charging people with murder when they didn't intend to kill someone, even if they are criminals.

I have no problem with it. Don't commit crimes, and don't put yourself in a stupid position where you could kill someone like speeding down the highway running red lights.

[mvaliz]

Its murder because he was committing a felony that lead to a death. A lot of states have that.

I believe Murder charges require the use of intention. I don't think these kids were intending on killing anybody - just being trolling jackasses. And before you say it, no, that's not "Premeditated Murder". The affixation of "Premeditation" basically means "Specifically planned out and thought of".

From everything I've read, it's not Murder - but rather every other charge underneath it, from Manslaughter to criminal negligence to even vandalism, should be charged.

[Nitros14]

I have no problem with it. Don't commit crimes, and don't put yourself in a stupid position where you could kill someone like speeding down the highway running red lights.

In that case why not make literally all crimes come with a murder charge? Don't commit crimes and you'll be fine.

I can't agree with that because I think the justice system should be just. Not just tacking on extra crimes they didn't commit because you don't like them.

[Orange Joe]

That's pretty shoddy logic, unless you can demonstrate that the accident would have occurred even if the guy had not been chasing him.

I mean, If he didn't throw the egg the guy wouldn't be chasing him would he. If you want to look at the action that caused the whole mess you start with the action of throwing the egg.

[Shadowferal]

Kid willingly engaged in acts that he knew was wrong, and as a result killed someone.
His life is fucked no matter what.

[muto]

They didn't give him a reason to. By your logic, someone throws toilet paper on your house, you get to pull a gun and shoot them. Escalations can be a crime. You don't pull a gun just because of an egging.

Didn’t know the guy shot him. Can you link me the article where you read he shot him?

[Altrec]

That's pretty shoddy logic, unless you can demonstrate that the accident would have occurred even if the guy had not been chasing him.

That's pretty shoddy logic, unless you can demonstrate that the chase would have occurred even if the kids never threw eggs at a moving car.

[Mistame]

I mean, If he didn't throw the egg the guy wouldn't be chasing him would he. If you want to look at the action that caused the whole mess you start with the action of throwing the egg.

That's certainly a fair point, but that doesn't excuse the guy chasing him, either. I mean, if you, as an adult, react to a kid egging your car by engaging in a high speed chase after him, you're just as much in the wrong as he is. Kids do stupid shit. Adults should know better.

That's pretty shoddy logic, unless you can demonstrate that the chase would have occurred even if the kids never threw eggs at a moving car.

You're trying too hard.

[I Push Buttons]

I believe Murder charges require the use of intention. I don't think these kids were intending on killing anybody - just being trolling jackasses. And before you say it, no, that's not "Premeditated Murder". The affixation of "Premeditation" basically means "Specifically planned out and thought of".

From everything I've read, it's not Murder - but rather every other charge underneath it, from Manslaughter to criminal negligence to even vandalism, should be charged.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_murder_rule

The rule of felony murder is a legal doctrine in some common law jurisdictions that broadens the crime of murder: when an offender kills (regardless of intent to kill) in the commission of a dangerous or enumerated crime (called a felony in some jurisdictions), the offender, and also the offender's accomplices or co-conspirators, may be found guilty of murder.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

You are getting this wrong. He is being charged with murder because he stole a car, illegally drove it, egged moving cars endangering peoples lives, and running from someone who may or may not have had a gun resulting in someone's death.

If he’s only getting the murder charge because he wasn’t allowed to drive it’s bull shit no matter what. Rather he is allowed to drive or not should have no baring on rather it’s murder or man slaughter.

[Orange Joe]

That's certainly a fair point, but that doesn't excuse the guy chasing him, either. I mean, if you, as an adult, react to a kid egging your car by engaging in a high speed chase after him, you're just as much in the wrong as he is. Kids do stupid shit. Adults should know better.

I agree he shares some blame but the majority lies with the kid.


Was it a high speed chase? or did the kid just run a light trying to get away? Article doesn't say anything about high speeds.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Many states have a thing called felony murder, where if you commit a felony and anyone dies during the commission of that felony, you get charged with their murder. So if you steal a car and crash into someone, killing them, that's felony murder... If you and your friend rob a house and a police officer shoots your friend, felony murder. If you rob a bank and the bank teller has a heart attack, felony murder. Etc.

In this case, unauthorized driving is a felony in Texas, and this kid killed this innocent women during the commission of that felony, thus felony murder.

The "fleeing" someone is irrelevant. They egged that person's car, which is at the very least vandalism, possibly even destruction of property if the car was damaged. The man had every right to pursue those who vandalized his property. The felony the pursuing driver faces is for failure to stop and render aid; since he was tangentially involved in the accident, he had a duty to stop and render aid.

Not all cases are equal and applying the law blindly like they are is nonesense. They should be charged with every thing including man slaughter but not murder just because they can’t drive.

[barrsftw]

They could have absolutely yes. However, they didn't. In this case, we can't ignore what happened. The guy caused them to fear for their life.

Yep. And then they ran a red light and killed someone. Fault is on the kid. They were committing crimes, then fled (by driving illegally) because they got caught and were scared, then killed someone. That said it shouldn't be murder.. it's manslaughter imo.

[Mistame]

I agree he shares some blame but the majority lies with the kid.


Was it a high speed chase? or did the kid just run a light trying to get away? Article doesn't say anything about high speeds.

I don't think it really said, "high speed" but it's kind of implied that if you're chasing someone, you're going too fast. I'm not saying the kid is innocent, I'm just saying that the guy getting off free while the kid gets charged with murder is a blatant miscarriage of justice. They should both be charged with involuntary manslaughter, with the kid being charged for the other stuff (vandalism, etc) as well.

Yep. And then they ran a red light and killed someone. Fault is on the murderer. They were committing crimes, then fled (by driving illegally) because they got caught and were scared, then killed someone.

This type of hyperbole is detrimental to rational discussion. Just because state law classifies a death during the commission of a felony a "murder" does not make the person who caused the death a "murderer". That's not how that works.

[Altrec]

Not all cases are equal and applying the law blindly like they are is nonesense. They should be charged with every thing including man slaughter but not murder just because they can’t drive.

It isn't just because they can't drive. It is because they committed multiple crimes like stealing a car, driving illegally, endangered peoples lives in more than one way, and killing someone after running a red light.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

It isn't just because they can't drive. It is because they committed multiple crimes like stealing a car, driving illegally, endangered peoples lives in more than one way, and killing someone after running a red light.

No matter how many crimes some one commits it shouldn’t upgrade there last crime. The justice system shouldn’t be like an rpg where you get enough crime xp that your crimes roll over to a higher level.

[Jonnusthegreat]

Why wouldn't murder be the charge? That's what happened. His actions that he planned led to the death. I would still be happy with manslaughter, but murder is better because he was the instigator of it. Hope the guy doing the chasing also gets reckless endangerment, nothing more.

[I Push Buttons]

I don't think it really said, "high speed" but it's kind of implied that if you're chasing someone, you're going too fast. I'm not saying the kid is innocent, I'm just saying that the guy getting off free while the kid gets charged with murder is a blatant miscarriage of justice. They should both be charged with involuntary manslaughter, with the kid being charged for the other stuff (vandalism, etc) as well.

The guy didn't hit the woman?

And there is no law that says civilians aren't allowed to pursue criminals? The kid fleeing from the guy is irrelevant.

[Altrec]

No matter how many crimes some one commits it shouldn’t upgrade there last crime. The justice system shouldn’t be like an rpg where you get enough crime xp that your crimes roll over to a higher level.

That is a fine opinion to have, but that is not how the law is written. In the end the kid belongs in prison and will likely be in prison for a long time regardless of his crimes being elevated to murder or not.