Ocasio-Cortez floats 70% marginal tax on the super wealthy to fund Green New Deal

[Theodarzna]

Look up cap and trade maybe pick up a history book sometime.

- - - Updated - - -



Your post was pretty clear in its assertion but nice try deflecting.



Muh evil liburals economists

I get expecting nuanced understanding or even basic context understanding is a lot for you and your crowd here on MMO-OC, so lets review:

Person A says "Hey, Capitalism will give us the solution through market magic!"

Me in response "Pffffft that is stupid, most economists are deluded by ideology"

You "DUR HUR YOU RIGHTIES LOVE THE FREE MARKET!!!!"

Me "I've never been a pro-free market"

So you both didn't understand the context and came in for an attack despite not knowing what is being discussed. If you are too dense to grasp that I generally use "Liberal" and "Libertarian" as interchangable synonyms as well as Neo-Liberalism which I consider seperate and distinct from say Socialism, Marxism, Progressivism (Kinda), and Democratic Socialism and Anarchism. I get why you dolts like to accuse me of being contrarian, it is because you lot get so butt flustered that I don't fit an easy stereotype for a prescripted prepared response. But instead of just engaging in a discussion, you go off the handle and act like a twat whilst bumbling around and not grasping anything that is being discussed. But hey, Felya gave you an internet High Five, so its all ya need right?

[Felya]

No, it's not. Fascists leave private property alone, which is why capitalists prefer it. Every time it came to power it's because capitalists pushed for it.

No, they removed private property, from the citizens they deemed unworthy. You cannot talk about putting your citizens on a train to be made into lamps and soap, while saying they support private property.

[Slybak]

No, it's not. Fascists leave private property alone, which is why capitalists prefer it. Every time it came to power it's because capitalists pushed for it.

Fascism combines the nationalist ideologies of class collaboration - that state-enforced and reconciled social divisions were beneficial to civilization - and corporatism - the division of the economic body (corpus) of the nation into distinct but interlocking state-managed sectors. They only leave private property alone to the extent that it reinforces these ideological positions. Capitalists prefer it to socialism because they assume that the political capital arising from economic capital will protect them from what they see as fascism's excesses, whereas socialism sets as its object goal the destruction of that political capital.

[Draco-Onis]

I get expecting nuanced understanding or even basic context understanding is a lot for you and your crowd here on MMO-OC, so lets review:

Person A says "Hey, Capitalism will give us the solution through market magic!"

Me in response "Pffffft that is stupid, most economists are deluded by ideology"

You "DUR HUR YOU RIGHTIES LOVE THE FREE MARKET!!!!"

Me "I've never been a pro-free market"

So you both didn't understand the context and came in for an attack despite not knowing what is being discussed. If you are too dense to grasp that I generally use "Liberal" and "Libertarian" as interchangable synonyms as well as Neo-Liberalism which I consider seperate and distinct from say Socialism, Marxism, Progressivism (Kinda), and Democratic Socialism and Anarchism. I get why you dolts like to accuse me of being contrarian, it is because you lot get so butt flustered that I don't fit an easy stereotype for a prescripted prepared response. But instead of just engaging in a discussion, you go off the handle and act like a twat whilst bumbling around and not grasping anything that is being discussed. But hey, Felya gave you an internet High Five, so its all ya need right?

It's rather sad you keep trying to distract from your original assertion rather than owing up to it when you got caught. If you wanted a more nuanced conversation you would not have phrased it in such a biased way. So rather than go around to more diversion why don't you tell us your preferred method of funding for environmental solutions?

[Theodarzna]

It's rather sad you keep trying to distract from your original assertion rather than owing up to it when you got caught. If you wanted a more nuanced conversation you would not have phrased it in such a biased way.

Get caught saying what? Those economists are most enamored with Neo-Liberalism? It isn't my fault you aren't aware of what I am talking about.

So far your bitch fit seems to be that I am not fitting your prepared remark.

[Draco-Onis]

Get caught saying what? Those economists are most enamored with Neo-Liberalism? It isn't my fault you aren't aware of what I am talking about.

So far your bitch fit seems to be that I am not fitting your prepared remark.

You missed my quick edit instead of going around in this argument which you divert throw fits and whatever else since you propose to have a nuance argument let's hear what your preferred environmental solution.

[Felya]

They supported private property.
They took the stuff that Jews, political opponents, etc, had and made it the private property of people who donated to the Party.

Think about what you just said. If they could deem citizens unworthy of owning property, for government to just take it, there are no property rights. It’s a facade that simply requires you to ask anyone of being a Jewish supporter, for them to no longer have property rights. That’s how facism and extremes of authoritarianism works. You create a scape goat, where you can strip them of all rights, to pretend that it doesn’t show government’s power over your property. It plays on the fact that people assume that they will never be undesirable, thus all of the laws inhibiting their freedom don’t apply to them.

Their government owned everything, the freedom was just a facade to justify the heredity of oligarchs.

Edit: Oohhh... Nationalism being just a facade to justify the heredity of oligarchs. I am going to be repeating that line!

[Triks]

Any economics books will cite carbon tax as the best way to address climate change.

Leftist ignorance ugh.

@Shimera beat me to it.

You and the rest of the Internet right-wing pied pipers have zero understanding of economics and political economy. If you turn on your television to France, you will understand why reverse taxation simply doesn't work.

[NED funded]

@Shimera beat me to it.

@shimerra made a bunch of assumptions that I really can't be bothered to answer because it doesn't really address anything I said because I've never claimed taxes are evil or that Trump's position of putting tariffs on solar panels is supposedly good. Its nothing but leftists strawmanning. But even then, and this is directed at you Shimerra:

Meanwhile a subsidy would have increased the sales of American panels by making them cheaper and stimulated the business of all the related businesses that sell/install/maintain them. All that lovely bit of rightardist policy did was make China's global position stronger and hurt domestic business.

This is hilariously false. Either the subsidy would've to be so stupidly high to justify difference in prices and quality (and at that point is a waste of money and very susceptible to corruption) or it simply wouldn't work. I recommend you check the cases of Brazil and Argentina for failed subsidy schemes.

You and the rest of the Internet right-wing pied pipers have zero understanding of economics and political economy.

I'm literally a phd student for developmental economics lmao.

But that is another topic as I don't like to call everyone I disagree with ignorant on X or show off my dick.

As for your answer:

If you turn on your television to France, you will understand why reverse taxation simply doesn't work.

If I turn my television to France I see that people are marching against things that Macron never did. Or that the argument of fiscal justice is pure bunk because France already has one of the more progressive taxation systems than countries like Canada that have successfully managed to implement a carbon tax. Fuck it, in the US progressive bastions are failing to implement it despite the proposals rebating tax payers.

If you ask me it doesn't really matter what you do with the money because the urgency of the issue is just that grave, and the masses in France are acting like moronic fucks for failing to see it and act on it. And so is everyone that opposes a carbon tax.

[Felya]

This is hilariously false. Either the subsidy would've to be so stupidly high to justify difference in prices and quality (and at that point is a waste of money and very susceptible to corruption) or it simply wouldn't work. I recommend you check the cases of Brazil and Argentina for failed subsidy schemes.

No, he is talking about solar cells specifically. China over produced solar cells, because the expected boon in solar panels soared, in part due to things like Paris Accord. But, US built solar cells that were more expensive, but more efficient. China’s government ended up subsidizing the hell out of their inferior solar cells. This ended up beating the US product, because the increased efficiency, were not worth the below cost sale of the inferior Chinese cells. It’s one of the reasons we saw solar companies rapidly going under about 4 years ago. China selling theirs below cost, changed the paradigm, pushing US product out of the market.

Now check where all the shit at Walmart is made. Who is at fault? Waltons or China?

[JohnBrown1917]

With 32 pages, I wonder how we got to the point where so many MMO-C'ers make over 10m a year.

[Edge-]

With 32 pages, I wonder how we got to the point where so many MMO-C'ers make over 10m a year.

I don't...yet. But I will be making that some day soon, and I need to protect myself for when I stop being a stupid poor and start being a smart rich!

(/s)

I'll see if I can dig it up, but there are actually a couple studies I remember reading about this topic. Working folks who held economic views that are directly contrary to their own interests and whatnot. Apparently most of them believe they'll "hit it big" and that their current situation is largely "bad luck", and a part of why they hold views that are not favorable to their current situation is because they want to protect themselves when they're "rich".

It's more complicated/nuanced than that obviously, but that was the gist of the conclusion of the studies. Explains a whole lot about why folks are so frequently working against their own economic interest.

[tyrlaan]

I don't...yet. But I will be making that some day soon, and I need to protect myself for when I stop being a stupid poor and start being a smart rich!

(/s)

I'll see if I can dig it up, but there are actually a couple studies I remember reading about this topic. Working folks who held economic views that are directly contrary to their own interests and whatnot. Apparently most of them believe they'll "hit it big" and that their current situation is largely "bad luck", and a part of why they hold views that are not favorable to their current situation is because they want to protect themselves when they're "rich".

It's more complicated/nuanced than that obviously, but that was the gist of the conclusion of the studies. Explains a whole lot about why folks are so frequently working against their own economic interest.

Yup exactly. But then that's the core lie of the American Dream, that "anyone" can be a millionaire. Its peddled all over the place, from advertising the lottery to writing books about how to become rich.

The lie has been so well delivered that people "know" they will become rich one day and therefore they don't want to get "screwed" out of their millions once they get them, and this false worry is so massive that they're willing to ignore what's happening to them right now.

[Edge-]

Yup exactly. But then that's the core lie of the American Dream, that "anyone" can be a millionaire. Its peddled all over the place, from advertising the lottery to writing books about how to become rich.

The lie has been so well delivered that people "know" they will become rich one day and therefore they don't want to get "screwed" out of their millions once they get them, and this false worry is so massive that they're willing to ignore what's happening to them right now.

"If you work hard and play by the rules, you'll be rich!"

Man, the fact that anyone still believes this is a reasonable/achievable goal pains me greatly.

[Flarelaine]

I'll see if I can dig it up, but there are actually a couple studies I remember reading about this topic. Working folks who held economic views that are directly contrary to their own interests and whatnot. Apparently most of them believe they'll "hit it big" and that their current situation is largely "bad luck", and a part of why they hold views that are not favorable to their current situation is because they want to protect themselves when they're "rich".

Someone once wrote that every American is a temporarily embarrassed millionaire.

[NED funded]

"If you work hard and play by the rules, you'll be rich!"

Man, the fact that anyone still believes this is a reasonable/achievable goal pains me greatly.

That is some loser mentality right there.

[bladeXcrasher]

That is some loser mentality right there.

That's every Republican and Libertarian in the country.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Tell that to the people who lose their jobs when minimum wages increase. Rich people put profit over everything else.

Look at literally every minimum wage increase in the US and every other country with a minimum wage. Then look at the unemployment rate at those same times. Notice anything? Yep, zero correlation. We don't have unemployment spikes when minimum wage rises. Watch something besides Fox News, friend.

[Draco-Onis]

That is some loser mentality right there.

There's no shortage of poor people working two full time jobs, playing by the rules and barely making it, it's just a useless slogan to keep the masses in check.

[Adam Jensen]

With 32 pages, I wonder how we got to the point where so many MMO-C'ers make over 10m a year.

You know, if I had 10,000,000 a year, I'd gladly give away 70% of any amount above 10,000,000.

The hell am I going to do with more than 10,000,000 dollars? The hell am I going to do with 5,000,000 dollars? This is a tax on excess, on luxury money people can do without. No one who's making 10,000,000 is suddenly going to struggle because taxes are at 70%.

- - - Updated - - -

"If you work hard and play by the rules, you'll be rich!"

Man, the fact that anyone still believes this is a reasonable/achievable goal pains me greatly.

Which ignores the basic fact that not everyone can be rich. Not everyone can have high paying jobs. Someone's gotta do the shitty, but necessary low pay/low skill jobs, and most people will fail at getting rich, either due to lack of opportunity or lack of skill, or both.

The "dream" should be simpler. "If you work hard and play by the rules, you can afford a basic middle class life."