Trump’s Immigration Address And Democratic Response: Live

[Breccia]

*yawn* oh shit, was that today? Hold on, lemme find the recap.

(checks news)

Offered no solution, took no actions, and blamed the Democrats. Sounds like I didn't miss much.

[Thestrawman]

*yawn* oh shit, was that today? Hold on, lemme find the recap.

(checks news)

Offered no solution, took no actions, and blamed the Democrats. Sounds like I didn't miss much.

Yeah I'm a little dissapointed. I was hoping for a little raving. Or at least some mouth frothing. Rather limp dick to be honest.

[Kaleredar]

Offered no solution, took no actions, and blamed the Democrats.

Trump's presidency in a nutshell.

Hell, the Republican's MO for the past 10 years in a nutshell.

[Breccia]

Well since I missed it, I read this recap on TheHill. Nothing you guys haven't already said, but with one minor @Skroe style addition.

When Trump first declared he was going to do this, the TV networks looked back and forth at each other, shrugging. After such spectacles as Trump "ending" the birther movement and advertising his hotel, they didn't jump. Nor should they have.

Then, Trump said he'd deliver it from the Oval Office (his first) implying it would be a big deal, then promised it would be eight minutes or less. The networks agreed to carry it.

Trump then offered no solutions, no new actions, and blamed the Democrats. Pelosi and Schumer kind of...um..."took ten" and did nothing fancy, either.

The networks won't bite next time. Trump already played his "but I really mean it!" card.

[Captain N]

Hulk Hogan's tribute to Mean Gene Okerlund on RAW last night was more eloquent and moving than this...

[Skroe]

ROFLMAO that was it?

What a joke.

The face of a defeated man who knows the end is near.

[Wyrt]

I do find it interesting how it seemed carefully worded, though. Is he trying to shift it to "border security" now so he can claim a win when that's all the budgeting he gets?

Possible. The democrats already offered more money for the border in exchange for DACA, they just didn't offer money for a wall. So yeah, Trump could be changing the wording so he can declare it a win when the democrats give him what they already offered.

[Breccia]

I do find it interesting how it seemed carefully worded, though. Is he trying to shift it to "border security" now so he can claim a win when that's all the budgeting he gets?

Yes. Kinda. He's claiming the Wall is mandatory for border security. If he doesn't get a physical barrier -- at least, one better than what we have now thanks Obama -- then it's a castrating loss. The shutdown will have been for nothing, since he was handed extra money for border security already. $1.3 or $1.6 billion or so. He cannot claim any non-barrier result is a win, and honestly, I'm not even sure his fanbase will back him if he does. I mean, we have @lockedout saying "he always wanted a fence lol" effectively moving the goalposts to Mexico. But if Trump leaves this situation, and has no new construction to show for it, then he has the mess of his own shutdown coupled with no gain. An objective net loss.

The speech was carefully worded, though. He didn't write it, and he didn't wing it. And he is shifting it to "border security". It's just not a back door he can escape from.

[Togashii]

I'm pretty center to left-center usually, but even I'm for the wall. Beyond the reasons the President made tonight, it's just hard to make a reasonable argument against. Some of the crime/terrorist claims are exaggerated, but the points about heroin/etc. are true. At least improved border security will slow them down a bit.

There's no financial argument against the $5B. The Afghan war alone costs $70B a year, and that has been every year since 2001. So the focus on the $5B is like buying a million dollar house and everyone arguing about the design on a $50 light fixture. Same for the dislike of the term "wall". There have been fences and steel walls at the border along large parts of it for many decades. All this is doing is strengthening the barriers and filling in the gaps. It's just tough to argue against it in that perspective.

Just another Quisling, just like Theo and Connal.

[Breccia]

The face of a defeated man who knows the end is near.

Yeah...at this point, I don't know if the stress of Mueller is wearing him out, but the defeat is purely on the issues. Maybe he'll change his mind later when, I dunno, Breitbart or someone...actually hold on.

(checks Breitbart)

Eh, that was a "meh" article. Anyhow, maybe someone will convince him to change his mind, declare a state of emergency, and then the fun really starts.

Oh by the way, Trump continues to lose support on this. Several Senators have --

"That's not what the link says. That story is about the DC water utility joking about shutting off the White House water supply until the shutdown is over."

My bad. Is this it?

"No, that's Axios fact-checking Trump's speech."

I know it's in here somewhere. Ah, here it is.

Sens. Lisa Murkowski (R-Ala.), Susan Collins (R-Maine), and Cory Gardner (R-Colo.) have called for the government to be reopened before more work is done on border security.

It's getting harder for lawmakers to ignore the real consequences of a shutdown. Democrats in the House have passed a spending bill that would fund a majority of the shuttered government agencies besides the Department of Homeland Security, but President Trump has promised a veto. The Senate can override a veto with 67 votes, but Majority Leader Mitch McConnell has said he won't bring any vote that doesn't have Trump's approval.

Murkowski: "We don't need to hold up these six other departments at the same time that we are resolving these very important security issues."
Collins: "I'm not saying their whole plan is a valid plan, but I see no reason why the bills that are ready to go and on which we've achieved an agreement should be held hostage to this debate over border security."
Gardner: "I think we should pass a continuing resolution to get the government back open. The Senate has done it last Congress, we should do it again today."

I get that McConnell has some special powers that can block legislation from hitting the floor, but, at some point using such a power will do more harm than good. At some point, moderates will have to choose between being in the Party of Trump, or being Part of the Solution.

[Breccia]

Which was what? Two years ago?

Being in the Party of Trump could be viewed as being Part of the Solution two years ago, if you were a Republican. Things actually held together for a while.

That is no longer the case. His views on Syria spun 360 but he didn't get Kelly back. The stock market fell. Trump was laughed out of the UN. The tax cut wasn't working. Nazis marched with torches on the streets of America. And, yes, the government is shut down and McConnell refuses to help. It's no longer possible to be both. Now you have to choose one or the other.

[Adam Jensen]

ROFLMAO that was it?

What a joke.

The face of a defeated man who knows the end is near.

I know right?

Here I was expecting this to be the Reichstag Fire moment (as pathetic as that would be) and he didn't even do that!

Though, tbf, I'm glad he didn't do that.

[Skroe]

So the Democratic response was good. It did what it needed to do.

But Pelosi and Schumer never need to address the nation again. They're consumate legislators. And they're old. They don't offer a good contrast to Trump.

Instead this message and future message should be delivered by Democrats in their 40s and 50s who can speak to the nation and offer a youthful contrast to Trump.

Pelosi and Schumer need to know their role and stay the master planners.

[Blur4stuff]

Yeah I was thinking the same thing about Schumer and Pelosi. I kept going through my mind about who they should have used instead.

Surely there's a sensible middle ground between S&P and AOC.

[LaserSharkDFB]

And he's keeping tens - hundreds? - of thousands of government workers from getting paid, withholding vital services from the American people, letting our national parks literally get shit upon... and he can't even put any enthusiasm into shoveling his usual pile of bullshit. People are going to die over this, and Trump absolutely owns it. Just like he said he would.

[Felya]

And he's keeping tens - hundreds? - of thousands of government workers from getting paid, withholding vital services from the American people, letting our national parks literally get shit upon... and he can't even put any enthusiasm into shoveling his usual pile of bullshit. People are going to die over this, and Trump absolutely owns it. Just like he said he would.

It would be funny if when ever Trump was walking up to give another speech on the wall (that he can no longer call a wall), this song played: (the quality is shit, the dude filed it off screen with his phone... so...)

[ohtlmtlm]

Yeah I was thinking the same thing about Schumer and Pelosi. I kept going through my mind about who they should have used instead.

Surely there's a sensible middle ground between S&P and AOC.

AOC's post Trumps blather interview on MSNBC was pretty good. I'm no where near saying she should be the one doing it now, but she can spit some game.

[Omega10]

Yeah I was thinking the same thing about Schumer and Pelosi. I kept going through my mind about who they should have used instead.

Surely there's a sensible middle ground between S&P and AOC.

There are multiple reasons for democrats to be giving speeches. S&P have spoken, AOC has spoken, let other democrats also speak as well. There is no need to have so few people "speaking for the democratic party".

I think a big reason for most people to not give these kinds of speeches is: who wants to be the new target of Fox news and the rest of the right wing echo chamber? Death threats are no joke - ask the women who stood up to Kavanaugh.

[Healing Rain]

As President Trump said, walls are common sense. Every human structure has walls. Nations are human structures, so walls protecting them is common sense.

[PosPosPos]

As President Trump said, walls are common sense. Every human structure has walls. Nations are human structures, so walls protecting them is common sense.

Oh look, low quality drive-by shitposting from Healing Rain as usual.