Trinket Design

[Kaver]

No, it's not. For outlaw rogue it's better than most 370 versions, for example. For some specs may be.

https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#rogue_outlaw

1) The 385 version is better than the 370 version of under half the other trinkets. And that is if you look at Single Target damage. A 385 trinket should be better than a 370 trinket in general.

2) It's even worse for AOE damage.

3) Trinkets which are bad for AOE should by design be great for Single target, right?

[Daggermoon]

I've got My'das in my weekly M+ cache as a 380 ilvl. I haven't equipped it once, hell I tried so hard to refrain myself from scrapping it, but it's 10ilvls higher than my other trinkets and it boosts my general ilvl (not equipped). Horrible design.

[vsb]

https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#rogue_outlaw

1) The 385 version is better than the 370 version of under half the other trinkets.

There's a lot of visual garbage in that page. Most of those top trinkets are from world quests or world bosses and you won't get them even 370, so there's no point to compare to them.

And that is if you look at Single Target damage. A 385 trinket should be better than a 370 trinket in general.

Not necessarily. While some balance is expected, trinkets are more than stat sticks and their interaction with rotation makes them outliers in gear slots.

[Eazy]

https://bloodmallet.com/index.html#rogue_outlaw

1) The 385 version is better than the 370 version of under half the other trinkets. And that is if you look at Single Target damage. A 385 trinket should be better than a 370 trinket in general.

2) It's even worse for AOE damage.

3) Trinkets which are bad for AOE should by design be great for Single target, right?

Isn't that website wrong? I think I heard they're not calculating the affixes correctly, such as SS trait in Hectic-Add cleave.

[Kaver]

There's a lot of visual garbage in that page. Most of those top trinkets are from world quests or world bosses and you won't get them even 370, so there's no point to compare to them.


Not necessarily. While some balance is expected, trinkets are more than stat sticks and their interaction with rotation makes them outliers in gear slots.

That's not true. Most of the trinkets are dungeon/raid trinkets..

But if a trinket is really bad at AOE fights then it should by design be pretty good on a single target fight, right? Otherwise, what is the point of that trinket? The problem with the My'das is that it surpose to be a ST trinket, but it is worse than trinkets which also improve your AOE.

- - - Updated - - -

Isn't that website wrong? I think I heard they're not calculating the affixes correctly, such as SS trait in Hectic-Add cleave.

I think it's only SS really. There are some problems with simulating that trait correctly.

[rohoz]

Doom's wake and azerokk's resonating heart sim vastly different when they are essentially the same trinket (mastery passive, agi use/proc)

Trinket balance isn't as easy as you think it is/want it to be, you can see that my'das talisman fluctuates between 800-1k damage per use, which isn't really that bad (@400 il)

It's really only 10-15% worse than the best trinket, it's very likely usable if it's 15-25 il above other trinkets save fathoms.

[Harbour]

I just remember Sea Star Mother trinket on my Holy Pally. That were the glorious happy days *crying*

[Kaver]

Doom's wake and azerokk's resonating heart sim vastly different when they are essentially the same trinket (mastery passive, agi use/proc)

Trinket balance isn't as easy as you think it is/want it to be, you can see that my'das talisman fluctuates between 800-1k damage per use, which isn't really that bad (@400 il)

It's really only 10-15% worse than the best trinket, it's very likely usable if it's 15-25 il above other trinkets save fathoms.

I just think that a trinket like My'das which adds no value in AOE fights should be one of the best Single target trinket to compensate.

For example: Harlan's Loaded Dice is much better than My'das on AOE but it is also better on Single Target. This makes no sense to me.

[netherflame]

Most of these upscaled trinkets as u call them are way way WAY better than uldir trinkets even with few ilvls below and if u cant see a problem here dont know what yo say about it , also another trinket its darkmoon fathoms , crafted trinket bis for alot of classes regardless of what mythic drops they get

Uldir trinkets are god awful, the only reason that casters use bloodshaper is because by this point everyone has enough kills that they have a max level one.

[Rixxis]

I just think that a trinket like My'das which adds no value in AOE fights should be one of the best Single target trinket to compensate.

For example: Harlan's Loaded Dice is much better than My'das on AOE but it is also better on Single Target. This makes no sense to me.

It would be great if every single piece of loot had its niche use but they don't. Trinkets are notoriously hard to balance. I don't understand how this is post worthy that there's a trinket in the game you don't want to AoE or ST because there are better alternatives. Like this has been in the game since day 1. Just sounds like someone is upset their weekly cache had a shit drop in it. Welcome to RNG loot.

[markos82]

M+ is NOT end game..
It's upscaled levelling content.

- - - Updated - - -


But it's not end game, just because you call it so.

But it kinda is End Game considering there is no lvl of how high m+ can go but there is limited amount of raids and mythic difficulty is the highest we can do it atm, there is no m+7 Uldir raid and so on.....

[zetitup]

M+ is NOT end game..
It's upscaled levelling content.

- - - Updated - - -


But it's not end game, just because you call it so.

It's not end game content but drops the same ilvl as end game content?
And everyone know that M+ is not remotley equal the challange compared to leveling content.
The people doing +20 or higher are about the same amount who have cleared Uldir on Mythic.

Just cause you don't care for M+ or w/e reason you are not comparing it to end-content, does not mean it actually is end-game content.
It gives people who don't like raiding or PvP a challange to do.

[lummiuster]

It is great man. So far I'm il 370 and my highest trinket il are 340 and 330. I like it because then I smile when I get it (if I do). If not then it is fine, not everyone should have the best.

[Swalload]

End game? It drops from level 112 in a 5man.. Since when was that end game?

Since it can be obtained from the hardest content of the game.

[Kaver]

It would be great if every single piece of loot had its niche use but they don't. Trinkets are notoriously hard to balance. I don't understand how this is post worthy that there's a trinket in the game you don't want to AoE or ST because there are better alternatives. Like this has been in the game since day 1. Just sounds like someone is upset their weekly cache had a shit drop in it. Welcome to RNG loot.

"Like this has been in the game since day 1" IS IT NOT TIME TO FIX IT THEN!!!!!

The game should IMPROVE. So if we have a problem which has existed always, then it's time to fix it.

I'm not talking about balancing. I'm talking about Trinkets which are obviously completely broken and will never be used by anyone. If there is a trinket in the game which is not being used by anyone, then something is wrong with that trinket, and I have to question why it was made?

Some of the trinkets Blizzard put in the game seems completely random..

[arkanon]

You are right. Everything should be the best at everything for everyone! Your logic hurts. Every piece of loot i get should be BiS damn it, or this game sux!!!! "Bad" items have always been in the game, and always will be, as they should be. The problem with wow is they are catering more and more towards players with this attitude that everything should be good and viable in every aspect of the game for every class, every spec, and every talent choice.

This sort of garbage is how we ended up with generic, boring classes.

- - - Updated - - -

"Like this has been in the game since day 1" IS IT NOT TIME TO FIX IT THEN!!!!!

The game should IMPROVE. So if we have a problem which has existed always, then it's time to fix it.

I'm not talking about balancing. I'm talking about Trinkets which are obviously completely broken and will never be used by anyone. If there is a trinket in the game which is not being used by anyone, then something is wrong with that trinket, and I have to question why it was made?

Some of the trinkets Blizzard put in the game seems completely random..

Streamlining the game to the point its just a slot machine. That is boring. You are using complete hyperbole as well, because people WILL use this trinket. Someone leveling, someone who has just dinged and gets a titanforge one (the agi alone would make it worth it over some 270). Everything doesnt have to be perfect. Stop trying to turn the game into a slot machine.

[Kaver]

You are right. Everything should be the best at everything for everyone! Your logic hurts. Every piece of loot i get should be BiS damn it, or this game sux!!!! "Bad" items have always been in the game, and always will be, as they should be. The problem with wow is they are catering more and more towards players with this attitude that everything should be good and viable in every aspect of the game for every class, every spec, and every talent choice.

This sort of garbage is how we ended up with generic, boring classes.

- - - Updated - - -



Streamlining the game to the point its just a slot machine. That is boring. You are using complete hyperbole as well, because people WILL use this trinket. Someone leveling, someone who has just dinged and gets a titanforge one (the agi alone would make it worth it over some 270). Everything doesnt have to be perfect. Stop trying to turn the game into a slot machine.

If the only people who will use the trinket is someone who has just dinged 120, then something is wrong with the design.

You’re not getting the point my dude. A 385 trinket should not be worse than a 350 trinket for both ST and AoE. That is bad design.

Some trinkets are completely undertuned to the point where they will be worse than other Trinkets in ALL situations. This is wrong.

The design for trinkets should in general be based on 3 difference setups:

- Good for ST and bad for AoE
- Bad for ST and good for AoE
- Mediocre for both ST and AoE

This would give players a lot of choice to customise their setup based on dungeons, raids etc.

But when you have a trinket which is bad for both AoE and ST then there is something wrong with that trinket. I’m not saying that all trinkets should be the same. I’m saying that all trinkets should shine in some part of the game. And currently we have some which are bad in all situations.

My suggestion would actually turn the game less into a slot machine because it would reduce the chance of getting unusable gear.

[arkanon]

If the only people who will use the trinket is someone who has just dinged 120, then something is wrong with the design.

You’re not getting the point my dude. A 385 trinket should not be worse than a 350 trinket for both ST and AoE. That is bad design.

Some trinkets are completely undertuned to the point where they will be worse than other Trinkets in ALL situations. This is wrong.

The design for trinkets should in general be based on 3 difference setups:

- Good for ST and bad for AoE
- Bad for ST and good for AoE
- Mediocre for both ST and AoE

This would give players a lot of choice to customise their setup based on dungeons, raids etc.

But when you have a trinket which is bad for both AoE and ST then there is something wrong with that trinket. I’m not saying that all trinkets should be the same. I’m saying that all trinkets should shine in some part of the game. And currently we have some which are bad in all situations.

My suggestion would actually turn the game less into a slot machine because it would reduce the chance of getting unusable gear.

Yeah, i dont think you know how a slot machine works. You either win, or you dont.

I cannot disagree with you any more - you want all loot to be the best at something, and that would be a horrible path to go down. Honestly, i am more against your suggestion than anything on this forum for a while - it shows how out of touch you are.

Every class doesnt need to be the best at everything, and every spec doesnt need to be the best at everything, and every item doesnt need to be the best at anything either. I honestly just cant get my head around how someone would think this is a good idea - the only reason certain items look good is because they are good COMPARED TO OTHER ITEMS - you are suggesting that each spec only has a couple of trinkets, and you clearly want any variety removed from the game.

People play this game for a variety of reasons, and you will be better off once you accept that the min/max crowd is a tiny, TINY percentage of the player base - less than RP players.

ps - the irony of your post is not lost on me - adding a trinket that by your own definition is only mediocre? Who is that item aimed at?

[Kaver]

Yeah, i dont think you know how a slot machine works. You either win, or you dont.

I cannot disagree with you any more - you want all loot to be the best at something, and that would be a horrible path to go down. Honestly, i am more against your suggestion than anything on this forum for a while - it shows how out of touch you are.

Every class doesnt need to be the best at everything, and every spec doesnt need to be the best at everything, and every item doesnt need to be the best at anything either. I honestly just cant get my head around how someone would think this is a good idea - the only reason certain items look good is because they are good COMPARED TO OTHER ITEMS - you are suggesting that each spec only has a couple of trinkets, and you clearly want any variety removed from the game.

People play this game for a variety of reasons, and you will be better off once you accept that the min/max crowd is a tiny, TINY percentage of the player base - less than RP players.

ps - the irony of your post is not lost on me - adding a trinket that by your own definition is only mediocre? Who is that item aimed at?

You still don't get the point my dude.

I want more variety and I want more choice. I want some trinkets to be good for Single target and I want some trinkets to be good at AOE. And some medium for both. But no trinket should be good or bad for both Single target and AOE. That's bad design.

Example:

Harlan's Loaded Dice is a really good trinket. It's does amazing in AOE situations and is also really good on Single Target. It's is much much better than My'das in all situations. What I'm suggesting is to make (for example) Harlan's Loaded Dice better on AOE but My'das better on Single Target. So on Fortified weeks you might choose trinket like Harlan's Loaded Dice and on Tyrannical weeks you might choose My'das.

Those to trinkets are just examples of a generel concept.

If you keep trinkets like My'das to be bad at every aspect of the game, then the trinket will never be chosen over trinkets like Harlan's Loaded Dice and therefore My'das will in the end be pointless.

If all trinkets in the game at good at something, then all trinkets can be chosen for certain content and we will end up with more options in the end. By having trinkets which are bad at everything you actually reduce the viable choices you have. I'm not sure if you get that?

I'm not saying to streamlines trinket, I'm just saying to make all trinket good at something.

And notice that I'm not saying any trinkets should be "the best". I'm just saying that if a trinket is in the game then it should have some kind of purpose.

One trinket should not be the best at both single target and AOE. Because that's how you get "cookie cutter" setups.

Just like one talent should not be the best at both Single target and AOE. This is a design concept Blizzard are already following so why not also do it with trinkets. It make sense and gives the players more options.

PS. What you're describing is the slot machine. Because what you want is to have very good trinkets and very bad trinkets. So you either win or lose with your suggestion. I don't agree with that

PPS. The "mediocre trinket" would be mediocre at both ST and AOE (My'das is BAD at both ST and AOE). Let me describe it with numbers:

1 = Bad
2 = Mediocre
3 = Good

Trinket 1: 1 ST + 3 AOE
Trinket 2: 3 ST + 1 AOE
Trinket 3: 2 ST + 2 AOE

You get it. So "mediocre" trinket would be "Jack of all traits but king of none".


You just made me break my number 1 rule.. "Never argue with stupid people"

[rohoz]

You still don't get the point my dude.

I want more variety and I want more choice. I want some trinkets to be good for Single target and I want some trinkets to be good at AOE.

Example:

Harlan's Loaded Dice is a really good trinket. It's does amazing in AOE situations and is also really good on Single Target. It's is much much better than My'das in all situations. What I'm suggesting is to make (for example) Harlan's Loaded Dice better on AOE but My'das better on Single Target. So on Fortified weeks you might choose trinket like Harlan's Loaded Dice and on Tyrannical weeks you might choose My'das.

Those to trinkets are just examples of a generel concept.

If you keep trinkets like My'das to be bad at every aspect of the game, then the trinket will never be chosen over trinkets like Harlan's Loaded Dice and therefore My'das will in the end be pointless.

If all trinkets in the game at good at something, then all trinkets can be chosen for certain content and we will end up with more options in the end. By having trinkets which are bad at everything you actually reduce the viable choices you have. I'm not sure if you get that?

I'm not saying to streamlines trinket, I'm just saying to make all trinket good at something.

And notice that I'm not saying any trinkets should be "the best". I'm just saying that if a trinket is in the game then it should have some kind of purpose.

One trinket should not be the best at both single target and AOE. Because that's how you get "cookie cutter" setups.

Just like one talent should not be the best at both Single target and AOE. This is a design concept Blizzard are already following so why not also do it with trinkets. It make sense and gives the players more options.

PS. What you're describing is the slot machine. Because what you want is to have very good trinkets and very bad trinkets. So you either win or lose with your suggestion. I don't agree with that

The difference between the worst dps trinket and the best dps trinket are very low, like a harlans vs mydas won't make a bad player a good player.
300 dps tops.

And harlans is mediocre at best. it's "cool" though.