5 weeks into warmode and buff is still 30% favored to Alliance

[Trend]

Yeah, and?

That's the point I was making?

That even with a 30% plus a free 370 ilvl weekly that we're still in this position where Alliance are outnumbered and incentivized.

I mean, what are we missing here? Are we missing the part as to WHY people still don't want to play Alliance after all these extra incentives were added? I figured that people would be able to get to that part by themselves, but here we are I guess.

But since I need to spell it out more clearly for some of you: The Alliance are a broken mess of a faction, community-wise, and this is just more evidence of that.

What specifically do you mean by saying that alliance is a "broken mess of a faction, community-wise"? What are you talking about? I've played Horde since closed beta but recently have played alliance alts with real life friends and I have not seen this difference you allude to. I think you're just saying shit that doesn't really have any meaning but I would be interested if you have some actual point.

Now for mythic raiding, because of the numbers, I get why horde is a better place to be. Outside that group, I just don't think people realize and they're used to playing horde so they just don't think about it. And without free faction changes from horde -> alliance I don't see enough people willing to pay or re-roll to take advantage of being alliance now.

[Rilec]

But you're comparing 30% plus a 370ilv vs a 10% Buff.

This is the equivalent to the wealthy complaining they aren't getting food stamps.

If you want a 30% buff and a kill quest, the Alliance is waiting for you.

[Nathasil]

If you remove the rewards, only those who actually want world pvp will turn it on.

Pet battles have no pve rewards so only those who have fun with it do pet battles, why should world pvp any different? It's fine with me when it turns out that only a few actually like wpvp, no need to bribe a lot of others just to see bigger participation.

If Pet Battles could only be done against members of the other faction and 70-80% of all players interested in Pet Batles were Alliance, you would have the exact same problem.

Factions are the problem, not the rewards. The rewards just make it more visible how flawed a faction-based PvP system is.

[blehmeh]

What specifically do you mean by saying that alliance is a "broken mess of a faction, community-wise"? What are you talking about? I've played Horde since closed beta but recently have played alliance alts with real life friends and I have not seen this difference you allude to. I think you're just saying shit that doesn't really have any meaning but I would be interested if you have some actual point.

Now for mythic raiding, because of the numbers, I get why horde is a better place to be. Outside that group, I just don't think people realize and they're used to playing horde so they just don't think about it. And without free faction changes from horde -> alliance I don't see enough people willing to pay or re-roll to take advantage of being alliance now.

What specifically do you not understand about my point?

Why would Alliance still be incentivized with all this extra stuff and still be underpopulated? That even with this extra stuff people don't want to even get near being Alliance.

Your personal experience of you playing alts on Alliance doesn't mean jack, honestly. The data is genuinely there. There is both a general population inbalance, and ON TOP of that you already have less % of people on Alliance actively engaged in War Mode. This isn't me just "saying shit that doesn't really have any meaning" when the data is fucking there.

And then you admit that Horde are in the better place for Mythic raiding, yet here you are pretending like I'm just pulling shit out of my ass for no genuine reason.

Ok.

[xGLxAnubis]

horde outnumbered alliance 1.2 to 1, so every 5 hordies there were 4 alliance, if you added them all up.

1.2 to 1 is actually a 6:5 ratio not 5:4.

[exochaft]

You mean Tenacity where the outnumbered faction gained like up to 300% extra health / damage?
Outnumbered faction still lost because the enemy simply threw itself at them with superior numbers.

System wasn't fun, outnumbered ones still lost and the other faction felt like shit because you got oneshotted.

Haha, I remember that fiasco. In the hands of skilled players or a coordinated group, you stood a better chance with that scaling buff, but PvP is more than just health/damage, and goal-oriented PvP content is a helluva lot more than health/damage. Pure numbers will always stand a better chance unless the outnumbered side can literally become unkillable gods, but then you run into the pendulum swing to the other extreme. Was Wintergrasp more balanced with the buff? Technically yes, but it was still heavily unbalanced overall.

At this point, about the only way Blizz could potentially fix faction imbalance is allowing players to switch sides under a temporary basis, similar to how the upcoming raid tech acts (where Alliance/Horde literally switch factions in the raid). Would Blizz let go of the cash cow that is faction change costs, which are higher than even server change costs? That remains to be seen.

There are other avenues that Blizz could take to adjust faction balance, but it would all revolve around both factions being able to play with each other freely regardless of which faction you are. I'm hoping that the faction-changing tech in the new raid is a step towards such solutions. Is it perfect? Nope, and things in-game would have to change to allow such tech to be feasible in the mainstream game. However, the only way you're going to get rid of faction imbalance at this point is to remove factions from the equation altogether.

[Liarparadox]

Kinda feels like some in this thread: 'I want what they have'.

I don't like warmode personally as an addition to BFA, and the sharding can be bonkers. So perhaps you've ran into Ally camping ur ass over and over and it gets annoying; but I can assure you Ally have been experiencing that since day one. Ideally, this situation would actually have you saying to yourself, "oh, so THATS what it's been like to be ally this whole xpac, getting shitkicked day after day". But not a lot of sympathy I'm detecting, just "now it's happening to me some times so I don't like it and I want my 30% I'm entitled to".

Honestly, I still see more Horde than ally around even with the 30% incentive. And even at 30%, I'm not even sure it's worth it for someone unless they really like wpvp. You can blast through quests pretty damn fast with wm off, just tag endless mobs and not having to worry about being gang banged by horde/ally who are just waiting for you to be in a fight so they can scumbag a kill. Likewise, having to sit there while streams of Horde (or ally) tag some mob over and over again....not worth the time for people who don't have all day.

[Trend]

What specifically do you not understand about my point?

Why would Alliance still be incentivized with all this extra stuff and still be underpopulated? That even with this extra stuff people don't want to even get near being Alliance.

Your personal experience of you playing alts on Alliance doesn't mean jack, honestly. The data is genuinely there. There is both a general population inbalance, and ON TOP of that you already have less % of people on Alliance actively engaged in War Mode. This isn't me just "saying shit that doesn't really have any meaning" when the data is fucking there.

And then you admit that Horde are in the better place for Mythic raiding, yet here you are pretending like I'm just pulling shit out of my ass for no genuine reason.

Ok.

You said that alliance is a "broken mess of a faction". By that you meant that alliance lacks the critical mass for mythic raiding that horde has? Seems like a super odd (i.e., dumb) way to chose words to express that thought. Of course that isn't what you meant and when I asked you to explain what you did mean you threw a little fit because you were just talking nonsense. I thought maybe you had some interesting point but I was guessing you were just a shit talker. I was right about the latter.

I already explained my thoughts on why people aren't going alliance.

My personal experience playing alliance has everything to do with why I think you're full of nonsense. It also has a bearing on why I think people aren't switching factions.

I'm not pretending anything. You won't even say what the fuck you're talking about with your random quips. Of course you're pulling things out of your ass.

Have a nice day.

[Accendor]

All that needs to be said.

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PvP is the incentive. After all its not like most people who claim to love world PvP simply want to gank lowbies anything.

You can say that all you want, but it is not working. People are not interested in it.
Don't get me wrong, I totally understand what you mean. Why should there be a reward for PVP when PVP IS the reward, right? The reward is the fun you have when you PVP.
But here is the problem: You don't PVP. The alliance turns of WM and all horde players are alone. No PVP for anybody.

[Vordie]

well its gonna be interesting to see what happens on wednesday .

since if blizard wont up this item to 400 itlv nobody on allience will do this quest anymore and if they do - well imagine the shitshow thats gonna start on forums because of 1 fraction favourism

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but we dont want to play this shitty fraction even if blizzard will buff them 100% :0

horde masterrace forever

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there is a signigficant difference - horde are just doin their quests - you are only there to kill people who have no interest in pvp - and as soon as you are done with 25 kills you turn it off again - because be honest - you dont care about pvp either - just about free 370 gear.

shit failed system shoudl be removed not encouraged.

I just spent ~15 minutes running away from people camping my and two other people's bodies. I'm sure they were "doing their quests".

[Soon-TM]

Works like a charm, obviously.

Or lets say, it doesnt.

Warmode is the worst designed new component of BfA. PVP in general was never as bad as it is nowadays, considering the fact that matchmade pvp gives not even real characterprogression anymore. I want back the honor vendors, where you may buy gear for a currency.

The devs catered the entire rewarding scheme on rated PVP, which shows both the bias for premade groups, and the complete ignorance of gameplay outside of it.

Indeed. So much for "catering to the casuals"... What have casual players been given in BfA? Yes, that's right, mind numbing warfronts and even more mind numbing IEs. The worst part is that Legion have casuals a good amount of content to chew, but now...

[Mardux]

I just spent ~15 minutes running away from people camping my and two other people's bodies. I'm sure they were "doing their quests".

They were "doing their quests" exactly as much as the alliance groups with wm on are "doing their quests". Thats why you never see a half dozen alliance bounties in the same general area while on your horde toon.

[Nathreim]

Just flip it every week. One week for Alliance next for the Horde repeat into infinity.

[Pooti]

So here is the important question. How many horde have TURNED OFF warmode? If enough horde turned it off to make the numbers skewed in the other direction, then the system would adapt. Blizz has the actual data, so anecdotal "there are so many alliance" is not useful information. Maybe, there seems to be so many alliance now because horde players became used to there being far less. If you want to see change it will probably take more than just whining on a gamer forum. If enough horde turn off warmode then I would wager they would get the incentive. Just like if tanks qued for random dungeons en-mass and dps stopped, there would be dps caches for random dungeon queing.

[gankhill]

I don't think there's really a way to use the buff to 'fix' war mode. The problem with war mode is that world pvp sucks, frankly; doing world quests in BFA is just a matter of being able to do them or being annoyed by the Alliance raid nearby

[Clone]

You seem unable to grasp this concept of the causal player.

All things equal, 100 horde, 100 alliance on a server. Alliance has say 40 players that are never going to have WM on, or ever que into a bg. It doesn't matter if you give them 100% extra rewards. They don't do dungeons, don't do LFR. They go around completing quests while changing baby diapers flying to the next flight path, play for an hour and log off to feed said baby. That lowers the pool to 60 vs 100 horde. Alliance get stomped for a while. 15 Alliance say screw it, I wanna win. Transfer to Horde. Now the pool is 45 Alliance vs 115 horde. Now Alliance are getting dominated, another 5 players decide to switch. Now it's 40 Alliance vs 120 Horde.

This is where the numbers currently are, when you look at completed M+ timers. The numbers are even more skewed when you look at arena and raiding. What does this tell you? More players that strive to get better and are more serious about the game are on the horde side. So in any kind of warmode scenerio, horde has the stacked team with not only the numbers, but better players participating.

Your answer is more Alliance should turn it on. Problem with that is, we all have it on already. Any Alliance worth mentioning has it on. It's not enough. There's simply not enough Alliance that take the game serious enough to tip the scale. Sure you'll get shards with a proper balance or even a slight favor to the alliance, but a majority of sharded instances will still have a horde majority. There's nothing we as players can do to tip the scales to get the ideal balance. Blizzard is trying to get more Alliance to turn it on, even if it means bribing them but these casuals won't turn it on because for them, it's 0 fun getting beat up in a 1v1.

I don't have a solution, I really don't. But at least rewarding the 40 Alliance a participation trophy helps the morale. I enjoy WM personally (when it's not lagging), it'd work if this was in BC or the beginning of Wrath before the talent pool got heavily tilted to 1 side.

All you are telling me is that Alliance players chose not to turn on war mode, casual or not. Judging by Alliance participation now, they never had a problem with war mode, they just don't want to be on the receiving end of losing wpvp.

Also, it's cute that your scenario doesn't take into account casual players on Horde side.

[adcesamo]

Just an Update on the reward of the quest "Against overwhelming odds"

[GreenJesus]

Just an Update on the reward of the quest "Against overwhelming odds"

Wtf?? The alliance get a free ilv 400 piece every week? Lol come on blizzard.

[Amaterasu65]

Buff still 30% for Alliance? Man, that's sad, but also expected. The faction imbalance won't be fixed that easily.

[Clone]

What a fucking farce.