So, item levels are getting spiked for no reason. Again.

[glowpipe]

That's odd, considering as the game became more and more casual, the subscriber count went lower and lower. Maybe that's just a coincidence, but we can't just pretend like the game becoming more casual didn't ruin many aspects of the MMO itself.

"Casuals keep the game afloat, so catering to them instead of creating a good game is irrelevant!" Someone might say. It's almost like if you call yourself a casual and then proceed to care about ilvl, you're not actual a casual, you just want to reap the rewards.

Well. they should add content for both groups. Not just the biggest group of players. But with the current blizzard, whos goal is now to produce more by spending less, i think its time to find a new game entirely. Wow have no future.

[Elias01]

Yeah, fuck giving reason to progress your character.

It actualy removes reason to progress your character. Becouse whats the point. World scales with you. Ïn next 6 months everything you do now i will be able to skip, faceroll and ´game will reset again.

[Sting]

You're missing the point completely actually. While the maximum cap is being raised 30 ilvl, the base cap to wq emissary is only being increased 15 ilvl. This means a bigger gap between casual and hardcore players. I'd say that's a good thing, since now you're drawing people who want to increase player power back into m+ and raids.

[Elias01]

Well. they should add content for both groups. Not just the biggest group of players. But with the current blizzard, whos goal is now to produce more by spending less, i think its time to find a new game entirely. Wow have no future.

Yes but they should never overlap. Yes i am talking about difficulty levels. Ofc have casual content but dont make normal = casual and mythic = hardcore.

Why rather not like it was in past. Karazhan was entry raid where casuals had content to do while hardcore ones piushed content in T6 raids. Thats how you make content for everyone no by spliting it into difficulty levels.

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You're missing the point completely actually. While the maximum cap is being raised 30 ilvl, the base cap to wq emissary is only being increased 15 ilvl. This means a bigger gap between casual and hardcore players. I'd say that's a good thing, since now you're drawing people who want to increase player power back into m+ and raids.

And warfronts? Icurrsion? Weekly events? World boss? Those goes uptu heroic level and not even talking about titanforging.

[glowpipe]

No game would have propably more active players what would steady fade out into abyss instead of current spikes at start of expansion and when people figure out wow is still garbage they insta quit. I think you dont get that making game accessible and casuals is what actualy droves casuals away. Becouse you cant make casual content interesting in long run. When casual content is comsumed people quit. Exclusive content is what keep players playing.

Im not saying they should only cater to casuals. They need to make content for all players. But saying the game should be 100% for the hardest of hardcore players would kill the game faster then making it casual friendly. Many people think that you should spend months ingame to get 1 epic item. Which is bullshit

[Elias01]

That's odd, considering as the game became more and more casual, the subscriber count went lower and lower. Maybe that's just a coincidence, but we can't just pretend like the game becoming more casual didn't ruin many aspects of the MMO itself.

"Casuals keep the game afloat, so catering to them instead of creating a good game is irrelevant!" Someone might say. It's almost like if you call yourself a casual and then proceed to care about ilvl, you're not actual a casual, you just want to reap the rewards.

Pretty much. If you are casual now you mostly just finish entire casual content in like 1 week. Chjeck out LFR and than quit game. In past you would consume content whicj took you few months than there was still more harder and exclusive content for you like raids. That feeling if unknow and exclusivity is what drives desir to see content and kept you playing. Even when you touched just few bosses and never went into raid anyway it kept you playing.

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Im not saying they should only cater to casuals. They need to make content for all players. But saying the game should be 100% for the hardest of hardcore players would kill the game faster then making it casual friendly. Many people think that you should spend months ingame to get 1 epic item. Which is bullshit

No it isnt becouse that exclusiviy is what made game and obtaining items interesting and fullfiling. Which are strong feelings to retain player. There is lot of psychologi in it. Just throwing at players content and gear wont do anything. ¨People will simply take path of least ressistance and quit.

[artam]

There´s way to much gear in game right now. To much sources to get it, to much dificulties, to much warforging to much titanforging, to much everything.

The gear/reward system has imploded.

[Soluna]

Wow. Just... Wow. Here's the text from the post, for those who haven't read it.

- New Maximum Item Level: With great challenges come great rewards and the maximum possible item level will go up to 425.
- Battle for Darkshore Warfront: Battle for Darkshore rewards will also increase to 400 from both the outdoor boss and from Warfront quest that can be completed once per cycle. The difficulty of the Warfront will increase however, and the item level required to queue will increase to 335. These changes will go into effect after the current Warfront cycle has ended. Until that time, players will still receive Season 1 rewards.
- World Quest Emissary Rewards: World Quest Emissary weapon and armor rewards will also now scale up to 385 based on the player’s own item level. Rewards from the original Battle for Azeroth Launch World bosses will remain at item level 355 to stay on par with Uldir.
- Dungeon Rewards and Difficulty: The difficulty of Heroic and Mythic dungeons will also be increase as follows: Normal–340, Heroic–355, and Mythic– 370 (baseline).
- Mythic Keystone Dungeons and PvP: During the first week of Season 2 Mythic Keystone Dungeon rewards will be capped at Mythic 6 quality (item level 385). PvP Season 2 end-of-match rewards will be capped at 385.
- Seals of Wartorn Fate: Seals of Wartorn Fate are not being reset and this same currency can be used for Battle of Dazar’alor and Season 2 bonus rolls; the cap on how many can be held at once remains at 5.

Meh, enough is enough.

I'm not putting any more money into this because, frankly, this design team just hasn't got a clue why its systems are broken, and why so many players are resolutely unhappy with it. With a single raid tier, the item level has been well over doubled from what the expansion starts with, and rather than keeping content relevant it just gets made laughably pointless with a shallow system that players want sheer luck from in order to gear past the spots of what they're actually doing.

Welcome to Diablo 3, built by a team that has fundamentally no interest in making a game that its players are interested in.

Dungeons just jump 30 points, while WQs jump to 385.

Jesus.

So what? You will still be a noob who cannot even clear HC. What does it matter if there is some good catchup? As a top 200 mythic raider, I approve of this, as it makes it easy to catchup with alts.

Also change your 'location', from somewhere fun to 'pit of whiners', cause you are anything but fun.

[Elias01]

So what? You will still be a noob who cannot even clear HC. What does it matter if there is some good catchup? As a top 200 mythic raider, I approve of this, as it makes it easy to catchup with alts.

Also change your 'location', from somewhere fun to 'pit of whiners', cause you are anything but fun.

And this noob have same gear as you and cleared same content as you own same rewards as you with exception of 1 achievement. So you can be skilled as you want but in the end we are both at same level when comes to character progresion. Oh yeah and btw this is RPG game not compettive game skill is cool but not main thing what should matter in RPG.

[ladybugg]

its fine, game shouldnt be all about raids, give more outdoor content.

[Justpassing]

So what, why plan ahead when you can just squish?

[Noxina]

10 and 25 are two "modes". There were two "difficulties" (Normal and Heroic).

If you want to go this way, we can say we now have a shitload of difficulties. LFR, 10-man Normal, 11-man Normal, 12-man Normal... So yay, we have Mythic 20, Normal 10-30, Heroic 10-30, and LFR (which is also flexible but I'll be nice and only count one), that's a whopping 42 difficulty modes solely for the raids !

The difference between 10 and 25 man was HUGE in WotLK though, it's a reason 10 man was excluded from realm/world firsts, it was a damn joke compared to 25 man. If I would rate it, I'd go N10man = LFR, N25man = Normal, HC10man = HC and HC25man = mythic if judging by todays standards.

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And this noob have same gear as you and cleared same content as you own same rewards as you with exception of 1 achievement. So you can be skilled as you want but in the end we are both at same level when comes to character progresion. Oh yeah and btw this is RPG game not compettive game skill is cool but not main thing what should matter in RPG.

How is normal/LFR the same gear level as mythic though? Also, is gear the only thing that matters?

[Sting]

And warfronts? Icurrsion? Weekly events? World boss? Those goes uptu heroic level and not even talking about titanforging.

Afaik incursions will be capped at 385 like the emissary. Warfronts are on a 3 week cycle, so is the world boss that drops the good stuff and the weekly event that gives a heroic cache is on a 7 week rotation. I don't see any of those sources as a major issue. The gap will widen over the course of BdA (once again, good thing imo). The regular every day sources like the incursions and the emissary are now in a good spot after season 2 starts.

Edit: I didn't mention titanforging, but the impact of titanforging is tied to how often you can roll the dice and how you need to roll for it be a good endgame item. With the decreased titanforge chance compared from Legion to BfA, I think it's in a good spot right now.

[Zequill]

Okay, I'll clear this up for the people who just don't get it.

Tell me:

1. When did dungeon items get their item levels increased, rather than new dungeons with better gear?
2. When did World Quests start getting their items increased, rather than replaced via new content?
3. When did vendors get their items increased, rather than a new tier vendor prior to the system removal?
4. When did gear bonus procs start their random item level increase, rather than a specific value?

I'll let you start with those four. And, to be fair, anyone is allowed to answer them. I'll happily correct those who are wrong, just to put this "this iz fiftein yearz lolz" claim out of the thread, because it's laughably incorrect.

@OneWay, @XDurionX, @Gaidax and @Felrush are all invited to answer these questions, too.

One things stay true since Vanilla, the valid ways of getting gear get level increase during the expansion. In vanilla you had two source of high end gear, Raid and PVP. Both got increase as patch went on (only once for PVP as far as I remember but it's still got increase). Now, you are not stuck with raiding if you want pve gear, you can do mythic+ and still get the same ilevel as a raider. That being said, for the question.

1. The question could be : When did dungeon items went from the step between leveling and raiding to a possible max level gear source: Legion. For level increase, we could even say WOD with the introduction of Mythic dungeon.
2. WQ are a new addition of Legion so the answer can only be Legion.
3. For PVP vendor gear, Vanilla, so the beginning of time. For PVE, TBC, so not far from the beginning of time.
4. Look like WOD, but the bonus ilevel increase origin from there, so it's hard to answer anything before. As gear get higher base ilevel, the final ilevel of those bonus also go up.

So, in resume, most of those question are answer by : Since they were introduce, with the exception of dungeon when their purpose changed.

But yeah, still stupids question but they are now answered.

[snackfeat]

Welcome to World of WarCraft that has been like this for 15 years.

Except it haven't.

[Sencha]

Get ready to farm the exact same content (except the new raid) for 30 more ilvl.

Welcome to where your char was 4 months ago and start doing the same things over and over.

Aren't you grateful?

[Whistl3r]

Dude...the ilvl goes up every patch. It's been that way since the start of the game. Since BC you had catchup or welfare gear to kinda get around the fact you don't want to run old raids on your alts to gear them up and shit. It's not meant to stay relevant. It's been that way forever. You're out of touch OP. Looks like all that gear you paid to get carried through doesn't matter anymore and you'll have to buy it again.

Thats not true at all. "Welfare epics" were brought in for WotLK when they started the badge vendors. You had to grind some to get enough badges for all the items. The timescale of hitting max level and having gear to the current teir of raiding is tiny now. Vanilla you would either need to get carried or grind out your dungeon sets to get into MC or BWL raids and you'd need that gear to get into anything above. If you were late to the raiding game you'd struggle to get runs into early raids in TBC because guilds (at least on my server) were not doing them once they were in BT and beyond. Your fastest route to get BT viable gear was arenas for weeks.

[Nnyco]

What you mean no reason? New raid, new pvp and new m+ season.

[MrLachyG]

Wow. Just... Wow. Here's the text from the post, for those who haven't read it.

- New Maximum Item Level: With great challenges come great rewards and the maximum possible item level will go up to 425.
- Battle for Darkshore Warfront: Battle for Darkshore rewards will also increase to 400 from both the outdoor boss and from Warfront quest that can be completed once per cycle. The difficulty of the Warfront will increase however, and the item level required to queue will increase to 335. These changes will go into effect after the current Warfront cycle has ended. Until that time, players will still receive Season 1 rewards.
- World Quest Emissary Rewards: World Quest Emissary weapon and armor rewards will also now scale up to 385 based on the player’s own item level. Rewards from the original Battle for Azeroth Launch World bosses will remain at item level 355 to stay on par with Uldir.
- Dungeon Rewards and Difficulty: The difficulty of Heroic and Mythic dungeons will also be increase as follows: Normal–340, Heroic–355, and Mythic– 370 (baseline).
- Mythic Keystone Dungeons and PvP: During the first week of Season 2 Mythic Keystone Dungeon rewards will be capped at Mythic 6 quality (item level 385). PvP Season 2 end-of-match rewards will be capped at 385.
- Seals of Wartorn Fate: Seals of Wartorn Fate are not being reset and this same currency can be used for Battle of Dazar’alor and Season 2 bonus rolls; the cap on how many can be held at once remains at 5.

Meh, enough is enough.

I'm not putting any more money into this because, frankly, this design team just hasn't got a clue why its systems are broken, and why so many players are resolutely unhappy with it. With a single raid tier, the item level has been well over doubled from what the expansion starts with, and rather than keeping content relevant it just gets made laughably pointless with a shallow system that players want sheer luck from in order to gear past the spots of what they're actually doing.

Welcome to Diablo 3, built by a team that has fundamentally no interest in making a game that its players are interested in.

Dungeons just jump 30 points, while WQs jump to 385.

Jesus.

you're right, how dare Blizzard keep dungeons and world quests relevant by increasing the ilvl you can get! the absolute cheek of it!

[Dilbon]

People that do hard(er) content are upset because they no longer can be better than casuals when it comes to item level.