1. #1

    Alliance War Effort

    Can anyone elaborate on the Alliance war effort? I don't see any reason for them to invade Dazar'alor and kill king Rastakhan. This act only gives Zandalari a reason to join the Horde and pursue revenge against them. Did Anduin personally order the Alliance to attack Dazar'alor or is it Jaina doing?

    I hope that Zandalari will get revenge for their fallen king. They kinda got caught in the middle of the tension of the war. watching Rastakhan dying like that really hurt me.
    The sands of time have run out, Son of Durotan, The cries of war echo upon the winds, The remnants of the past scar the land, which is besieged once again by conflict...
    Heroes arise to challenge fate and lead their brethren to battle, As mortal armies rush blindly towards their doom, The Burning Shadow comes to consume us all.

  2. #2
    The Insane Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    The Alliance's goal was to split the Zandalari and the Horde, and hold Rahstakhan possibly as a hostage to insure that they remained not part of the Horde.

    Instead he's dead and the Zandalari now join the Horde
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  3. #3
    Not sure about the whole tickling Rastakhan into submission part of the plan, but destroying Zandalari fleet was surely one of their main objectives. I mean, that's basically what the Horde was after from the start and why they've contacted the Zandalari in the first place.

  4. #4
    Scarab Lord Nnyco's Avatar
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    Its almost like some kid is their leader.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    The Alliance's goal was to split the Zandalari and the Horde, and hold Rahstakhan possibly as a hostage to insure that they remained not part of the Horde.

    Instead he's dead and the Zandalari now join the Horde

    Yeah I get it but it isn't shown that way. They destroyed Zandalari fleet and killed soldiers without giving them a chance. I also don't find it implausible to expect that Zandalari "God-King" would kneel before some Alliance invaders.
    The sands of time have run out, Son of Durotan, The cries of war echo upon the winds, The remnants of the past scar the land, which is besieged once again by conflict...
    Heroes arise to challenge fate and lead their brethren to battle, As mortal armies rush blindly towards their doom, The Burning Shadow comes to consume us all.

  6. #6
    It also seems that they wanted to get rid of the remains of night elves and dogs, still in the alliance.

    Anduin :
    Okay, Tyrande, you want to go back in darkshore against my will? You too Genn? No problem.
    ***5 minutes later ***
    All right guys, I know what troops we will send in the suicide mission part of our plan.
    Last edited by Tarba; 2019-01-23 at 06:09 PM.

  7. #7
    Did people forget Jaina and Anduin talking about this reason in the first quest of BfA? Everybody knows the Horde was trying to court the Zandalari for its naval power.

    They're attacking Dazar'alor to:

    a.) Destroy the Zandalari Fleet, the only navy that can challenge the Kul Tiran Fleet. Which they do.

    and

    b.) Destabilize the alliance between the Zandalari and the Horde. Their plan to do this was to stealthily invade the capital and take their leader, King Rastakhan, hostage. This fails because Rastakhan decides to fight and die and Sylvanas, in an asspull of mischaracterization, suddenly pretends to care about the Zandalari, despite her reason for seeking them out now eliminated, and says they will not forsake them. And Talanji agrees to fully join because of Rokhan and the players' actions during questing.
    Last edited by Necroxis; 2019-01-23 at 06:12 PM.

  8. #8
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow of the Darkspear View Post
    Yeah I get it but it isn't shown that way. They destroyed Zandalari fleet and killed soldiers without giving them a chance. I also don't find it implausible to expect that Zandalari "God-King" would kneel before some Alliance invaders.
    "Giving them a chance" makes no real sense in terms of military engagement - they need the Zandalari navy reduced so that it and they can be defeated in the final engagements, fighting them on even terms fleet-to-fleet only increases the odds that the Alliance would be defeated. The Horde, in a similar position, would and should make the same call - remove or reduce your enemies capacity in a fight and then defeat them. This is a pretty clean-cut engagement - if the alliance were massacring fleeing soldiers or civilians it would be another thing but the Zandalari fire on them first, their hostility is made self-evident.

    Rastakhan also doesn't kneel to the Alliance invaders - he fights them and is killed in the process of doing so, he goes down fighting to his last. The battle itself is far from over as well, with the bulk of the Zandalari armies en route back from Nazmir following the Alliance's feint there. The Alliance scored an important victory and reduced the Horde's power, giving them the edge for now - whether or not they make good use of it remains to be seen.
    "This is what I am called. I'm called Glad-of-War, Grim, Raider, and Third. I am One-Eyed. I am also called Highest, and True-Guesser. I am Grimnir, and the Hooded One. I am All-Father, Gondlir Wand-Bearer. I have as many names as there are winds, as many titles as there are ways to die. My ravens are Huginn and Muninn: Thought and Memory. My wolves are Freki and Geri. My horse is the gallows."

  9. #9
    The Zandalari were one of the most powerful factions, and the Alliance were afraid that they couldn't stand a chance if they were to join the Horde. What they didn't know is that their invasion will be the cause of the Zandalari fully joining the Horde, though in a weakened state.

  10. #10
    Alliance never had any moral issues with killing trolls. Hell, one of military branches in Stromgard is “trollhunter”. Kul’Tiran people used to hunt Darkspears on their own islands even before these trolls met the Horde. In times of Varian’s grand daddy’s rule, Stormwind expanded their own borders into the lands of Gurubashi and when trolls retaliated, Prince of Stormwind, his best buddy and Madiev traveled to Stranglethorn and assassinated Gurubashi leader (very similar plan, come to think of it). Unfortunately that resulted in Gurubashi amassing an army and almost overwhelming Stormwind defenses (killing Varian’s granddad in the process) until Mediev went full Guardian and evaporated their entire army.
    Alliance might be a faction of lawful good patriots that fight only for justice and rainbows, but their history isn’t going anywhere. Humans and trolls were enemies for a very long time and this attack wasn’t anything unexpected, when you think about it. Just another tragedy in a long list of conflicts between these races.

  11. #11
    Pandaren Monk Azahel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow of the Darkspear View Post
    Can anyone elaborate on the Alliance war effort? I don't see any reason for them to invade Dazar'alor and kill king Rastakhan. This act only gives Zandalari a reason to join the Horde and pursue revenge against them. Did Anduin personally order the Alliance to attack Dazar'alor or is it Jaina doing?

    I hope that Zandalari will get revenge for their fallen king. They kinda got caught in the middle of the tension of the war. watching Rastakhan dying like that really hurt me.
    It's simple. After the siege of Lordaeron, Sylvannas is all about needing something more or they won't be able to carry on with the war, they need more troops and a fleet, they go to Zandalar. Now the Alliance has a huge, scary fleet and the Horde has anger and grief.

  12. #12
    Mechagnome etheldald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow of the Darkspear View Post
    Can anyone elaborate on the Alliance war effort? I don't see any reason for them to invade Dazar'alor and kill king Rastakhan. This act only gives Zandalari a reason to join the Horde and pursue revenge against them. Did Anduin personally order the Alliance to attack Dazar'alor or is it Jaina doing?

    I hope that Zandalari will get revenge for their fallen king. They kinda got caught in the middle of the tension of the war. watching Rastakhan dying like that really hurt me.
    Let me tell you why.
    The zandalari were allied with the horde, they were giving sanctuary to the horde, they attacked kultiras twice,rasthakan stored in his vault the abyssal scepter that the horde stoled and they attacked the alliance twice before that.
    and their navy was the only real threat for the alliance war effort, without the zandalari fleet, alliance will gain naval superiority with the kultiran fleet, the attack is effective and they are "weeks away from victory".

    Anduin intended to attack to cut their bond, jaina intended to destabilize the zandalari and take out key targets. the plan was first to capture rasthakan and force him to surrender and leave the zandalari out of the war, if rasthakan cared about his people.

    but since he didn't surrendered, genn/jaina the PC killed him because they had no other choice.
    Last edited by etheldald; 2019-01-23 at 07:11 PM.

  13. #13
    The Lightbringer Maxrokur's Avatar
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    Destroying their fleet and killing important targets like the loa champions, some top soldiers of the horde left there and kidnapp Rastakhan to keep the trolls at bay, however this didn't work out in the last part but they weakened the zandalari enough to the point they need the horde or otherwise they can be eated by Mogus or from another alliance assault
    Quote Originally Posted by Varitok View Post
    No, she is my waifu. Stop posting and delete this thread immediately.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    Voted Baine because... Well, Baine. Total nonsensical character, looks like World War II Italy, nobody really understands what role he's supposed to fill, not even himself

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxrokur View Post
    Destroying their fleet and killing important targets like the loa champions, some top soldiers of the horde left there and kidnapp Rastakhan to keep the trolls at bay, however this didn't work out in the last part but they weakened the zandalari enough to the point they need the horde or otherwise they can be eated by Mogus or from another alliance assault
    I doubt that Mogu have enough menpower to do anything anymore.

  15. #15
    Honestly, if the Alliance only wanted to drive a wedge between Horde and the Zandalari, their best bet would have been to just destroy the fleet and get out. This makes the trolls a lot less valuable to the Horde and at least has a chance of causing friction between the two powers as Sylvanas, callous as she can be, might decide to ditch them (in actuality she probably wouldn't, but assuming so is IMO not too unreasonable).

    But the idea of storming the city, causing tons of damage and death, then expecting the God-King to just surrender when confronted? In real life this wouldn't be the worst gambit because, well, people like living, but in a world where kings are by default supermen and this one in particular is empowered by a death god? Optimistic doesn't even begin to describe this adventure.

    As it is, the Alliance executes a plan that would be flawless if their goal was to greatly weaken the Horde's newest ally. But attaching the goal of separating the two powers kind of suddenly makes the Battle a bit of an unwise move. It's still recognized as a victory, just a sloppy one.

  16. #16
    The Lightbringer Maxrokur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwento View Post
    I doubt that Mogu have enough menpower to do anything anymore.
    They took a huge port and also the shado-pan is attacking both zandalaris and mogu in the WQ so they are being considered a powerful force if the lazy pandas are even sending assassins against them
    Last edited by Maxrokur; 2019-01-24 at 04:12 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Varitok View Post
    No, she is my waifu. Stop posting and delete this thread immediately.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophenia View Post
    Voted Baine because... Well, Baine. Total nonsensical character, looks like World War II Italy, nobody really understands what role he's supposed to fill, not even himself

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by etheldald View Post
    Let me tell you why.
    The zandalari were allied with the horde, they were giving sanctuary to the horde, they attacked kultiras twice,rasthakan stored in his vault the abyssal scepter that the horde stoled and they attacked the alliance twice before that.
    and their navy was the only real threat for the alliance war effort, without the zandalari fleet, alliance will gain naval superiority with the kultiran fleet, the attack is effective and they are "weeks away from victory".

    Anduin intended to attack to cut their bond, jaina intended to destabilize the zandalari and take out key targets. the plan was first to capture rasthakan and force him to surrender and leave the zandalari out of the war, if rasthakan cared about his people.

    but since he didn't surrendered, genn/jaina the PC killed him because they had no other choice.
    This post is full of smelly alliance bias.

  18. #18
    Mechagnome etheldald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grazrug View Post
    This post is full of smelly alliance bias.
    Why ? can you refute any of the things that i said?

  19. #19
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jastall View Post
    Honestly, if the Alliance only wanted to drive a wedge between Horde and the Zandalari, their best bet would have been to just destroy the fleet and get out. This makes the trolls a lot less valuable to the Horde and at least has a chance of causing friction between the two powers as Sylvanas, callous as she can be, might decide to ditch them (in actuality she probably wouldn't, but assuming so is IMO not too unreasonable).

    But the idea of storming the city, causing tons of damage and death, then expecting the God-King to just surrender when confronted? In real life this wouldn't be the worst gambit because, well, people like living, but in a world where kings are by default supermen and this one in particular is empowered by a death god? Optimistic doesn't even begin to describe this adventure.

    As it is, the Alliance executes a plan that would be flawless if their goal was to greatly weaken the Horde's newest ally. But attaching the goal of separating the two powers kind of suddenly makes the Battle a bit of an unwise move. It's still recognized as a victory, just a sloppy one.
    I think that rationale was that with the Zandalari navy gone and the power structure destabilized, the Zandalari wouldn't represent much of a net gain to the Horde even if they did ally at the end. The Alliance plan for Rastakhan specifically was likely to force his surrender and then take him into custody - holding him has a bargaining chip against the Zandalari with the implied threat of his death should they cement their alliance to the Horde. But I don't the Alliance knew or suspected that an heir apparent was ready to assume the helm of ruler, and that she already enjoyed a massive approval rating among her people. Knowing what they probably do about the Zandalari they probably thought the Zanchuli Council would debate and bicker, and the delay in their full support for the Horde would spell defeat in the sprawling conflict.

    It's a victory in my books because, despite not destabilizing the leadership of the Zandalari they still removed the primary power that it offered the Horde - so the Alliance walks away from the Battle of Dazar'alor with naval superiority, able to pin the Horde in and stymie their logistics in a war that spans two continents and several islands. This isn't good for the Horde - and they're going to need additional support aside from the Zandalari to compensate for this loss. Makes me wonder if Sylvanas is crazy or desperate enough to try an alliance with the Naga through Azshara herself, and if Xal'atath could play into that?
    "This is what I am called. I'm called Glad-of-War, Grim, Raider, and Third. I am One-Eyed. I am also called Highest, and True-Guesser. I am Grimnir, and the Hooded One. I am All-Father, Gondlir Wand-Bearer. I have as many names as there are winds, as many titles as there are ways to die. My ravens are Huginn and Muninn: Thought and Memory. My wolves are Freki and Geri. My horse is the gallows."

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