BfA zones feels disjointed and empty due to lack of lore and design

[Pakheth]

Okay we all know the lore is kinda bonkers this expaq, but for me a bigger problem is that the horde/alliance zone narratives feel so disjointed from each other.

As a Horde player I have absolutely no idea what is going on over on the other three isles and when I get there to do quests or whatever it feels like I am playing a completely different game. A game where I was not told the story, not told who is the bad guys or wtf is going on.
The enemies in Drustvar look cool but I have no idea why they attack me. All I know is that there are witches and that Eitrigg are scared of them.
That is what I was told during the introduction quest, and that's it.

Since I as a Horde player never got the quest narrative that explains the zone and its lore I have missed out on fundamentally understanding the zone and why it is there. And to me that makes the Kul Tiran isles feel alien and disjointed, just a pretty backdrop with no context. And I bet the Alliance feel the same about the Zandalarian isles too.
Heck just look at Uldir. As an Alliance player you have absolutely no idea what is going on when you go in there or even WHY you go in there in the first place.

I don't mind faction exclusive story, we've had that since Vanilla, though less in the later years. But to the extent that has been done in BfA just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I have no interest in levling up an alliance character, but I would very much like to understand what is going on zone wise, like I have been able to in almost every other expaq, apart from the starting zones in WoD which I also feel the same about and thankfully that was just 2 zones and not 6.

Of course I could read up on the Alliance zones on wowpedia, but to me that is just really poor storytelling, storytelling which Blizz most of the time excels at, but that they decided to ditch this time around for some reason.

It also doesn't help that most of the overarching narrative of the expaq takes place NOT in the new zones, which makes them feel like we are just wasting our time there. What was the point of coming here if the main story barely includes them?
I understand that Blizzard wants the story to include the old world, but it must be possible to do so without ignoring one side(aka the new stuff) completely?

It also doesn't help that the Alliance and Horde isles are not on the same map, which makes me as a player even more reluctant to actually travel to one side or the other. Had it been on the same map it could have been a fun experience just hopping on my Water Strider or my raft toy and ride over there, but instead I have to travel to an npc, get teleported over there with absolutely no ingame immersion other than a menu and use the same npc or hearthstone back. Remember the zeppelins or boats going between Kalimdor and Easter Kingdoms? Why didn't they do this? They do use a boat between Echo Isles and Zandalar. It helps make the world feel bigger at least.
It also worked well for Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor because each of there land masses offered so much each. Zandalar and Kul Tiras are tiny continents with tiny zones which only offers half its content to each faction making this expaq feel even smaller than Legion did, and Legion only had 4 zones.

Add a miniscule amount of pointless(sadly) chests already marked on your map and the exploration value of the BfA zones is thrown out the window, making me even less interested in spending time in the zones.

To me all of the above makes the world seem small this expaq, small and pointless. It is beautifully rendered, but I as a player it doesn't feel like I should be in or belong in half of it.


TL;DR
Splitting up the zones into Horde and Ally and not giving narrative for both factions in the zones makes the zones feel disjointed and off.


Thoughts?

[Krokks]

The zones are fine, the people are the problem.

[Pakheth]

The zones are fine, the people are the problem.

Not sure I understand what you mean?

[Nathasil]

Agree 100%. Especially as the 2x3 Faction-Exclusive zones have absoluty nothing "factiony" about them. They are just neutral zones. All of them could have easily been played by both factions. You do not learn ANYTHING about the Horde in the 3 Zandalari zones, just like you do not learn anyting about the Alliance in the 3 KT zones - you just help the residents. That's all. None of them have anything to do with the faction war. The faction war seems like an added afterthought. One of the consequences is the Alliance lacking ANY lore motivation to go into the first raid, for example. Which is a new low in 15 years of WoW. It's just a shitty design.

If they want to make faction-specific content - fine. But then go all the way and actually create motivating, connected, satisfying content for BOTH factions...not stop mid-way and just deny the factions access to zones with no lore reason to do so.

The reason obviously was to force you into playing at least 2 characters to experience the entire story, and therefore strech out the content as you would need to gear up and grind rep twice. But guess what? Most players do not enjoy grinding the exact same shit worldquests twice just to see the story. It sucks.

BFA could have been a far better expansion without the faction conflict. And no, this is not sarcasm. The faction conflict is only central to the intro-cinematics...it is absolutely not central to the 6 zones, 2 cities, first raid tier. It does get spotlieght in the second raid tier (not in a good way, imho) and will then not play a role again until at least 8.3. The faction conflict is really just a minor side-story. Most of the plot that comes out of it is "Horde only", just like it was in MOP. The expansion wuld have been better if they had used the cinematics to better portrait Kul Tiras, Zandalar and Ghuun.

Just my oppinion, of course.

[In Ogres We Trust]

Within the lore, Kul Tiras has more than enough zones to support an expansion (and a troll area, i.e. Zul'Dare, that would have tied in Zandalar post-BfA), so I was surprised to see Zandalar included in BfA.

[s_bushido]

I don't get it... The blood trolls in Nazmir were screaming about G'huun ever since I set foot in the zone as an Alliance character, and when a Titan construct popped up in Underrot talking about planetary infection, it shouldn't have been too hard to put two and two together.

Kul'Tirans were having problems with the coven, a fallen house Stormsong, and the machinations of the Ashvane. The Zandalari were having problems with the Nazmani, the Sethrak, and a cancer growing inside their own culture with ties to both of them. Beyond that, I don't see why a little mystery from the player-character's perspective is a bad thing. Hell, why would a member of the Horde infiltrating Drustvar have much information about those witches fucking up the place when the Alliance who are there to help the Kul'Tirans are just learning about it themselves?

Besides, it's not as if you're forbidden from playing both factions, you know.

[Gaidax]

I think there is merit to both sides here.

On one hand I do think that as Alliance character it would be silly to be privy to everything Horde character knows and vice versa. There is a very interesting play going on where you don't get to know everything 100% and this results in one side not understanding what the other side wants/does. Best example is War Campaigns where you do hush hush activities both sides setting up things for the big fight, the whole Zandalari Navy sabotage and Nazmir diversion are really well executed IMO and because Horde does not know about it they got themselves with their pants down.

This nicely transferred to forums IMO, where Horde players were surprised at "wtf how did he blow up all our war effort with the red button??" unaware that it was Alliance plan all along done in their War Campaign. This is really well done - IMO.


On the other hand, I do agree that opposing faction zones could use a bit more introduction and context and it is a lost opportunity there.

[Pakheth]

I don't get it... The blood trolls in Nazmir were screaming about G'huun ever since I set foot in the zone as an Alliance character, and when a Titan construct popped up in Underrot talking about planetary infection, it shouldn't have been too hard to put two and two together.

Kul'Tirans were having problems with the coven, a fallen house Stormsong, and the machinations of the Ashvane. The Zandalari were having problems with the Nazmani, the Sethrak, and a cancer growing inside their own culture with ties to both of them. Beyond that, I don't see why a little mystery from the player-character's perspective is a bad thing. Hell, why would a member of the Horde infiltrating Drustvar have much information about those witches fucking up the place when the Alliance who are there to help the Kul'Tirans are just learning about it themselves?

Besides, it's not as if you're forbidden from playing both factions, you know.

I have no interest in playing Alliance. The races don't interest me.

Mystery is fine, but when the only reason I step into a zone is to do random WQ with no narrative other than "kill 10 boars and you get loot" it just feels hollow to me.
Blizzard has managed to juggle two factions in the same zone since the start so I don't understand why they couldn't continue with this.
They did it wonderfully in the past with for example Howling Fjord, where you as Alliance finds out that humans are decended from Vrykul. That's a cool tidbit that is a nice treat for the Alliance that the Horde doesn't need to know to enjoy the zone. But I cannot enjoy Drustvar because all the mobs to me are just angry twigs with glowy lights and as a Horde player I cannot find out more about the lore of the zone because Blizzard has never created a narrative that gives me that info. Only way for me to understand the story of the zone at all is to play an Alliance character or go online and find the lore, which in my opinion is terrible game story design in an expaq that in Blizzard's own words is all about faction war and pride!

[Pakheth]

Agree 100%. Especially as the 2x3 Faction-Exclusive zones have absoluty nothing "factiony" about them. They are just neutral zones. All of them could have easily been played by both factions. You do not learn ANYTHING about the Horde in the 3 Zandalari zones, just like you do not learn anyting about the Alliance in the 3 KT zones - you just help the residents. That's all. None of them have anything to do with the faction war. The faction war seems like an added afterthought. One of the consequences is the Alliance lacking ANY lore motivation to go into the first raid, for example. Which is a new low in 15 years of WoW. It's just a shitty design.

If they want to make faction-specific content - fine. But then go all the way and actually create motivating, connected, satisfying content for BOTH factions...not stop mid-way and just deny the factions access to zones with no lore reason to do so.

The reason obviously was to force you into playing at least 2 characters to experience the entire story, and therefore strech out the content as you would need to gear up and grind rep twice. But guess what? Most players do not enjoy grinding the exact same shit worldquests twice just to see the story. It sucks.

BFA could have been a far better expansion without the faction conflict. And no, this is not sarcasm. The faction conflict is only central to the intro-cinematics...it is absolutely not central to the 6 zones, 2 cities, first raid tier. It does get spotlieght in the second raid tier (not in a good way, imho) and will then not play a role again until at least 8.3. The faction conflict is really just a minor side-story. Most of the plot that comes out of it is "Horde only", just like it was in MOP. The expansion wuld have been better if they had used the cinematics to better portrait Kul Tiras, Zandalar and Ghuun.

Just my oppinion, of course.

Exactly. Fully agree.

- - - Updated - - -

I think there is merit to both sides here.

On one hand I do think that as Alliance character it would be silly to be privy to everything Horde character knows and vice versa. There is a very interesting play going on where you don't get to know everything 100% and this results in one side not understanding what the other side wants/does. Best example is War Campaigns where you do hush hush activities both sides setting up things for the big fight, the whole Zandalari Navy sabotage and Nazmir diversion are really well executed IMO and because Horde does not know about it they got themselves with their pants down.

This nicely transferred to forums IMO, where Horde players were surprised at "wtf how did he blow up all our war effort with the red button??" unaware that it was Alliance plan all along done in their War Campaign. This is really well done - IMO.


On the other hand, I do agree that opposing faction zones could use a bit more introduction and context and it is a lost opportunity there.

I am all for not everything being open between factions as you said, with information being withheld from one faction and vic versa, as it creates replayability and makes it less carbon copies of each other leveling experience. And as you said, the introduction to the zones is lacking, which is my biggest gripe. Had we as the Horde just have gotten a bit more insight into the other zones other than "it's azerite here" then that would have been really great.

[Pakheth]

No, you're wrong

Please elaborate.

[Lord Pebbleton]

I play alliance and I don't care about Uldir. Though I don't know if that's because I have been told almost nothing about it, or because the titan facility theme feels empty and boring now that we have seen the titans themselves.

The zones do feel disjointed from the overarching theme sometimes. Take Stormsong Valley; it's the worst thing to happen to WoW in a long time. Confused plot, stupid enemies (quilboars...), unresolved storylines, unsatisfying conclusion, and that stupid music that makes you feel like something extremely horrible is about to happen but then it never does. Admittedly they didn't know what to do with the area and changed their mind mid-development, and it shows.

I can't help but feel glad I don't have to put up with Zandalar to be fair. I collected all treasures, killed all rares etc, so I had a good feeling about the horde zones. Nazmir is an atrocious mess of swamps and ugly stuff, Vol'dun is a desert that doesn't feel like a desert (you can see the mountains at the other end of the desert area as soon as you approach it, at least make it bigger...), and Zuldazar is a nightmare to navigate, with the stupid city being dead in the middle and forcing you to go all kinds of alternative routes to avoid it. Drustvar alone is better than all three.

A good story/zone can hold its own if it's good and interesting, even if it isn't exactly tied to the plot. The problem is that a lot of zones aren't really that good (or, as you said, the story is poorly told on the other side, and you lose interest). Add that the faction conflict feels stupid, worn out, and forced, and you have a general mess of an expansion.

[SirBeef]

I don't get it... The blood trolls in Nazmir were screaming about G'huun ever since I set foot in the zone as an Alliance character, and when a Titan construct popped up in Underrot talking about planetary infection, it shouldn't have been too hard to put two and two together.

Kul'Tirans were having problems with the coven, a fallen house Stormsong, and the machinations of the Ashvane. The Zandalari were having problems with the Nazmani, the Sethrak, and a cancer growing inside their own culture with ties to both of them. Beyond that, I don't see why a little mystery from the player-character's perspective is a bad thing. Hell, why would a member of the Horde infiltrating Drustvar have much information about those witches fucking up the place when the Alliance who are there to help the Kul'Tirans are just learning about it themselves?

Besides, it's not as if you're forbidden from playing both factions, you know.

I play both factions, but I agree. If you actually pay attention and read the quests, it's not hard to pick up what is going on from the other side. There is plenty of lore out there in every expansion, most choose to ignore it and/or skip it and claim there is no lore, or it's bad, or what have you. While I don't necessarily like the story, there is plenty of it in game to understand what is going on from the Alliance perspective as a Horde player and vice versa.

[coprax]

It's by design, you're not supposed to feel 'at home' in the other three zones; you are invading enemy territory.
As a horde player, you don't have a story in elwyn forrest either, yet the enemies still attack you, don't they?

[Chrotesque]

Exactly. Fully agree.Had we as the Horde just have gotten a bit more insight into the other zones other than "it's azerite here" then that would have been really great.

Imho there is no need for that. For our purposes that's all we care about including interrupting whatever the alliance is doing as much as possible. Now you could argue intel is important, knowing what your enemy is struggling with would be important and under that aspect, I'd agree that this is something that would have been nice, if it would have been intertwined more.

From a more simplistic point of view however I find it okay:
- there is azerite = check
- we can fuck with the alliance over there = check

That's all the reason we'd really need then.

[Zeek Daniels]

So horde players dont know what the alliance zone stories are? Ummm Ok... Thats because it doesnt concern you. Why do you need to know about a Kultiran power swap. Or Bolvars daughter that was hidden away? Or Jaina's family story? Its not your factions story its Alliance, Just like we alliance dont need to know about your troll conflict.

[Pakheth]

I play alliance and I don't care about Uldir. Though I don't know if that's because I have been told almost nothing about it, or because the titan facility theme feels empty and boring now that we have seen the titans themselves.

The zones do feel disjointed from the overarching theme sometimes. Take Stormsong Valley; it's the worst thing to happen to WoW in a long time. Confused plot, stupid enemies (quilboars...), unresolved storylines, unsatisfying conclusion, and that stupid music that makes you feel like something extremely horrible is about to happen but then it never does. Admittedly they didn't know what to do with the area and changed their mind mid-development, and it shows.

I can't help but feel glad I don't have to put up with Zandalar to be fair. I collected all treasures, killed all rares etc, so I had a good feeling about the horde zones. Nazmir is an atrocious mess of swamps and ugly stuff, Vol'dun is a desert that doesn't feel like a desert (you can see the mountains at the other end of the desert area as soon as you approach it, at least make it bigger...), and Zuldazar is a nightmare to navigate, with the stupid city being dead in the middle and forcing you to go all kinds of alternative routes to avoid it. Drustvar alone is better than all three.

A good story/zone can hold its own if it's good and interesting, even if it isn't exactly tied to the plot. The problem is that a lot of zones aren't really that good (or, as you said, the story is poorly told on the other side, and you lose interest). Add that the faction conflict feels stupid, worn out, and forced, and you have a general mess of an expansion.

Yeh, Uldir was rather lackluster for being a Titan themed raid, which I think is sad as I love Titan stuff. To me it just felt not as thought out as other examples in wow. It kinda ended before it began in Uldir which was an odd feeling.

I absolutely loathe Nazmir. If Blizzard wanted to make a genuine swamp they succeeded, so A for effort I guess.

Deserts are supposed to be big and Voldun just isn't. And that has been a problem for many expaqs now, the zones are just too small and cramped. I know it is mostly due to the no flying thing, but come on. Jade Forest for example is a huge zone that is a joy to be in both on foot and in the air so it shouldn't be that hard to replicate. Size helps on immersion and zone immersion has been lacking since start of WoD imo.

I just really wish we had a bit more narrative on each side so that we were not just fumbling in the dark, or at least make the lore available in game for the opposite faction somehow.

[McNeil]

When I first did Siege of Boralus as a Horde, I kept wondering why the humans were attacking each other and who was behind the attack. You didn’t get any of this as a Hordie and you end up fighting both groups because reasons. The Alliance also feel way out of place in Uldir.

[Pakheth]

So horde players dont know what the alliance zone stories are? Ummm Ok... Thats because it doesnt concern you. Why do you need to know about a Kultiran power swap. Or Bolvars daughter that was hidden away? Or Jaina's family story? Its not your factions story its Alliance, Just like we alliance dont need to know about your troll conflict.

Then why should I as a Horde bother to do half the content of the expansion? Don't you think that is a bit sad? 3 full zones I will never experience because only reason I go there is either to kill allies or do some disjointed WQ with no story? That leaves only 3 zones for me to enjoy, 1 of which I absolutely loathe(Nazmir). To me it feels rather barebones compared to previous expaqs and from a game developement point of view a waste of resources designing those zones.

- - - Updated - - -

It's by design, you're not supposed to feel 'at home' in the other three zones; you are invading enemy territory.
As a horde player, you don't have a story in elwyn forrest either, yet the enemies still attack you, don't they?

You don't go to Elwynn Forest to do World Quests or world bosses which is the biggest issue I have. We have content in the zones, but we will never understand why those zones are there.
Low level zones meant for leveling that has no content for my faction I am completely fine with, but as I mentioned when there is content there then I would actually like to know wtf is going on and I shouldn't have to seek information outside the game to do so, or level a whole new character on a faction I don't like just to find out. That is just bad game design.

- - - Updated - - -

Imho there is no need for that. For our purposes that's all we care about including interrupting whatever the alliance is doing as much as possible. Now you could argue intel is important, knowing what your enemy is struggling with would be important and under that aspect, I'd agree that this is something that would have been nice, if it would have been intertwined more.

From a more simplistic point of view however I find it okay:
- there is azerite = check
- we can fuck with the alliance over there = check

That's all the reason we'd really need then.

That only works if you don't care about context outside of loot and pvp(or killing alliance npc's), but WoW to me is more than just those two. I care about the whole package; story, art, music, gameplay, etc. and when a huge part of that is missing or just not available I feel kinda miffed. Especially since we have gotten dual narrative in previous iterations of the game.

[Fistfighter]

It's because there were two teams, both writting each continent seperately and then a third team trying to weave them together with the war campaign.

Both Kul Tiras and Zandalar quests and lore are very well on their own, but feel both disjointed and mismatched when placed along side each other.

I have a strong feeling we will get some MoP map evolving, like we got in Krasarang and Vale of the Capital Cities. There is a lot of unused space on both Zandalar and Kul Tiras that I feel would work great as a base for the opposing faction. For example the crescent bay on the west side of mountains in Zuldazar.

[Pakheth]

It's because there were two teams, both writting each continent seperately and then a third team trying to weave them together with the war campaign.

Both Kul Tiras and Zandalar quests and lore are very well on their own, but feel both disjointed and mismatched when placed along side each other.

I have a strong feeling we will get some MoP map evolving, like we got in Krasarang and Vale of the Capital Cities. There is a lot of unused space on both Zandalar and Kul Tiras that I feel would work great as a base for the opposing faction. For example the crescent bay on the west side of mountains in Zuldazar.

I hope so too. Always make me sad when unused areas end up never coming into play in an expaq.