truth comes to light about PvP Vendors - Q&A

[Big Thanks]

From the recent Q&A:
"There isnt a raid vendor where you can buy all the raid loot"

Therefore....there wont be PvP vendors

Unbelievable

[Thelxi]

I started seeing their intentions all the way back in MoP when it became clear to me that they were thinking about removing deterministic rewards in favor of more RNG. At the time no one thought it was a big deal and and few understood the dangers of this slippery slope, yet here we are today. Tinfoil hat lol.

[Big Thanks]

I started seeing their intentions all the way back in MoP when it became clear to me that they were thinking about removing deterministic rewards in favor of more RNG. At the time no one thought it was a big deal and and few understood the dangers of this slippery slope, yet here we are today. Tinfoil hat lol.

They laughed at you at the time for being crazy.

Look who is laughing now?
...Not even you are laughing because this sucks

I mean, am i doing something wrong?
I did 1000 arenas last season and i only got like...2 of those items to improve my gear item level by a lot.
I was 1850 rating.

How are we supposed to update all our gear slots with this kind of drop rates?

[Lazuli]

https://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/...-conquest-cap/

lol look how fucking absolutely cancerous this whole process is..

I'm so glad I quit this shit months ago, it pisses me off and it doesn't even affect me, that's how retarded it is.

A convoluted process for 0 reason instead of just make 1 currency. If only such a thing existed.. maybe we could idk call it honor or something LOL.

WoW devs are straight up retarded faggots these days it blows my mind, all they do is go backwards in development now.

No raid vendors? Lol okay I guess 'welfare epics' have never existed either.

I mean the retardation is reaching its maximum my head may explode soon.

Fuck WoW and its devs

[Kagthul]

They laughed at you at the time for being crazy.

Look who is laughing now?
...Not even you are laughing because this sucks

I mean, am i doing something wrong?
I did 1000 arenas last season and i only got like...2 of those items to improve my gear item level by a lot.
I was 1850 rating.

How are we supposed to update all our gear slots with this kind of drop rates?

You literally earn the entire set of gear from filling up the Conquest bar every week.

Twice.

Once at the "base" level - same as NM Raids, and once at the ~1900 rating level - sams as Heroic Raids.

AND you can still get drops from individual games, AND you get an item in your PvP box based on your rating. (which can go all the way to M ythic iLevel, AND TITANFORGE).

As of Season 2, you get a choice of FOUR different items for each slot.

The ONLY thing you dont get to choose is which order you recieve the items in.

Is it 100% the best system theyve had? No, vendors would still be better because you could choose the order in which you receive the items.

But this system is far from awful. You get one guaranteed item every week, and your choice of 4 items for that slot. Some weeks you get a choice between two different slots. You get another guaranteed item based on your rating every week, and up to 3 items every Warfront cycle.

Hell, the current system is BETTER for choice, because previously there were (from the vendor) often only TWO items to choose from for each slot.

[Irian]

Yeah because they fucking removed it. There were tier gear and badge vendors for ages.

Christ, this development team can't be any more incompetent. They're overanalyzing and creating problems in their efforts to fix shit that nobody ever had an issue with.
Stuff like this makes me convinced WoW has no hope looking forward. These people have no idea why people would even want to play an MMORPG considering they're trying their damnedest to make WoW a shitty D3 with a different perspective.

[Big Thanks]

You literally earn the entire set of gear from filling up the Conquest bar every week.

Twice.

Once at the "base" level - same as NM Raids, and once at the ~1900 rating level - sams as Heroic Raids.

AND you can still get drops from individual games, AND you get an item in your PvP box based on your rating. (which can go all the way to M ythic iLevel, AND TITANFORGE).

As of Season 2, you get a choice of FOUR different items for each slot.

The ONLY thing you dont get to choose is which order you recieve the items in.

Is it 100% the best system theyve had? No, vendors would still be better because you could choose the order in which you receive the items.

But this system is far from awful. You get one guaranteed item every week, and your choice of 4 items for that slot. Some weeks you get a choice between two different slots. You get another guaranteed item based on your rating every week, and up to 3 items every Warfront cycle.

Hell, the current system is BETTER for choice, because previously there were (from the vendor) often only TWO items to choose from for each slot.

My question is:

Im doing "the climb"...right?
Along the climb i get items...of rating 1400...1600...1700...1800

Along the climb i got pitiful item level items...that i want to upgrade later on.

How am i replacing/improving this items?

This is my problem

[Kagthul]

People in this thread seem to have no idea how this system works in comparison to the old one.

Ill see if i can clarify for the hard of reading.

Previous system (from TBC - WoD)

Two Currencies - Honor and Conquest.
Honor is earned by all PvP activities.
Conquest is earned through rated activities and (small amounts) through other activities like Random BG First wins and PvEp (like Wintergrasp, Tol Barad, Ashran, etc)

Honor buys you a base gear. You can usuallya void this by doing Heroic dungeons, however. Later xpacs also had a crafted PvP set that was about as good as Honor gear.
Conquest buys you the better PvP gear.

As the seasons go, previous season Conquest gear rotates down to Honor.

As far as Conquest goes, there is a cap on what you can earn. It ROUGHLY works out to one item's worth of Conquest per week unless you're above 2100 rating. Some items are cheaper (rings, bracers, belt were 1350) but some are a lot more expensive (2h weapons were over 3k, a pair of weapons was about the same).

So, roughly, you get one CQ item per week, and the possibility of an additional one through PvEp (Wintergrasp boss could drop 2 pieces of the conquest set and several of the off-pieces, same with Tol-barad; Ashran, same thing). In Mists (I believe) and WoD, you got one item/week from doing the rated BG qeset, and could also get random gear drops that matched your rating.

That system maintained all the way from TBC - WoD.

The Legion system was... beyond fubar. Im still to this day not 100% sure how it worked, but we can all agree it was shit. (Im not 100% how it worked because i played MAYBE 30 BGs for the entirety of Legion and almost all of them right at the start. ) Doing WQs was more rewarding for most people.

The BFA system:
- One "currency" - Conquest.
- You can earn Conquest in LOTS of ways (World PvP, BG First Wins for both categories (and Brawls when active), Arena games (and first wins), Rated BG wins, etc).
- You only have to earn 500 Conquest per week.
- Once youve done so, you immediately get an item - for this season, either 385 (cycle 1) or 400 (cycle 2) (these are the Normal or Heroic raid iLevels). You get to choose from four different options. Some weeks you get less options for a slot but get a choice between two slots.
- At the next reset, you get an item based on your rating. This can Titanforge. If you have no rating, its 385 for Season 2 (counts you as the base rating). You get this from the PvP chest in the PvP area near your capital.
- you can ALSO get random gear drops based on your rating from rated play. From non-rated play, its just the "blue" set for the season (but can still Titanforge).
- you also get a guaranteed Heroic level items from the Warfront once/cycle (about every 2 weeks), and a chance at two more from the WF Worldboss.

So, to recap:
Old System - about one item per week, and a chance at another every week from PvEp. In later xpacs, a chance at rating-based gear drops in Arena and RBGs. Since you bought most items from a vendor, you could choose what order you got them in.

New System - one guaranteed item/week of (currently 385 or 400), one guaranteed item/week based on your rating, and (roughly) one item/week from PvEp (averaging out for the cycle of the WF and the drop chance on items), and can get random drops in rated play based on your rating.

Its roughly equal, guys. The only real difference is that you dont get to choose what order you get the items in. You do actually get more variety of items, though, as the old vendor system usually only had a choice between two items for a given slot (rings and trinkets sometimes being an exception but PvP trinkets were always kinda boring choices - mainstat + vers/health active, or vers + mainstat active? WoW, much choice!) and the new system gives you 4.

its still roughly 3 relevant items per week with RNG maybe getting you more from rated play.

- - - Updated - - -

My question is:

Im doing "the climb"...right?
Along the climb i get items...of rating 1400...1600...1700...1800

Along the climb i got pitiful item level items...that i want to upgrade later on.

How am i replacing/improving this items?

This is my problem

No. you dont seem to have any idea how the system works. You are not supposed to be relying on the random drops for gear.

[Big Thanks]

No. you dont seem to have any idea how the system works. You are not supposed to be relying on the random drops for gear.

But dude...i dont want 375 pieces nor 385 pieces. Nor 400 ilvl pieces infact.

I want to be full ilvl of 1800 rating (which i assume is in the range of 400's something item levels)
Sorry, i dont know what item level is equivalent to 1800 rating.

[Kagthul]

But dude...i dont want 375 pieces nor 385 pieces. Nor 400 ilvl pieces infact.

I want to be full ilvl of 1800 rating (whoch i assume is 400's something item level)

You assume wrong.

1800 rating wont even get you 400. It would get you 385.

You have to be above 2k for 400, and well above 2k (2500+) to get 415, which is the current max (equivalent to Mythic raids).

385 is the LOWEST you can get from rated PvP (you can get lower blue items as random drops from random BGs). That is equivalent to Normal Dazar'Alor
400 is around 2k rating or higher. That is the equivalent of Heroic Dazar'alor
415 (given the rating inflation - 2600+ or better, id wager) is the equivalent of Mythic Dazar'alor.

The only way to get better than 400 is to have absurdly high rating or get lucky with titanforges.

If you ARE above the threshold to get 415, your weekly cache will have a 415 in it, and you can get random 415 drops from rated games. The higher your rating, the better the chances of random loot drops (we're not talking triple or anything. More like.. ... a few% better as you go up in rating).

Otherwise, just like before, once your super high rating, you build your set one piece at a time.

Oh, also, the Conquest bar now also gives you a quartermaster's coin (which you normally get from the wPvP stuff) each week too. 10 coins gets you a piece of gear based on your rating.

[Big Thanks]

You assume wrong.

1800 rating wont even get you 400. It would get you 385.

You have to be above 2k for 400, and well above 2k (2500+) to get 415, which is the current max (equivalent to Mythic raids).

385 is the LOWEST you can get from rated PvP (you can get lower blue items as random drops from random BGs). That is equivalent to Normal Dazar'Alor
400 is around 2k rating or higher. That is the equivalent of Heroic Dazar'alor
415 (given the rating inflation - 2600+ or better, id wager) is the equivalent of Mythic Dazar'alor.

The only way to get better than 400 is to have absurdly high rating or get lucky with titanforges.

If you ARE above the threshold to get 415, your weekly cache will have a 415 in it, and you can get random 415 drops from rated games. The higher your rating, the better the chances of random loot drops (we're not talking triple or anything. More like.. ... a few% better as you go up in rating).

Otherwise, just like before, once your super high rating, you build your set one piece at a time.

Oh, also, the Conquest bar now also gives you a quartermaster's coin (which you normally get from the wPvP stuff) each week too. 10 coins gets you a piece of gear based on your rating.

That cant be right.

On season 1 i got 375 ilvl rewards from 1800 rating which is equivalent to Heroic Uldir

proof:
https://pt.wowhead.com/news=286968/r...on-1-explained

So now i assume i will get on season 2 the equivalent of heroic raid...which is 400.

No?

- - - Updated - - -

Ah ok, you are talking about the random drops in Arena...im talking about the weekly cache which was 375.

But my point still holds.
I need to upgrade all the shitty drops with Coins...but the coin system sucks ass.
I need to waste extra rolls in Arenas now? When is much better spent in raid???

[Nathasil]

The followup question should have been:
"Ok, why are we not having raid-vendors, then?"

[AlmightyGerkin]

Refer to this part "and so the team wants" which means they don't really consider their own player base anymore.

[Big Thanks]

@Kagthul

Im starting to see what you are trying to say.
So...the weekly cache from the chest is...just a bonus? And shouldnt be considered as "my rating gear"?
Is this it?

edit: Wait a second...is EVERYONE getting ilvl 400 pieces just by completing the weekly cap at some point in the future? lol

[Kagthul]

That cant be right.

On season 1 i got 375 ilvl rewards from 1800 rating which is equivalent to Heroic Uldir

proof:
https://pt.wowhead.com/news=286968/r...on-1-explained

So now i assume i will get on season 2 the equivalent of heroic raid...which is 400.

No?

No. Rating inflation is a thing, my man.

What was once 2400 is now almost 3k. Glad cutoff was like 2950 or something absurd.

- - - Updated - - -

Ah ok, you are talking about the random drops in Arena...im talking about the weekly cache which was 375.

No, im not. Im talking about the conquest bar (Cycle 1 is 385, Cycle 2 is 400), and your weekly chest (which is based entirely on your rating, the LOWEST reward it can give you is 385 - thats the -no rating- reward). Your cache this week will have given you gear based on LAST SEASON, not the new season, which literally started tuesday.

The Random drops in Arena are ALSO based on your rating, and you have a better chance of getting a drop in the first place the higher your rating.

But my point still holds.
I need to upgrade all the shitty drops with Coins...but the coin system sucks ass.
I need to waste extra rolls in Arenas now? When is much better spent in raid???

There are no coins to upgrade anything that im aware of (unless that is what you buy with the Quartermaster's Coins - i dont do rated anything, and you couldnt pay me to turn Warmode on); there are two tokens on the Conquest bar cycle - at the end of each cycle - that will upgrade one item you have to the next iLevel (the end of the 385 cycle will have a token to upgrade previous gear to 400, the end of the 400 cycle will have an item that will upgrade one item to 415).

- - - Updated - - -

@Kagthul

Im starting to see what you are trying to say.
So...the weekly cache from the chest is...just a bonus? And shouldnt be considered as "my rating gear"?
Is this it?

The weekly cache is your rating-based reward. If you get high enough, it will drop 415s (that can Titanforge up to 425, which is the current asbolute max).

The conquest bar completion/weekly is a set rotation of items.

edit: Wait a second...is EVERYONE getting ilvl 400 pieces just by completing the weekly cap at some point in the future? lol

Yep. The second cycle of Conquest Bar completions will be iLevel 400. Mind you, you have to go through all 9 or 10 weeks of the 385 cycle first.

[Big Thanks]

@Kagthul

Thank you so much for the info and sorry to bother you for so long.

So a scrub player like myself (1800 rated) will not feel anything and will eventually have all pieces of 400 ilvl.

I can see now...this is strange since everyone and their mothers will have access to 1800 rating gear :S
But ok.

[Ryjax]

Actually, it's basically like the rest of the game: just play and you'll randomly get your best pieces for no reason. Soon enough the weekly conq pieces will be too low iLvL to even be an upgrade. Just like last season.

Yay.

[Kagthul]

@Kagthul

Thank you so much for the info and sorry to bother you for so long.

So a scrub player like myself (1800 rated) will not feel anything and will eventually have all pieces of 400 ilvl.

I can see now...this is strange since everyone and their mothers will have access to 1800 rating gear :S
But ok.

It was the same in Season 1 - the first Cycle of the conquest bar was 355, and the second was 370 (same as Heroic raids), and the max was 385. The second cycle also included an upgrade token to 385 (which i used on my weapon).

Now, if you’re arguing that the system doesn’t encourage you to do rated... .

Yeah, ill agree with that 100%. When you can get what is effectively “second best” gear from doing casual random BGs very easily, and that “Second best” gear is probably as good or better than you could get on the rated ladder anyway (because most people wont get high enough to get the “top”/Mythic iLevel gear anyway)... there’s very little incentive to do rated.

I haven’t even felt remotely tempted. I can cap the conquest bar every week with just 10 BG first-wins. (Regular BG first-win, Epic BG first win, 5x each, is 525 CQ). On a week with Brawls, its even easier (as the Brawl also gives the same CQ as a regular BG first-win).

And thats not doing anything remotely difficult or time consuming. Most days its a whopping ~30 minutes of time (and while in the queue, doing the daily Emissary or Invasion).

So, yeah, i totally agree with the sentiment that its not super rewarding to do rated right now. And that is... potentially a problem? I personally believe that rated play, specifically Arena, is what started the utter demolition of WoW PvP and they should just delete it, but i realize that isn’t for everyone.

The current system is perhaps a little TOO casual friendly (and i say that as a casual) but what WoW really needs is a system that rewards both casuals and rated play. What probably needs to happen to the current system is probably more consistent rewards of the appropriate iLevel for rated players (like.. bad-luck protection on the random drops from games. Say, guaranteed 1 item every 10 wins, or whatever - number to be adjusted for balance), but the rewards for casuals are right where they need to be. (After about 20 weeks you have a full set of “not quite the best” PvP gear seems just fine).

Keeps me (and people like me) queueing at least, and that keeps the queue times down.

[Kralljin]

I think there are two things that need to taken into account:

First, PvP is no longer a closed off a progression, due the removal of Resilience / PvP Power, any gear is equal at its core, thus the PvP reward system needs to be in line in terms of rewards to the PvE System(s).

If it's too rewarding, people get the idea to be "forced" into PvP for good rewards (Or you get a repetition of BC if even unrated PvP rewards very good loot)
If it's too unrewarding, then people lose incentive to play PvP, as seen in Legion.

I raid both Mythic and do Highrated PvP, been wearing a handful of PvP pieces even in PvE, including Azerite Armor.

Second, and that is a general issue of the game: Gear inflation.

The amount of time it takes to acquire gear pieces has been going down forever, but now we are reaching a point where the cracks are really starting to show.
Originally, stuff like M+ (and it's chest) didn't exist, Raids did not drop as much loot as they drop now, World Quests didn't exist, etc. you get the idea.

So in order to counter this effect of people getting geared too fast and thus losing the motivation to further play, Blizzard put more RNG into the system, to keep the overall pace of loot acqusition the same but have an "additional reward" (a.k.a. just more Ilvl) in place.

In TBC you saved up weeks for a handful of Pieces, now you hit M+, go into a raid, do some WQ / Assaults / Warfronts / Get an upgrade from your Weekly Chest and you're set.

While there could be ways to implement a PvP vendor, the core issue is simply that quantity of loot we are getting has increased steadily throughout the expansions.
If we want to return to a more deterministic loot system, we also have to swallow the bitter pill of going without loot for weeks.

What was once 2400 is now almost 3k. Glad cutoff was like 2950 or something absurd.

Kinda irrelevant now as you get Glad Title + Mount just by winning 50 games above 2,4k in 3v3.
Unless you're aiming for Rank 1.

[xindralol]

But dude...i dont want 375 pieces nor 385 pieces. Nor 400 ilvl pieces infact.

I want to be full ilvl of 1800 rating (which i assume is in the range of 400's something item levels)
Sorry, i dont know what item level is equivalent to 1800 rating.

This is the problem. Upgrade tokens are RNG and the blue ones are almost useless. So the weekly item doesn't do a whole lot unless you play a LOT of games and actually have plenty of epic upgrade tokens and RNG titanforge/socket.