No Tier gear is the worst idea ever, ugh !!!

[Zyrinx]

Apart from it not changing between specs, the Azerite system is superior to Tier Set Bonuses in every way.

Visually?

If you're casual enough just pick the Generic trait in each ring. I can't imagine it makes that much difference in numbers.

[grexly75]

You mean like getting a superior azerite piece of gear and not having the neck score to fully utilize its traits? Same difference dude. Who cares about gear score anymore anyway?There’s still lower ilvl trinkets that are better than newer trinkets that came out in 8.1.5. At least tier bonuses would alter your rotation in some meaningful and interesting way. I didn’t care if I kept an older 2 piece tier bonus if it meant performing better in a raid.

No I am talking about where in Legion where you would get say a piece of gear that filled any of the tier slots, that was far superior in terms of primary and secondary stats, but were useless due to it breaking either your two or four set..

[Moonshield13]

No I am talking about where in Legion where you would get say a piece of gear that filled any of the tier slots, that was far superior in terms of primary and secondary stats, but were useless due to it breaking either your two or four set..

Right. So the bonuses were still OP beyond the current content. There’s nothing inheritantly wrong with the concept of tier bonuses and their strengths, it’s that Blizzard was at fault for not detuning bonuses once the next tier was released. Besides, I still stand by original statement. These days, ilvl and stat distributions in azerite gear and trinkets are second to how they sim out. I could have a superior ilvl piece of azerite with shit traits but if I have an inferior ilvl azerite with BiS traits then that’s what I’m going with (if it sims better). Don’t get me started on the RNG crap nature of even getting decent azerite gear.

The current implementation of Azerite gear is a lazy and more streamlined mishmash approach to replacing artifacts and tier. Except tier offered better flexibility between specs. I don’t enjoy simming every piece of azerite with different traits for different specs for different situations (single target vs aoe) to find out if an item is useful to me or not. That’s not fun to me. I spend just about half of time in game alt-tabbed out just to find out if a piece of Azerite gear is useful. I don’t find that compelling gameplay if I don’t have much flexibility between specs and different situations AND I have to go to third party apps and sites to see if I’m going to play competitively.

[dcc626]

Except when you realize that the Azerite system replaced the Artifact system, not tier set bonuses. We simply lost tier set bonuses entirely and got a worse version of the Artifact system.

and in 8.2 the neck talent system will be the thing that is closest to the artifact weapon trees. so this will all be a moot point.

[Thorbalt]

Right. So the bonuses were still OP beyond the current content. There’s nothing inheritantly wrong with the concept of tier bonuses and their strengths, it’s that Blizzard was at fault for not detuning bonuses once the next tier was released. Besides, I still stand by original statement. These days, ilvl and stat distributions in azerite gear and trinkets are second to how they sim out. I could have a superior ilvl piece of azerite with shit traits but if I have an inferior ilvl azerite with BiS traits then that’s what I’m going with (if it sims better). Don’t get me started on the RNG crap nature of even getting decent azerite gear.

The current implementation of Azerite gear is a lazy and more streamlined mishmash approach to replacing artifacts and tier. Except tier offered better flexibility between specs. I don’t enjoy simming every piece of azerite with different traits for different specs for different situations (single target vs aoe) to find out if an item is useful to me or not. That’s not fun to me. I spend just about half of time in game alt-tabbed out just to find out if a piece of Azerite gear is useful. I don’t find that compelling gameplay if I don’t have much flexibility between specs and different situations AND I have to go to third party apps and sites to see if I’m going to play competitively.

Tier bonuses have always forced people into specific talents in every single spec. and simming every piece of gear is a waste of time unless you are in the top 5 for world first, so you have no one to blame but yourself for "wasting" so much time. its pretty easy to have an idea of which order your top traits are in and use your own brain to think about which works better for your setup

[Razzako]

They did it to cut costs and it's extremely obvious.

Problem is, we can't state it as a fact.

[Weeps]

You derp out during classic raiding since half the set during classic where absolutely bad. A mage in tier 1 or tier 2 can only be laugh at. They had to buff them 2-3 times, even then, most of the pieces where a fraction of what an off-set piece could give you. Naxx tier was slightly better, but even, only fews class would really want a 8 piece.

In a world where raiding is not the only way to gear, having set piece that only drop from raid is absurde.

Yeah well that's... like... your opinion, man.

I think it should come back Tier sets is what separates classes. I am 100% against the current homogenization.

[delus]

What is the point of working on art for tier when set appearances aren't unique to a class? Usually one armor type will have a preferred set, destroying all class uniqueness. Before offset pieces had tier appearances, you'd look at a player and know what class they were. It's useless. Maybe if they go back to tier sets, they should do raid tier sets with generic bonuses or bonuses that would change for your class and spec instead of class tier sets.

[Powerogue]

The idea is that you have separate azerite gear for the other specs, hence so much of the darn stuff dropping everywhere. The reforger is mainly for "I screwed up what traits I thought I should have on this gear, I'll head back to town and fix them."

[kail]

Nothing makes gear lose more meaning, than to remove the gear that was special. But hey, the game's overall direction is all about simplification and homogenization. Just a matter of time before secondary stats are merged into "Special stat" that follows a stat/plateau template of haste, crit etc that Blizzard has decided.

Removal of Tier gear solves inconsequential "problems" and is just another cut of RPG elements in the game. A slot being "locked" because you receive a powerful bonus has to be one of the biggest non-issues in the game.
Oh no, you had a slightly higher ilvl item that wasn't worth using because of set bonus
Boo fucking hoo?

I think it's accurate to say that those who are the most adamant that the removal was a good thing, also were the kind of player who very rarely managed to complete a set anyway.
WoW, the Lowest Common Denominator "RPG"

So it should stick around for the RPG element? What made tier gear more complex than Azerite traits?

[Super Kami Dende]

Visually?

If you're casual enough just pick the Generic trait in each ring. I can't imagine it makes that much difference in numbers.

With Azerite I can choose Traits that might be better for AoE or ST. With Set bonuses the Bonus was static the entire Tier. like "+8% crit to howling blast"

[Moonshield13]

Tier bonuses have always forced people into specific talents in every single spec. and simming every piece of gear is a waste of time unless you are in the top 5 for world first, so you have no one to blame but yourself for "wasting" so much time. its pretty easy to have an idea of which order your top traits are in and use your own brain to think about which works better for your setup

That’s a pretty ignorant statement. Any player worth their salt and caring about bringing their best performance and to contribute to a raid team or participating in Mythic + with the intention of pushing keys is going to Sim their characters. It’s not as easy as you claim AND optimizing azerite traits are still subject to what talents you spec into. It’s a total clusterfuck mishmash attempt to streamline balancing except it’s so convoluted that I hardly know with any certainty what is an upgrade and what is “good.” Not to mention the constant retuning of traits that a player better not scrap, disenchant or sell Azerite gear, because last week’s shitty traits might get buffed next week. This is the whole slew of problems they introduced by scrapping the tier system. Every expansion we get some “grand” new system to try and reinvent the wheel, but this time they’ve gone too far. With all the dumbing down and homogenization of classes and roles, it dumbfounds me how they can prefer a system like this and keep doubling down.

And judging by your references to Legion tier, I’m guessing you might be a newer player, because tier has been around a long fucking time. I’ve played since Vanilla, and never in my experience of playing have people complained about the tier system in ways that justify getting rid of it.

[RobertoCarlos]

No tier was a big reason why i didnt want to spend money on BFA and skipped this expansion entirely.

Main reason being class design though. Tier helped patch up the incredibly mundane and stale class design after 3 expansions of straight pruning

[FelPlague]

This is probably an old topic, but I am pissed;

I am a casual player, and was working on a ton of alts most of BfA so far, but finally getting my guys to i380+, and switching between specs, and for some reason I never realized this, because never really used it before, but ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME WITH THIS BS ?

On my Warrior, when I switch from Fury dps to Protection Warrior, the Azerite traits don't change specs either. I have to go to the Azerite Reforger, and pay money to have those 3 pcs of gear wiped, and then I can choose new traits for the other spec. But F me, it gets expensive the more often you do it. WTF idea was this ?

First off, Legion had it good, you had your Tier gear, lets say your Ret dps, then you change to Prot Tank spec, the gear would automatically change right away for you, and the gear went from dps bonus to tank bonuses. But with this Azerite shit, it doesn't do that, you need to pay big money to keep switching traits, and the more I do it, it's not cheap.

F off at Blizzard, who ever thought this was better than Tier gear.

Azerite gear is literally teir gear.

I think your issue is that azerite gear is not spec based, not that teir gear does not exist.

i agree 100% "Azerite gear should change based on your spec" how we thought it would work since it was announced, and have been pleading for since.
but Azerite gear is literally teir gear, it has the same effects teir gear had before.


oh yeah btw, teir gear before like... i think wod did not change... so lol how did you survive back then? back when teir gear was SUPER rare, but ALSO did not change based on your spec.

[msdos]

I've been thinking about Az gear and tbh with you, it's beginning to grow on me a bit. The major problem I have with it is the Heart, the neck.

The neck is what they're using to keep people logging in doing the miscellaneous, repetitive, inconsequential busy work, it's not necessarily the Az gear its self forcing you to do that. If all of it came with everything unlocked already, it'd be miles better.

Naztajar better be amazing.. Sick of this mediocre bullsh.

[Aoyi]

It was most likely done this way for multiple reasons. They want to remove as much gold from the game as possible. Its something they stated as one of their goals early on which is also why follower missions that reward gold aren’t worth it anymore too. They also want to keep you subbed for longer and running content over and over. With the current implementation, you either spend your gold (first goal) or collect multiple azerite pieces for each spec (2nd goal).

[rrayy]

What the fuck are you talking about, out of curiosity? How does it have no footing in the realm of reality?

The removal of tier sets (whether for good or ill) in no way prevents the art team for creating unique looks for each class - they consciously chose not to. Do you think they merely forgot to, as some form of oversight? I'm struggling to accept that you actually believe what you're typing.

Then you have no clue what I typed. Someone said theY removed tier sets for the sole reason of getting the art team out of having to make unique looks. They did it because they wanted the azerite gear to be in it's place. It is ludicrous to claim they didn't make sets to ease the work load of the art team. Their decision had ZERO to do with the art team.

[Beefkow]

Apart from it not changing between specs, the Azerite system is superior to Tier Set Bonuses in every way.

You have to remember that azerite armor is supposed to make up for what we lost in legion:

-Weapon traits (huge one)
-Pruned spells and put into talent trees
-Legiondaries
-Tier bonuses

So far azerite armor is only good enough to replace tier bonuses alone! Maybe a little bit of legiondaries.

So with that being said, the azerite armor system is an absolute failure.

[munkeyinorbit]

TiEr SeTS aRe BAd!

I miss tier sets. I like the feeling of finally completing my BiS 4 piece. In fact I want them to bring back 8 set bonuses.

Oh you know that’s what classic raiding pretty much was or did you derp out?

Tier sets are fun.

It's fun having 3 piece of tier n in your bags while you wear tier n-1.
It's fun having tier slots drop for the raid where they will be just vendored. Wasted loot is so fun.
It's fun getting big TF procs out of loot chests only to put it in the bank hoping to one day use it knowing you never will.
It's fun dying a little inside everytime your tier chest doesn't drop even though you have 6 pieces of tier gloves.
You should become a developer. You like crushing people trying to have fun.

[Moonshield13]

It's fun having 3 piece of tier n in your bags while you wear tier n-1.
It's fun having tier slots drop for the raid where they will be just vendored. Wasted loot is so fun.
It's fun getting big TF procs out of loot chests only to put it in the bank hoping to one day use it knowing you never will.
It's fun dying a little inside everytime your tier chest doesn't drop even though you have 6 pieces of tier gloves.
You should become a developer. You like crushing people trying to have fun.

So you must be the authority on FUN. Teach us, Oh wise one!