They've been god tier in pve and pvp since launch if you weren't really bad at the game/had a healer with you.
They've been god tier in pve and pvp since launch if you weren't really bad at the game/had a healer with you.
"I'm not stuck in the trench, I'm maintaining my rating."
My main problem with warriors since MoP hasn't been the numbers so much as I think they became extremely boring to play after MoP. This is the first expansion since then that I've sort of been playing my warrior which I mained or co mained from tbc-MoP. They still don't really seem all that fun to me yet though. Decent but not as fun as other melee classes I play more.
Warriors are good at the moment in everything except one respect, let me explain:
Currently my arms warrior is over 20% haste and 20% crit with their stupid mastery scaling making the number not even recognizable anymore. So the rage generation of white swings coupled with tactician procs and the slam azerite trait, turning slam from a filler into a hard hitting rage generator (because during that 2.5 second window between the last gcd starting and the slam one ending you will get a white swing, thereby making it a generator even if the move itself isnt) along with whatever other talent you have filling in. Bladestorm, warbreaker and the "strength per rage used after warbreaker" trait are all good. Basically warriors are doing solidly through the early stages of the fight, and arent really rage starved too often unless you really start blowing some filler abilities.
However, the one thing thats holding them back right now? Execute. My god is it weak. Most likely has one of the worst rage/damage returns and even if it doesnt, it eats up a ton of rage to not do damage worthy of calling it an "Execute." More like "annoying scratch." Traditionally warriors are the class to bring for execute phase heavy fights. That's one area of the "class fantasy" thats totally fucked up now, and all the warriors feel bad about it.
TL;DR- mechanically they're not awful, and properly geared they play very smoothly but the execute phase just doesnt feel right anymore.
Warriors were absolute crazy in parts of Legion. Both in M+ (some teams even used two arms warriors at times) and raids. Rogues have some silly utility that lets them stay very competative but there have been many cases were locks did not do as well as warriors.
It seems that people "feel" that their own class is weak compared to others. Grass is always greener and all that stuff but that does not mean it's actually true. Method used two warriors on their latest Jaina kill and Limit used just as many warriors as warlocks and so on.
Warriors are fine.
"Dominant tank from classic through BC"
correct
Dominant PvP DPS in Arms through LK and strong for PvE through MoP
false! arms was great in pvp for classic and TBC but when wrath came around it was total trash!season 5+ says hello. arms/warriors were so broken and bad that any warrior that did not reroll dk or pally swtich from arms to fury for pvp lol it was that bad. blizz did massive class/spec changes to warriors/arm during the x-pac something they claim they do not do unless its a must. they added things like juggernaut UA and a few other things just to bring arms in line with others but arms still needed to be baby sat, pallys and dks were much better then warriors in wrath.
warriors tanks were also left behind during wrath as both dks and pallys were better maybe even druids and as for pve dps it was bad for both arms and fury until buffs came in.
Like I said, I don't often play arms.
You are flat out wrong though on the leaving behind of warrior tanks and the requirement of buffs.
Fury warriors had to be nerfed at Naxx - they did a 23 fury warriors, prot paladin and druid healer Sarth 3D. Each fury warrior had a Betrayer of Humanity - the first weapon to break 1K on upper end damage per swing.
They also went through multiple tunings of Titan's Grip, warriors still gained 1 attack power from agility which made the best armor in ICC for fury warriors the Ikfirus' sack of wonders since it had high armor penetration and crit and you could gem more armor penetration. (It was also the best in slot chest item for ret paladins.)
Oh and because of Armor Penetration for those doing TotGC physical dps were already starting to exceed 100% armor pen.
This isn't to say that divine storm span ret paladins weren't pulling ahead but frankly we all knew that ret paladins would be pushing high simply because of the expansion - not to mention auto-crits on exorcism.
all of the Cata good/mediocre comments forget how ridiculously good DS Arms was.
We are definitely in a good place at the moment. Both tank and DPS warriors were used on world first Jaina, so we can't be too bad!
I remember being the only tank in TBC, in Wrath we were good but DK's were FOTM and come ICC the massive healthpool on Druid was great. Block just didn't scale all that well when boss melees hit you like a truck and it was impossible to cycle cooldowns like you can today. I think the first fight we couldn't really tank was Sarth 3d when doing it before the zerg tactic. We didn't have enough cooldowns to survive the buffed breaths.
I have mostly played prot and have thought for most of the time we have been 'acceptable', the only time I had difficulty getting groups as a tank because of my class was trying to run high M+ in legion- we just weren't as good as invincible DK's.
never seemed like warriors recovered from the ignore pain nerfs.
Compare them to blood dk/ guardian druid past few expansions they are generally trash
Ohh your that guy from twitter.
but yeah, i am 396 with a few 10s and 90's under my belt in both seasons.
spent 5 hours looking couldnt join a single 10, just gave up an started doing some dungeons i had yet to do to get my score up, then next day set up a group with my guild.
Warriors were great in most of MoP, prot was good in WoD, arms was amazing in HFC, Prot and arms were amazing in EN, Arms and fury were great in ToV, Fury was great and arms was good in NH, arms was busted as fuck in ToS, fury and prot were great and arms was good in Antorus, arms was busted as fuck in Uldir and fury was good.
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Well aside from HFC-Uldir, but sure.
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Fury hasn't scaled any different than arms since MoP. Learn your shit.
And these arbitrary stat numbers mean nothing. Don't spread misinformation and bullshit.
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Warriors haven't scaled well since ~MoP. Turns out not playing means you have no fucking idea how the specs actually work anymore.
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Arms was a meta, top 1-4 spec in HFC, EN, ToV, ToS, and Uldir. So you're full of shit.
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Locks have been a meta class, anywhere from 2 to all three of their specs, since Throne of Thunder. Every. Single. Raid.
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Arcane wasn't broken, it was broken+1. Arms has certainly been broken, as has prot and even fury.
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Warriors. Do not. Scale any better. Than any other class. You stuck-in-Wrath-fuck.
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Prot was the best tank in EN, and top 3 in Antorus, and is currently best/second best tank depending on the content. Druid is the worst tank for all content right now.
Pfftttt Warriors in Vanilla, BC, LK were OP. Always the most gear dependent but scaled the best
warriors were op in vanilla.. all specs were good and obviously prot was the only tank
in tbc warriors were again amazing, the best tanks still for the most part and arms was op in pvp for the majority of TBC
in wrath warriors were still good tanks, but obviously werent the outright the best anymore, in pvp they were really good and were really good as dps in all specs in pve
in cata warriors were insane at the beginning in both pve and pvp then they got nerfed and were mediocre in pvp, but really good in pve especially arms in DS
in MoP warriors were really throughout entire expansion in PvP(and were broken at the start) and were rather fine in pve
in WoD warriors were really good in pvp throughout expansion and were good in pve
so i dont know what you talking about, mate
Isn't that all Legion and BFA? So that literally has nothing to do with my post, since I was talking about expansions before Cata. Hm. Learn to read issue maybe.Arms was a meta, top 1-4 spec in HFC, EN, ToV, ToS, and Uldir. So you're full of shit.
Also, top 1-4? That's ambiguous and not #1. So no, not full of shit whatsoever. Everything else I said is literally a fact. Also, Arms was abusing Drought of Souls, but yeah, sure, top spec lol. Good in Uldir, complete trash in Dazar, hmm, something not right with that picture, so yeah that's really obviously reaching and grasping at straws there bud.
I shouldn't even be responding to someone who fishes and quotes the entire thread for posts to disagree with and cusses people out for no reason, it never ends well!
Last edited by msdos; 2019-02-17 at 01:17 PM.
Your post never made direct indication to a specific timeframe at all. You made references to overpowered, poorly designed, or broken abilities arms had in the early stages of the game, and then tried to state that said "tuned out of control" periods are the cause for arms being bad now. Or rather, you said warriors in general, but it was pointedly towards arms.
Not only does that logic not even begin to follow, it doesn't have anything at all to do with design or balancing. Arms has clearly proven in the past half a decade that when tuning allows, it can be a top tier spec. There's no "Arms warrior never bad, but never good" bullshit. Because arms has been bad in the past. It's been even worse than it is right now.
DoS? That was in one raid. And then it got a 40% nerf. And arms was top tier meta in the raids before, and the raid immediately after. Had literally nothing to do with the trinket.
It's not ambiguous at all. It depends on the exact percentile you look at, and the boss in the raid. An overall perspective can be skewed by one boss with excessive bullshit, so taking it at face value is not the best idea. If you look across all bosses, and a spec is consistently in the top 5 or so slots, across several percentiles (90, 95, 99) then it's obviously just straight up extremely strong in that raid.