BfA zones feels disjointed and empty due to lack of lore and design

[Pakheth]

The formula its bad and good at the same moment. Good because its requires you to look up for the Lore or ask friends or people about certains events "adding the rpg element" now this was heavily pushed on Legion with the class hall order quests, depending on wich chracter were you on and a little bit of the faction.
One good example its the rogue questline, where you discover that actually the fall of brokenshore and the murdering of Varyan and Voljin was th fault of the "best spymaster Shawn" getting caught by the Legion and sending the report that there wasnt a big contingent of Demon on the broken shore.

But for people to know about that... you needed to play as a Rogue, or the interactions between Death knights and paladins and the internal war between those order halls or the Priest one with also leads to undestanding more about the Naaru, etc etc.

Now this formula its good? 50/50, its working on BfA? while BfA its divided on the "faction" specifics, no. It will work beyond this xpa uncertantly it all depends on how they manage the "faction problem".

At the end of the days being in a faction limits you on knowing more of what its happening, therefore we cn add that blizzard did a poor job on making the "war between factions" alive. And well BoD didnt help too much.

Yes, I love it like they did it in Legion. Each class order hall offers lots of exciting story around things you already are aware of but might not know the details to. You don't need to know those details, but it makes everything very interesting and deep.
However in BfA it is not easy to learn about Kul Tiras as a Horde player unless you find external sources or play as Alliance. Just a simple recap for what is going on in each zone would have been wonderful to understand the overhanging narrative, we don't need all the details just to know what is going on, but sadly we didn't get that.

[Destinas]

The Alliance isn't given as much of an explanation to be in Uldir as the Horde is, since the Horde has the entirety of Nazmir to set up G'huun as the bad guy. However, the Alliance campaign in Nazmir to set up their base/FP there explains what the problem is there well enough. They meet a captain who was sent to meet with the Blood Trolls, but got corrupted by the power of G'huun. We see Hir'eek laying there, dead, and we have to escape from a tunnel full of Blood Trolls screaming "for the Blood God!" while chasing us. It's not the full story of the zone, but the Alliance gets the gist of it.

Likewise, the Alliance is given a quicker version of what happened in Vol'dun. They meet with the Sethrak, and are allowed to use the flight path at their temple. We help their leader by getting a key that he needs (which he hid on an Alliance soldier), and we are told a quick version of the story about Mythrax and the Sethrak leaders.

But, I would agree that the Horde isn't given as much of an explanation of what's going on in Kul Tiras. They aren't told the extent of Stormsong's corruption within the ranks of the Tidesages, until they have to go to the dungeon. They are told that there are witches in Drustvar, but not why there are witches. Tiragarde mostly deals with setting up a base with pirates, and then bombing Kul Tiran towns - not much about Ashvane working with pirates, or who Ashvane even is.

Obviously, this expansion is dependent on the player experiencing the story from both sides. Great for people like me, who play both sides pretty equally. Terrible for people who only play one side due to raiding, pvp, RP, etc.

[Fabinas]

Okay we all know the lore is kinda bonkers this expaq, but for me a bigger problem is that the horde/alliance zone narratives feel so disjointed from each other.

As a Horde player I have absolutely no idea what is going on over on the other three isles and when I get there to do quests or whatever it feels like I am playing a completely different game. A game where I was not told the story, not told who is the bad guys or wtf is going on.
The enemies in Drustvar look cool but I have no idea why they attack me. All I know is that there are witches and that Eitrigg are scared of them.
That is what I was told during the introduction quest, and that's it.

Since I as a Horde player never got the quest narrative that explains the zone and its lore I have missed out on fundamentally understanding the zone and why it is there. And to me that makes the Kul Tiran isles feel alien and disjointed, just a pretty backdrop with no context. And I bet the Alliance feel the same about the Zandalarian isles too.
Heck just look at Uldir. As an Alliance player you have absolutely no idea what is going on when you go in there or even WHY you go in there in the first place.

I don't mind faction exclusive story, we've had that since Vanilla, though less in the later years. But to the extent that has been done in BfA just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I have no interest in levling up an alliance character, but I would very much like to understand what is going on zone wise, like I have been able to in almost every other expaq, apart from the starting zones in WoD which I also feel the same about and thankfully that was just 2 zones and not 6.

Of course I could read up on the Alliance zones on wowpedia, but to me that is just really poor storytelling, storytelling which Blizz most of the time excels at, but that they decided to ditch this time around for some reason.

It also doesn't help that most of the overarching narrative of the expaq takes place NOT in the new zones, which makes them feel like we are just wasting our time there. What was the point of coming here if the main story barely includes them?
I understand that Blizzard wants the story to include the old world, but it must be possible to do so without ignoring one side(aka the new stuff) completely?

It also doesn't help that the Alliance and Horde isles are not on the same map, which makes me as a player even more reluctant to actually travel to one side or the other. Had it been on the same map it could have been a fun experience just hopping on my Water Strider or my raft toy and ride over there, but instead I have to travel to an npc, get teleported over there with absolutely no ingame immersion other than a menu and use the same npc or hearthstone back. Remember the zeppelins or boats going between Kalimdor and Easter Kingdoms? Why didn't they do this? They do use a boat between Echo Isles and Zandalar. It helps make the world feel bigger at least.
It also worked well for Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor because each of there land masses offered so much each. Zandalar and Kul Tiras are tiny continents with tiny zones which only offers half its content to each faction making this expaq feel even smaller than Legion did, and Legion only had 4 zones.

Add a miniscule amount of pointless(sadly) chests already marked on your map and the exploration value of the BfA zones is thrown out the window, making me even less interested in spending time in the zones.

To me all of the above makes the world seem small this expaq, small and pointless. It is beautifully rendered, but I as a player it doesn't feel like I should be in or belong in half of it.


TL;DR
Splitting up the zones into Horde and Ally and not giving narrative for both factions in the zones makes the zones feel disjointed and off.


Thoughts?

They are trying to blow their MAU's by forcing you to play both sides, so you can get "the big picture". Since they kinda did it in Legion with class only content, they figured they'd stretch player time with faction only content. Only that failed, because of faction pride, which is kinda the whole xpac theme. They should have "baited" players with tidbits to make them want to play the other faction. Not just leave you wondering.

[Pakheth]

The Alliance isn't given as much of an explanation to be in Uldir as the Horde is, since the Horde has the entirety of Nazmir to set up G'huun as the bad guy. However, the Alliance campaign in Nazmir to set up their base/FP there explains what the problem is there well enough. They meet a captain who was sent to meet with the Blood Trolls, but got corrupted by the power of G'huun. We see Hir'eek laying there, dead, and we have to escape from a tunnel full of Blood Trolls screaming "for the Blood God!" while chasing us. It's not the full story of the zone, but the Alliance gets the gist of it.

Likewise, the Alliance is given a quicker version of what happened in Vol'dun. They meet with the Sethrak, and are allowed to use the flight path at their temple. We help their leader by getting a key that he needs (which he hid on an Alliance soldier), and we are told a quick version of the story about Mythrax and the Sethrak leaders.

But, I would agree that the Horde isn't given as much of an explanation of what's going on in Kul Tiras. They aren't told the extent of Stormsong's corruption within the ranks of the Tidesages, until they have to go to the dungeon. They are told that there are witches in Drustvar, but not why there are witches. Tiragarde mostly deals with setting up a base with pirates, and then bombing Kul Tiran towns - not much about Ashvane working with pirates, or who Ashvane even is.

Obviously, this expansion is dependent on the player experiencing the story from both sides. Great for people like me, who play both sides pretty equally. Terrible for people who only play one side due to raiding, pvp, RP, etc.

This explains why so many in this thread claims the Alliance side gets a good perspective on the Horde zones and by their logic it should be the same for Horde which it isn't. Thank you for that clarification.

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They are trying to blow their MAU's by forcing you to play both sides, so you can get "the big picture". Since they kinda did it in Legion with class only content, they figured they'd stretch player time with faction only content. Only that failed, because of faction pride, which is kinda the whole xpac theme. They should have "baited" players with tidbits to make them want to play the other faction. Not just leave you wondering.

Yeah, they do it to make us play longer but imo it only makes me want to play less. And they should definitively have "baited" us more, similar with how they did in Legion. Was quite effective if you ask me.
Also pushing the "faction pride" agenda doesn't exactly help on wanting to try the opposite faction.

[Hyral]

Huh? Everyone liked the zones and the storylines in them on release, but now I guess in the effort to look for more things to hate they are "empty" and "disjointed". BfA Derangement Syndrome is too real.

They are not disjointed, they are just independent. They have their own storylines that lightly, if at all, affect each other but in the end all three storylines culminate in a larger plot. Disjointed would be if the storylines were not able to lead in to a larger plot or contradicted each other.

For a topical example the stories of the A and B scenarios in REmake 2, now that's disjointed.

[Varodoc]

What do you propose then, OP? How would you justify the Horde fighting against Lady Ashvane, Gorak Tul, and Azshara to save Kul Tiras from annihilation? How would such a storyline make sense?

[Sansnom]

I have no interest in playing Alliance. The races don't interest me.

Mystery is fine, but when the only reason I step into a zone is to do random WQ with no narrative other than "kill 10 boars and you get loot" it just feels hollow to me.
Blizzard has managed to juggle two factions in the same zone since the start so I don't understand why they couldn't continue with this.

That is your choice. Personally, I like the splitting of the zones and hope they continue this in the future. Maybe a mix of both.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

The zones I actually liked more than I did the Broken Isles, where every zone felt like some brand new cliche slapped in my face. Both Kul'tiras and Zandalar feel like they started with a central idea and then built the differences out from there.

If I did have a complaint, it's that even though they feel like they belong together, they still feel like each zone has a giant metaphorical wall built around it because of the whole "go back to your mission table to choose your next zone" quest structure Blizz has started doing instead of organically moving between zones.

[Destinas]

This explains why so many in this thread claims the Alliance side gets a good perspective on the Horde zones and by their logic it should be the same for Horde which it isn't. Thank you for that clarification.

Quite welcome!

To add to that, I remembered the Horde's perspective in Stormsong. They set up their base by attacking and killing Tidesages that have allied with the Alliance. They don't even get to fight the corrupted Tidesages. On top of that, the only other introduction to that storyline they have is through Zelling, where they learn more about him than his order.

[Pakheth]

What do you propose then, OP? How would you justify the Horde fighting against Lady Ashvane, Gorak Tul, and Azshara to save Kul Tiras from annihilation? How would such a storyline make sense?

Honestly something as simple as a small summary of what is going on in each zone told to you as part of a spy/scout report. Then you as a player use that info to either fight a common enemy(ie the Witches in Drustvar as no one would be able to do shit with them around) or use the info to undermine the opposite faction in WQ's in a greater way than is done so far.
Or as I mentioned in an earlier comment, let opposite factions experience some of the lore scenarios via a similar system to the Landfall event in MoP with Dagger in the Dark and the Snow Troll conspiracy.

All I want is to know what is going on in the zones and considering each faction has outposts you would believe any scouts or spies would be able to fill you in on why for example the possessed wildlife in Drustvar is trying to maim my face a bit more than in other zones.

I would say the current story wouldn't work having both factions face those threats because it was written that way originally so it can't be changed at this point but I know It is fully possible to have one zone share both factions but still have different stories, just look at Krazarang, Howling Fjord and Twilight Highlands.

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If I did have a complaint, it's that even though they feel like they belong together, they still feel like each zone has a giant metaphorical wall built around it because of the whole "go back to your mission table to choose your next zone" quest structure Blizz has started doing instead of organically moving between zones.

Yeah I am not a big fan of the non-flow zones that Legion brought to the table. Having quests going across zones always made for bigger reasons for exploration even if it sometimes was a pain in the @$$ to travel across the entire world.

[Thorbalt]

Honestly something as simple as a small summary of what is going on in each zone told to you as part of a spy/scout report. Then you as a player use that info to either fight a common enemy(ie the Witches in Drustvar as no one would be able to do shit with them around) or use the info to undermine the opposite faction in WQ's in a greater way than is done so far.
Or as I mentioned in an earlier comment, let opposite factions experience some of the lore scenarios via a similar system to the Landfall event in MoP with Dagger in the Dark and the Snow Troll conspiracy.

All I want is to know what is going on in the zones and considering each faction has outposts you would believe any scouts or spies would be able to fill you in on why for example the possessed wildlife in Drustvar is trying to maim my face a bit more than in other zones.

I would say the current story wouldn't work having both factions face those threats because it was written that way originally so it can't be changed at this point but I know It is fully possible to have one zone share both factions but still have different stories, just look at Krazarang, Howling Fjord and Twilight Highlands.

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Yeah I am not a big fan of the non-flow zones that Legion brought to the table. Having quests going across zones always made for bigger reasons for exploration even if it sometimes was a pain in the @$$ to travel across the entire world.

look...i got rec use out here so i can smoke some good shit, but whatever you are smoking hand it over if its good enough to make you think that legion had non flow zones...they basically perfected them in legion. every quest would keep leading a bit more into the zone and while the main quest had its own path the side quests were never too far off and easy to work in. if you want terrible, non flow questing zones that would be classic and bc for that kind of garbage. there is a reason they are no longer designed like that

[Demithio]

The sad part of this is that blizzard really doesn't care if bfa feels disjointed or diconnected. Its simply another 'bad' expansion from which they will move on from, come up with some reason as to why, and start selling the next one (which 'fans' will most likely gobble down). Its an assembly line, conveyor belt process at this point. More akin to a manufacturing plant process than deep and well thought out development.

[Pakheth]

look...i got rec use out here so i can smoke some good shit, but whatever you are smoking hand it over if its good enough to make you think that legion had non flow zones...they basically perfected them in legion. every quest would keep leading a bit more into the zone and while the main quest had its own path the side quests were never too far off and easy to work in. if you want terrible, non flow questing zones that would be classic and bc for that kind of garbage. there is a reason they are no longer designed like that

Non-flow as in flow over into other zones, not as in quest-flow. Read the quote for context. I have nothing against quest-flow in Legion, I really enjoy it in fact. I should probably have used a different term.

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The sad part of this is that blizzard really doesn't care if bfa feels disjointed or diconnected. Its simply another 'bad' expansion from which they will move on from, come up with some reason as to why, and start selling the next one (which 'fans' will most likely gobble down). Its an assembly line, conveyor belt process at this point. More akin to a manufacturing plant process than deep and well thought out development.

It's pretty much every other expansion is a good one at this point, being every other gets more thought and resources put into it. At this point it is almost expected.

[Hipnos14]

You literally get a boost to 110 for buying BFA. Really no excuse for them to make a system like that to cater to lazy people.

I know, and I used it on a Human Monk, but I'm not going to lvl up 10 lvls on a character that I'm not going to use, because I play Horde, is as simple as that, you can keep calling it laziness, but you will miss the whole point.

[Pakheth]

I know, and I used it on a Human Monk, but I'm not going to lvl up 10 lvls on a character that I'm not going to use, because I play Horde, is as simple as that, you can keep calling it laziness, but you will miss the whole point.

I find it silly that in an expansion where faction pride is one of the main themes they want us to play both sides. Make up your mind, Blizzard.

[Zorachus]

Dividing the new zones into two separate Faction continents sucks. Worst idea ever. One big continent like previous expansions just works. And one shared Faction city.

And don't get me started on the shitastic design of both new cities. Like holy mother fuck they suck, and are outrageously way too big. Why the heck are both Faction cities so freaking large ? Go back to Dalaran size simple city layouts.

[bigbleach]

Agree 100%. Especially as the 2x3 Faction-Exclusive zones have absoluty nothing "factiony" about them. They are just neutral zones. All of them could have easily been played by both factions. You do not learn ANYTHING about the Horde in the 3 Zandalari zones, just like you do not learn anyting about the Alliance in the 3 KT zones - you just help the residents. That's all. None of them have anything to do with the faction war. The faction war seems like an added afterthought. One of the consequences is the Alliance lacking ANY lore motivation to go into the first raid, for example. Which is a new low in 15 years of WoW. It's just a shitty design.

If they want to make faction-specific content - fine. But then go all the way and actually create motivating, connected, satisfying content for BOTH factions...not stop mid-way and just deny the factions access to zones with no lore reason to do so.

The reason obviously was to force you into playing at least 2 characters to experience the entire story, and therefore strech out the content as you would need to gear up and grind rep twice. But guess what? Most players do not enjoy grinding the exact same shit worldquests twice just to see the story. It sucks.

BFA could have been a far better expansion without the faction conflict. And no, this is not sarcasm. The faction conflict is only central to the intro-cinematics...it is absolutely not central to the 6 zones, 2 cities, first raid tier. It does get spotlieght in the second raid tier (not in a good way, imho) and will then not play a role again until at least 8.3. The faction conflict is really just a minor side-story. Most of the plot that comes out of it is "Horde only", just like it was in MOP. The expansion wuld have been better if they had used the cinematics to better portrait Kul Tiras, Zandalar and Ghuun.

Just my oppinion, of course.

As the expac kicks off... Sylvanas literally says we have to find allies... the zandalar zones and the KT zones are about us gaining support from naval factions... its not meant to be about the yet. The war campaign covers that.

[Arvei]

I agree with all of that. Also find it extremely weird and wrong how it's easier (due to teleporting instantly) to get around the enemy faction's continent than your own.

BFA zones are also littered with pretty bad area design. Every mob camp feels like an over cramped mosh pit where moving 5 feet in any direction means you're pulling half a dozen mobs. This isn't counting Blizzard's overzealous use of high-hp neutral mobs that tend to patrol everywhere that are extremely easy to accidentally aggro through cleave and aoe.

[Th3Scourge]

That's exactly how I felt going from 110-120. The zones lack character and personality. There's nothing to really feel invested in. The zone look great, but don't really feel great, and personally I prefer the old art designs anyway

The zone layout is also quite bad, with too many hills and mob density is way too high in some areas. Faction hubs in zones don't really feel like a garrison or station either. Compare this to something like Howling Fjord in Northrend or Hellfire Peninsula in Outland where the factions have a presence there and allow the player to feel invested in what they are doing.

[Soon-TM]

Dividing the new zones into two separate Faction continents sucks. Worst idea ever.

And don't get me started on the shitastic design of both new cities. Like holy mother fuck they suck, and are outrageously way too big. Why the heck are both Faction cities so freaking large ? Go back to Dalaran size simple city layouts.

Tbh I always thought that cities in WoW are waaaaay too small for what they are supposed to be; only SW and Org feel barely the right size. Gadgetzan, for example, is supposed to be a thriving neutral trade city, but in-game you don't see but four or five goblin huts... like WTF? I loved Hearthstone's depiction of Gadgetzan. Shattrath and Dal -especially the latter- made me claustrophobic, lol.