When is enough enough?

[smityx]

When video game developer does not develop video games bad things happen.

Blizzard is effectively having 3.5 games now - WoW, Overwatch, Hearthstone and HoTS (0.5 with all the shit they did) and all of them have gone stale. No upcoming new games of note, no real news about old franchises like Diablo or Starcraft.

I know that Mike Morhaime is the patron saint here nowadays, but he has really failed Blizzard these couple last years - whatever happened to Starcraft and Diablo is his responsibility, as well as lack of any new games and IP in the roadmap.

If you own a phone and like P2W type games and you're a whale you're gaming future is looking bright and exciting.

[Lillemus]

When video game developer does not develop video games bad things happen.

Blizzard is effectively having 3.5 games now - WoW, Overwatch, Hearthstone and HoTS (0.5 with all the shit they did) and all of them have gone stale. No upcoming new games of note, no real news about old franchises like Diablo or Starcraft.

I know that Mike Morhaime is the patron saint here nowadays, but he has really failed Blizzard these couple last years - whatever happened to Starcraft and Diablo is his responsibility, as well as lack of any new games and IP in the roadmap.

Although I agree with the fundamentals of what you're saying, I think it's only in the last year or so we have seen at least some back lash over Publishers not being original or supporting IPs. EA is probably the easiest example of this, they were churning out low risk / high reward games for ages with their stock price going up all along, I'm mainly talking about Fifa and CoD here. So (sadly) until recently video game developers were doing just fine not developing video games.
Edit: My point being that the majority of larger publishers are unable to take risks (Developing new IPs) because their shareholders (owners) are not OK with taking risks, they want to see a quick return on their investment.

[Nheme]

Common thing in company culture is that it starts with the developers making a successful product which is has the spec and features the customers are looking for and in the need for. The sales will be increasingly up to a point of market saturation. As this point is reached, where you will see declining sales because of saturation, the culture often shifts from the developers being the drivers of the company (who knows the technical stuff and what actually makes a good/bad software), to the sales-department being the drivers of the company. This is when a company starts changing the spec towards what the sales-department THINKS the customers wants instead of listening to the development department who really knows this inside-out. When a company has reached this point they're starting cutting down on their workforce, usually from the development department because now they're listening to the sales department which are saying "just add this and that, it's simple, we don't need all those guys".

I fear the company has started listening to their "sales"-department instead of the gamers who were making the games they wanted to play.

[Wyrt]

They're a company. What is wrong with boosting profits? If employing more people leads to smaller profits, then you are doing it wrong as a company. It means the people they are letting go aren't generating profits for the company so they are dragging them down.

I hope the first people being fired are all the people related to any SJW stuff. Imagine someone working for the company just for getting paid to advise the company on how many gay characters a game needs to have to be ok. Yeah, throw those people over board.

Because pushing profit for Activision-Blizzard means pushing more microtransaction bullshit.

[Wyrt]

If that's what they have to do to make more money, then that's what they have to do. You don't have to buy them, so everybody wins.

Decreasing game quality in pursuit of whales affects everyone regardless of if they participate in microtransactions or not.

[Thelxi]

I think it is a sad situation. They made numerous unfortunate cash grabbing decisions starting at the end of Cata imo. The annual pass for example might have boosted their numbers and bought them a few more years of prosperity, but in one fel swoop they sacrificed D3 and potentially the entire diablo franchise by releasing it in such an uncharacteristically unfinished state not to mention the brazen greedy experimentation they also tacked onto it with the RMAH. It also set a precedent of greed that was quite the omen of how low Blizzard would be willing to go going forward with WoW. In the same vein, desperately pushing LFR as a Cata feature instead of the planned MoP feature it was, was also quite the omen of what was to come: opening up raiding and weekly treadmills to a much larger chunk of the playerbase and subscribers of WoW.

Then MoP rolled around and they subtly began to experiment with moving away from deterministic rewards towards more RNG. They started messing with the winning formula that was justice/valor points, they moved vendors to remote locations on the map, and ultimately introduced warforging to the game. Seeing the popularity of LFR they also decided to squeeze in yet another tier of raiding with flex/normal, casting yet another even wider net to get even more people hooked on "raiding" and the weekly lockout reward treadmills that come with it. On top of that they experimented with scenarios, now evolved into island expeditions, because wouldn't such a format be nice and cheap compared to dungeons.

Then WoD came around and really built on the experimentations of MoP. They also introduced yet another cheap to design for and near horizontal reward structure with garrisons and of course the infamous mission table. They put a lot of eggs in this basket, and people including the sheep began being a bit unhappy being told how to enjoy the game. I will defend Blizzard and WoD here though, they were still very subtle with their shift in business model, and most people were completely happy and unaware with the game. Most people will probably point to garrisons and the twitter patch as the lowest point of the expansion. The core of the game was still intact.

That all changed with Legion. In typical corporate Blizzard fashion they stepped up everything from zone design to art to class design, but at the same time infused the game with greed so extreme that even cynics like myself did not see coming. One for you, two for me is at the core of Blizzard's basic propaganda and interaction with consumers, just throwing it out there to perhaps enlighten that one person that bothered to read this far down; it provides the sheep with all the argument they need to counter the bad. Anyway, Legion was the expansion where Blizzard became reckless with greed. They decided that it was time to completely calculate and lay out player progression, and they did this through what looks to us like extreme RNG, but on their end is actually extremely meticulously calculated timesinks that in a very sound statistical way predict player progression over time. Through this RNG they managed to stretch out content like never before, always having a carrot on a stick for people to chase. Long gone were the days of BiS gear; even the most bleeding edge raider was enticed to keep going at it to get their bracers titanforged with a socket. The most unfortunate consequence of the complete overhaul of all reward structures in WoW was the sacrifice of PvP reward structures, which could not possibly remain gated behind honor and conquest points and vendors, which of course they sold to us as a positive by saying that finally high ratings will correlate with better gear, which again provides sheep with all the argument they need. I could go on about Legion and how it destroyed the core of the game and siphoned all decency out of it, but I don't want to write a book here.

BfA was the biggest mistake they made imo. Legion's deceptively high production values successfully masked the greedy undercurrents for most people, but perhaps subconsciously people realized that significant change had occurred and perhaps became a bit weary of what is to come. BfA built on what Legion did in similar fashion to how WoD built on what MoP did, but with one big difference: BfA did not have anywhere near the production values of Legion, and I think most of us including Blizzard are now seeing that extreme RNG and extremely rigid near horizontal progression does not hold its own without all the whistles and bells to distract from it. To make matters worse, and what might not seem like a big deal to you now, is warfronts, where Blizzard has the audacity to experiment with a reward structure that is not just a weekly treadmill, but pretty much a monthly treadmill. It might not seem like a big deal to you now, but be warned of what might be to come.

It is a sad situation, because WoW was the fuel that allowed Blizzard to grow into the corporate giant they are today. And for all the greed and milking they are guilty of, there is still a desire to make good and fun games. I see that with Overwatch, where Blizzard has been extremely timid when it comes to greed. They could have easily grabbed some low hanging fruit there, but instead they restricted their business model to be very fair and noninvasive. They also show a great passion and care for balancing the game, something that Blizzard is simply the best at imo despite all the complaining. I really think that Blizzard hoped to just milk WoW dry and put all their eggs in the OW basket, and have OW be their new flagship game of high standards and quality, with cool branding and maybe like animated movies to accompany it etc. This is a sad situation, because this did not happen. Titan was a big waste of resources that OW did not manage to salvage, HotS was an abject failure and a stain on Blizzard's resume, and to make matters worse a simple cheap tablet game (HS) turned out to be one of their most profitable post-WoW games.

It's sad because I would have liked to see Blizzard remain on top of their game, transition us from WoW into yet another great MMO without insulting us with their greed and desperation, and keep their company philosophy of high standards and quality alive. It is sad that now they are caught in a web of failure and greed, and I don't know how they can get out of this at this point. It's sad to see the slow and painful collapse of Blizzard.

/endrant

[Gaidax]

Although I agree with the fundamentals of what you're saying, I think it's only in the last year or so we have seen at least some back lash over Publishers not being original or supporting IPs. EA is probably the easiest example of this, they were churning out low risk / high reward games for ages with their stock price going up all along, I'm mainly talking about Fifa and CoD here. So (sadly) until recently video game developers were doing just fine not developing video games.
Edit: My point being that the majority of larger publishers are unable to take risks (Developing new IPs) because their shareholders (owners) are not OK with taking risks, they want to see a quick return on their investment.

I think this is absolutely wrong, taking Blizzard as example - it was given years to make something new and in-between the whole Titan thing which was a huge investment that had to be salvaged and all these attempts at Diablo 4 which bore no fruit - they were given ample opportunities, trust and $$ to make new great games.

And they failed at all of it.

I understand that "big bad investors" are an easy target for blame, but really - it's on Blizzard this time. They had all the time in the world and all the money in the world and what do they have to show for it? "Don't you guys have phones?" and some remaster in 2019? And nobody even knows what in 2020, if anything?

[kamuimac]

With the sad news that hundreds of people will be losing their jobs very soon, i have to ask myself something: When will the diehard fans who blindly white knight all things Blizzard FINALLY accept what many (and i really do mean MANY) have been saying for a while now - Blizzard have lost their way, their trademark high production values are long gone, and they are in serious trouble.

This isnt just wow obviously, but their cash cow is not producing the milk it once was, confidence in the product is down, and i think this is yet another indicator that yes, subs are WELL down, the lowest since vanilla. Something has gone horribly wrong, and i just want to know why we cant just accept it and talk openly about it? How much proof do the defenders need?>

What would it take for some of the games defenders to accept that there is something wrong, and that even if they are enjoying the product, the majority of players have either moved on, or are close to doing so.

Moderation note: While not a fan of top-posting in case anyone is wondering what is being discussed here and hasn't seen the news post about it, please take a look at this article from Bloomberg. {MoanaLisa}

erm never because there is no need to ?

lay offs come for multiple reason - i can give you my own example - last year i fired 6 people who got replaced by machines who automatisize the process and require much less people to operate them thus making profits bigger . its normal that blizzard is getting rid of for example customers support etc with how nice AI can handle some of this stuff already .

you will see that they wont be firing devs only support guys etc

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I think this is absolutely wrong, taking Blizzard as example - it was given years to make something new and in-between the whole Titan thing which was a huge investment that had to be salvaged and all these attempts at Diablo 4 which bore no fruit - they were given ample opportunities, trust and $$ to make new great games.

And they failed at all of it.

I understand that "big bad investors" are an easy target for blame, but really - it's on Blizzard this time. They had all the time in the world and all the money in the world and what do they have to show for it? "Don't you guys have phones?" and some remaster in 2019? And nobody even knows what in 2020, if anything?

the irony is that the sonner they will release DI the sonner they will capitalise on bilions from microtrasactions

all they have to do is release 2-3 good mobile game and they are set.

so why would they invest time in dying market aka pc/console one.

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If you own a phone and like P2W type games and you're a whale you're gaming future is looking bright and exciting.

mate whole 10-18 demographic plays primarily on mobile phones.

they are the future - you and i are dinosaurs that devs dont care about.

and do you know who is to blame for this behaviour ? our own generation where lazy parents instead taking care of kids were giving them tablets and then smartphones to play with

[Chrotesque]

Lootboxes are the worst thing that ever happened to the gaming industry and many, many titles have them (despite the full price). And now let's get back to Blizzard. Who invented that loot box bullshit? Yep, Blizzard did. Not EA. No Activison. Not Bethesda. Not any other company that gamers love to to hate. It was Blizzard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTLFNlu2N_M
Now I'm just posting somebody elses work but to the point, do you have any proof to the contrary to what is being said in the video? TLDR: EA introduced loot boxes.

[kamuimac]

Probably just a few?

the right answer is none .

because company cannot funkcion without CFO , and nobody semi-decent would come without a juicy bonus.

[Gaidax]

the irony is that the sonner they will release DI the sonner they will capitalise on bilions from microtrasactions

all they have to do is release 2-3 good mobile game and they are set.

so why would they invest time in dying market aka pc/console one.

The fact is they did invest and had nothing to show for it.

And yes, mobile is the future, but I am not sure DI is what that future needs.

[Lillemus]

I think this is absolutely wrong, taking Blizzard as example - it was given years to make something new and in-between the whole Titan thing which was a huge investment that had to be salvaged and all these attempts at Diablo 4 which bore no fruit - they were given ample opportunities, trust and $$ to make new great games.

And they failed at all of it.

I understand that "big bad investors" are an easy target for blame, but really - it's on Blizzard this time. They had all the time in the world and all the money in the world and what do they have to show for it? "Don't you guys have phones?" and some remaster in 2019? And nobody even knows what in 2020, if anything?

I think Titan was supposed to be an MMO, but seeing as WoW was (and arguably still is) going strong I'm guessing the decision to scuttle it was also partly financial as cannibalizing your own (successful) market was a bit counterproductive.
You're probably actually right about the whole "big bad investors" not really being at fault here, that may just be my dislike for the overall effect on the gaming industry, but would say that Blizzard has always sort of been like this? They haven't been leading the charge since the late 90s, relying on safe choices all along the way basically. World of Warcraft was taking an MMO genre that was on the rise and making it accessible, Hearthstone took the TGC and polished & simplified it, Overwatch took a stab at the team deathmatch genre and Heroes of the Storm was their MOBA. If Blizzard were to follow their tendencies from the past 2 decades the next game they should release should be a Battle Royale.
For the majority of their run Blizzard has played it safe, so I'm not sure why it would be surprising that they continue that trend now.

[Niwes]

@title: for greedy bastards like them ? never.

[Wyrt]

How are microtransactions decreasing game quality?

Focusing on profits means they're going to focus on what makes them money. Which is increasingly microtransactions, not making quality games. Get the whales and fuck everyone else is modern gaming.

[Trumpcat]

I've accepted it and I don't support it in the way that I don't pay for fluff if I am not happy with the games direction. I pay my WoW sub, but there is a big social element involved in the game for me. BfA is horrendous and if it were for the expansion alone I would not pay anything. In Legion I used to buy an occasional pet or mount or paid services and stuff in other games, not really because I "need" it, but because I felt happy with Blizzard and the games. Now? Starcraft abandoned, HOTS reduced to an irrelevant freeplay, Diablo mobile, Overwatch is nothing but cash grab... I would say I don't buy games either, but they don't sell any, nor they announced any project to look forward to.

With this restructuring I wonder if those hundred(s) people that will get sacked combined make up for the $15 mil the new CFO or whatever his glorified accountant position was is taking? Is the productivity of that single person, who doesn't know or play games, more beneficial to the quality of Blzzard's games and is greater than the work of a hundred designers/devs/programmers/engineers/testers/support?

So yeah, they don't announce maximizing the quality of their games, they sack people to maximize the profit by not paying salaries. I am a very much of a wallet voter and I don't support this shit one bit. I don't pay a cent for EA games either and for many other things outside the gaming industry, especially now with companies trying their political activism and social justice scams to get extra profit.

[Gasparde]

---

My question is how many of those jobs could have been saved if they didn't recently give the new CFO a 15 million dollar sign on bonus. Or have we forgotten they did that already?

Haha, yea, they should just pay their COs 60k/year and see how many reliable people apply for the job. Everyone should just do that.

[TJ]

Blizzard hasn't lost their way ... the game is just 15 years old, people who do anything for 15 years get bored and leave.

BfA is in the top 3 expansions in terms of content, but it is still an expansion to a 15 year old game.

Age is not the main problem with WoW, the state of it the game is the problem, it's a pile of garbage and not WoW anymore. Yes, age is obviously a factor, but I can guarantee that if the game was as good as the Wrath days then there would still be millions of players instead of a ghost town compared to its former self.

Nobody was expecting it to stay at 12 million forever, but for it to lose over 1-2 million players in a quarter, that's NOT age related...

[Lillemus]

Age is not the main problem with WoW, the state of it the game is the problem, it's a pile of garbage and not WoW anymore. Yes, age is obviously a factor, but I can guarantee that if the game was as good as the Wrath days then there would still be millions of players instead of a ghost town compared to its former self.

Nobody was expecting it to stay at 12 million forever, but for it to lose over 1-2 million players in a quarter, that's NOT age related...

Ah yes, Age is not a factor at all, which is obviously why we are seeing all major publishers pumping out MMOs. Say, have you tried the new MMO Apex Legends? Or maybe the MMO Fortnite? The MMO PUBG is getting a bit dated, but it's still pulling ok numbers. Or we could go back a few years when the MMO League of Legends and the MMO Dota 2 were amongst the biggest new releases.

[TJ]

Ah yes, Age is not a factor at all, which is obviously why we are seeing all major publishers pumping out MMOs. Say, have you tried the new MMO Apex Legends? Or maybe the MMO Fortnite? The MMO PUBG is getting a bit dated, but it's still pulling ok numbers. Or we could go back a few years when the MMO League of Legends and the MMO Dota 2 were amongst the biggest new releases.

Can you not read? "Age is not the main problem with WoW" THE MAIN PROBLEM.

"Yes, age is obviously a factor"

I didn't say age is not a factor at all, I said it's not the MAIN factor. Maybe stop foaming at the mouth and read properly next time.

[Naiattavain]

With the sad news that hundreds of people will be losing their jobs very soon, i have to ask myself something: When will the diehard fans who blindly white knight all things Blizzard FINALLY accept what many (and i really do mean MANY) have been saying for a while now - Blizzard have lost their way, their trademark high production values are long gone, and they are in serious trouble.

This isnt just wow obviously, but their cash cow is not producing the milk it once was, confidence in the product is down, and i think this is yet another indicator that yes, subs are WELL down, the lowest since vanilla. Something has gone horribly wrong, and i just want to know why we cant just accept it and talk openly about it? How much proof do the defenders need?>

What would it take for some of the games defenders to accept that there is something wrong, and that even if they are enjoying the product, the majority of players have either moved on, or are close to doing so.

Moderation note: While not a fan of top-posting in case anyone is wondering what is being discussed here and hasn't seen the news post about it, please take a look at this article from Bloomberg. {MoanaLisa}

i don't understand why working for blizzard is so hard. if it works it works. no reason to replace constant on whims. blizzards creativity has always served them well in the passed.