Warfronts should have been PVP

[Bane-Thunder-God]

It's fairly obvious why they are so mundane with only NPC's as enemies.

If we go back to Wintergrasp, Tol Barad, Ashran, these were Warfronts by other names but heavily focused PvP. They were more interesting then these current iterations even though people complained about those warfronts, making it Purely PVE ain't so fun now is it?

[Narzok]

warfronts were an experiment to incorporate pvp elements in a PvE setting.

not so successful, but that is part of trying.
not everything can be great from the start, and instead of abandoning it after a few month, why not keep it for the rest of the expac to try out different things.
this is a thing that made Bfa look worse than most other expacs: a lot of the new stuff they tried flopped at the same time.

reworking them from the ground takes too much effort for the typical workload of a content-patch (without it affecting the rest of the given patch).
this way they can try out different things, like heroic WFs, and save the parts that were good and scrap the rest once they have the resources for an overhaul.

i do agree that the current form is boring and the only reason i run them is the quest.

[Bane-Thunder-God]

i do agree that the current form is boring and the only reason i run them is the quest.

Which is why they were much better as PVP focused events cause you couldn't simply just AFK cause losing meant not reaping the rewards. Tol'Barad was the best for this. I hope we get another Tol'barad in future. You had to earn your spoils.

[Narzok]

Which is why they were much better as PVP focused events cause you couldn't simply just AFK cause losing meant not reaping the rewards. Tol'Barad was the best for this. I hope we get another Tol'barad in future. You had to earn your spoils.

but then it would be a battleground. what you describe in the OP is basically IoC or Alterac with slight changes.

the very idea of Warfronts is to NOT have enemy players and still offer a faction-war theme.
i don't know if something like that can be done and be interesting for a wide range of people at the same time.

the concept is good in itself, it just need improvements.

- reduce the amount of material needed. nobody likes to sit in the mine for 5 minutes to click on carts just so you can progress.

- balance the danger of mobs. random roaming pats should not require a dedicated heal/tank to kill.(or more ilvl than is realistic)
this is in direct contrast to the "swarm out and get stuff" phase. the groups that are marked and base guards should be a bit more dangerous, but not the random grunts on patrol.

-involve more people in the siege. even if it is just hopping in a vehicle and shooting at a wall with guards. way more fun then defending a katapult from random trashmobs.

-different modes for different needs. works with other instanced content, why not here? they said heroic WFs are coming, propably not in from the start since the whole thing is a testdrive.

[Warlockjen]

They could have a pvp version which could be lighter in objectives. The pve version could use better AI.

Agreed. Warfronts are basically pvp with npcs but the npcs aren't very good. Although I believe they talked about making harder versions?

[owbu]

Yes, warfronts should have shipped with a PvP and a group content version, so that all kinds of players can enjoy them.
The only reason I can think of, why that isn't the case is that they tried to do that in earlier builds but couldn't find a way to make the content engaging in time. So they just released the lfr version that doesn't need to be tuned or interesting.

We are getting the group version in 8.2, hopefully we can get a PvP version by 8.3. Which will need some pretty heavy rebalancing and to be put into a new context, because it won't make much sense in the current cycling system (defending you warfront would be bad, because you want the cycle to continue as fast as possible)

[RyudoTFO]

Warfronts are the MoP scenarios of BfA. Fun to play a couple of times, totally negligible after that (besides 1 time per cycle if you need the gear).
The problem with them is, as I think, that they are too simple. I stopped playing Alterac as soon as all the complex stuff was removed. People complained that Alterac took hours to win, but that was exactly why I and people I played it with joined it. You knew that it would take several hours to beat it and if you hadn't the time you rather played Warsong or Ararhi instead. Everything you accomplished felt like a step further to victory. And there was so much you could do. Everybody focused on something else and together it was a huge group accomplishment that led to victory. Not just a huge zerg moving from flag to flag waltzing down wave's of enemies.
If the mechanics where more complex and you would be rewarded for actually playing them, by let's say, giving you an additional piece of gear or titan residuum, making you actually work for your victory, instead of just plowing your way to the end, outpost by outpost, Warfronts would be much more enjoyable.
PVP Warfronts sure also would be interesting, as human enemies will adapt to your tactic and force you to change your strategy. Which would serve the same purpose as more complex game mechanics, rather than "kill all NPC's near flag, tap flag, repeat".

[FelPlague]

It's fairly obvious why they are so mundane with only NPC's as enemies.

If we go back to Wintergrasp, Tol Barad, Ashran, these were Warfronts by other names but heavily focused PvP. They were more interesting then these current iterations even though people complained about those warfronts, making it Purely PVE ain't so fun now is it?

they have stated they may add a pvp version if people like it, as the same they did with adding heroic.
we shall see, if people like warfronts enough sure.
but people seem to love shitting on warfronts, to the point it seems they arnt adding anymore...

[Dark-Zarupia]

but then it would be a battleground. what you describe in the OP is basically IoC or Alterac with slight changes.

the very idea of Warfronts is to NOT have enemy players and still offer a faction-war theme.
i don't know if something like that can be done and be interesting for a wide range of people at the same time.

the concept is good in itself, it just need improvements.

- reduce the amount of material needed. nobody likes to sit in the mine for 5 minutes to click on carts just so you can progress.

- balance the danger of mobs. random roaming pats should not require a dedicated heal/tank to kill.(or more ilvl than is realistic)
this is in direct contrast to the "swarm out and get stuff" phase. the groups that are marked and base guards should be a bit more dangerous, but not the random grunts on patrol.

-involve more people in the siege. even if it is just hopping in a vehicle and shooting at a wall with guards. way more fun then defending a katapult from random trashmobs.

-different modes for different needs. works with other instanced content, why not here? they said heroic WFs are coming, propably not in from the start since the whole thing is a testdrive.

What you are describing sounds even worse and more boring.

Nerf the mobs and mount the vehicles? Are you serious?

It should have been PvP based from the start with maybe some PvE objectives for those who do not wish to fight other players.

[MrExcelion]

I've talked about this in the past, but I don't think the models are compatible, with the RTS-type objectives they're trying to accomplish. Already takes long enough as it is without any interference (the process of gathering and recruiting troops). I do think Warfronts need significant modifications, but I'm not sure PVP works with these elements

I might be wrong on that though as I'm sure a brilliant mind could make it work. Not everybody wants to PVP though

[Devilyaki]

No they should just let pvp die off.

[Djaye]

The most pvp i did over the 8 years i played the game was in Wintergrasp... it wasnt perfect, but it was fun pvp. so very much fun.

it also pushed server unity, as CRZ didnt exist, and i actually liked the timed aspect as you could preform groups and the map allowed for so many different attack and win/lose scenarios.

loss of these two things led to the end of my WoW days.

[Bane-Thunder-God]

No they should just let pvp die off.

Just cause you don't like a part of the game doesn't mean it should be removed. I don't care for most PVE activities but I'm not asking for it to be removed. An MMO without PVP would be dead to me. Never played one an never will.

I started MMO's with The Realm Online and Ultima Online and pvp in those games were brutal, you died you dropped your stuff, loot from your bags lool but it was still fun as hell. WoW in comparison is like a kids play pen so I don't get why you kids are so scared of WoW pvp lool you kids with warmode off lol

[Gurluas]

I have to agree, just imagine if they were something akin to an instanced Wintergrasp, where each side must support the attack waves, collect resouces, etc. and try to defeat the enemy commander.

[yetgdhfgh]

NO

Warfronts is a great idea but it does need working on as i certainly can see how it can be pvp but it also should be PVE with different levels of difficulty.

Warfronts is without doubt the best thing BFA came out with and boy can it be something that can be improved upon.

I fucking love seigeing a ally castle and before Warfronts i would never have had that opportunity,

It certainly can be a pvp thing and it certainly can be a mythic thing where if you fuck up your king/queen dies and you lose and you have to reset.

Warfronts has so much potential its insane.

[lolpve]

No they should just let pvp die off.

The majority of player interest in WoW historicallly has been in pvp. A large reason for why the majority of the playerbase has quit has been the neglect received by pvp.

It would be nice to go back in time pre-activision merger when there were 10mill+ doing arena and less than 5% of the playerbase raided higher than SSC. Blizzard never really grasped that pvp was the big draw in TBC/WotLK.

[telygroar]

warfront pvp would have been altherac 1.0 with days battling to gain/loose a point ^^' korrak the bloodcrazy, invocating world boss in the middle of the lake, battle to have both iron mines... It's fun but take way too much time.

[quite an expert in wow]

No they should just let pvp die off.

i understand that because there are no written guides and videos available that describe every detail, unlike for pve, it is more complicated... but have some respect there are so many players that like pvp

[Narzok]

What you are describing sounds even worse and more boring.

Nerf the mobs and mount the vehicles? Are you serious?

It should have been PvP based from the start with maybe some PvE objectives for those who do not wish to fight other players.

and then it would be another battleground.
they tried to make something that is in its core PvE but gives the feeling of a faction conflict.

i did not say make the mobs easier, i said "balance the danger of mobs"
a hunter or WL can solo a base boss but a group of random grunts on patrol can kill an average-geared DPS.
make the big patrols, the ones marked on the map, more dangerous and keep the trashmobs to a level a sole dps can kill while gathering stuff.

the thing about vehicles was just an example, something to do instead of standing around.
alternatively they could make the NPCs who attack your katapults be an actual threat that need the groups full attention.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

No they should just let pvp die off.

I'm with this guy. The sooner that mini-game is phased out the better the game with be as a whole.