The core difference between Classic and Retail wow

[Ariakan76]

Greetings friends,
I am 42 years old and i play games since i was 7. I joined the wow family during the beta and i played all the expansions till now but in a more casual way. Not because retail became a bad game but mostly because it started to be not likeable to my gaming needs and likes. At my opinion after Wrath the game transformed to a different one. Is it better or worst? I dont know! Surely is not the same.

So, why is that? Let me tell you what i think.
Back in the Day, most players Who liked and played fantasy games, had a heavy RPG background. The majority of us grew up reading fantasy novels, playing Pen and paper and tabletop games. It was the era of dungeon and dragons, warhammer, star wars, call of cthulhu etc etc.
That said, most of the first computer games devs had the same background and they brought that in to the games they created. Those games had more Hard core rpg elements. The games were very close to the Pen and paper rpgs where nothing was offered to the players easily. Exploration and character development was very important aspect of the game. You had to work your way to the glory by choosing the Hard way. Nothing was easy.

The first blizzard developers were all of them rpg freaks(they admited it in many interviews) and they brought that to wow. They created a revolutionary game but it was based to the rpg experiences they had. Most of the first millions of players whp joined the game were also rpg freaks. It was normal back then.

However, wow became trendy, more and more players joined,old developers left and New came, old players got old and left and younger People joined.

After Wrath, a New generation of players created. Players with no rpg experiences or at least in the same level of the old players. Gaming changed in total. The rpg community got smaller and older. Esports and fast paced action games took the lead and all those changes afficted wow too.
Blizzard had and has to deal with a New generation of gamers. They have different needs and preferances. They want everything to earn it fast and not so much theorycrafting but action.
So Blizzard tried to go with the Flow. That forced the old players to leave or at least to become inactive.
The question though is why wow is not successfull to that New generation and loses players Base? Honestly i think the New generation is not so game for mmo games and secondly, wow is created to be an mmorpg game, not Just an mmo.
I think that blizzard must make the game again an mmorpg and bring back the rpg lovers of both generation and stop developing the game for the New generation players. They like different games. Keep wow for the rpg lovers and create other games for the New generation players.

[Powrprincess]

That's a really good explanation of how a market-driven company works. I have to say that many gamers, including me, didn't have the patience to enjoy the game like you did. From my point of view this, combined with the "catering to different markets" broke the game. It's a good thing to be excited about exploring new worlds, but sadly an overdosis of excitement seemed to have overtaken the game

[czarek]

I think that is why they are going to push classic WoW live this year. But im not sure it is good way. Maybe its also some kind of test.

[Ariakan76]

That's a really good explanation of how a market-driven company works. I have to say that many gamers, including me, didn't have the patience to enjoy the game like you did. From my point of view this, combined with the "catering to different markets" broke the game. It's a good thing to be excited about exploring new worlds, but sadly an overdosis of excitement seemed to have overtaken the game

That's a really good explanation of how a market-driven company works. I have to say that many gamers, including me, didn't have the patience to enjoy the game like you did. From my point of view this, combined with the "catering to different markets" broke the game. It's a good thing to be excited about exploring new worlds, but sadly an overdosis of excitement seemed to have overtaken the game

I agree with you my friend. Now listen to what happen back then that many People not know.

When wow became a global phenomenon during vanilla and especialy after the first year, gamers of different backgrounds started to join. The result was because the game was demanding and difficult, the raiding guilds to be not so many in each server leaving many players away of the end game content. Thats the main reason blizzard in tbc reduced the number of players needed to form a raid group to 25 and same timely added the 10 Men raids for first time. Also, they tried to expand the pve content by adding heroic dungeons and daily quests. They wanted People to have easier access to more content and end game so that more players than vanilla to enjoy all the aspects of the game. On the other hand they brought the arenas to satisfy the pvp players Who demanted more content for them and better gear without them to be forced to raid so they can earn the Best weapons and items. The result was not bad. Wow increased sales and subscribers during tbc, more People cleared the end games and more casuals had things to do in game.

From that point imo they started to lose their direction. Instead of keeping a balance between the game elements, they concluded that the increase of their success was because of the increase of the casuals due to the reason i mentioned before. That said, during wotlk they started to develop the policy they still have.... Make the game easier in every aspect, make it as much as possible casual friendly. From that point wow started to be transformed to a different game.

I think in the beginning , blizzard during tbc wanted to do good but when wow at that period became such a success story, activision and maybe blizzard too, analysed wrongly the situation and the results and changed expansion after expansion from an mmorpg to Just an mmo.

[XDurionX]

If you say that the main difference between then and now is the community, you're probably right. If you say they should stop marketing to new players, this is a sure way to kill the game. The game has to evolve to be able to compete, nobody would pay for a vanilla wow nowadays.

[FelPlague]

Greetings friends,
I am 42 years old and i play games since i was 7. I joined the wow family during the beta and i played all the expansions till now but in a more casual way. Not because retail became a bad game but mostly because it started to be not likeable to my gaming needs and likes. At my opinion after Wrath the game transformed to a different one. Is it better or worst? I dont know! Surely is not the same.

So, why is that? Let me tell you what i think.
Back in the Day, most players Who liked and played fantasy games, had a heavy RPG background. The majority of us grew up reading fantasy novels, playing Pen and paper and tabletop games. It was the era of dungeon and dragons, warhammer, star wars, call of cthulhu etc etc.
That said, most of the first computer games devs had the same background and they brought that in to the games they created. Those games had more Hard core rpg elements. The games were very close to the Pen and paper rpgs where nothing was offered to the players easily. Exploration and character development was very important aspect of the game. You had to work your way to the glory by choosing the Hard way. Nothing was easy.

The first blizzard developers were all of them rpg freaks(they admited it in many interviews) and they brought that to wow. They created a revolutionary game but it was based to the rpg experiences they had. Most of the first millions of players whp joined the game were also rpg freaks. It was normal back then.

However, wow became trendy, more and more players joined,old developers left and New came, old players got old and left and younger People joined.

After Wrath, a New generation of players created. Players with no rpg experiences or at least in the same level of the old players. Gaming changed in total. The rpg community got smaller and older. Esports and fast paced action games took the lead and all those changes afficted wow too.
Blizzard had and has to deal with a New generation of gamers. They have different needs and preferances. They want everything to earn it fast and not so much theorycrafting but action.
So Blizzard tried to go with the Flow. That forced the old players to leave or at least to become inactive.
The question though is why wow is not successfull to that New generation and loses players Base? Honestly i think the New generation is not so game for mmo games and secondly, wow is created to be an mmorpg game, not Just an mmo.
I think that blizzard must make the game again an mmorpg and bring back the rpg lovers of both generation and stop developing the game for the New generation players. They like different games. Keep wow for the rpg lovers and create other games for the New generation players.

1. its obvious you play private servers cause you call it retail, you realise classic wow is retail too right? cause its sold? so stop calling modern wow retail,cause they are both retail.

2. they didnt force old players to leave... what are you talking abut?
3. what do you want them to bring back in RPG? really about 90% of this is fluff, you only literally say "the game doesent feel like an RPG anymore, gear is too often"
thats it, that could have been the whole thread...

4. if you want to say something say it, we dont need a super ton of fluff, what do you want them to bring back to make the game more RPG like?

[thrillhoose]

If you say that the main difference between then and now is the community, you're probably right. If you say they should stop marketing to new players, this is a sure way to kill the game. The game has to evolve to be able to compete, nobody would pay for a vanilla wow nowadays.

I suppose we will get proof of this when classic succeeds or tanks

[ArenaDk]

I thinks its unfair to say that the new generations want stuff just fast.

I think its more , that people now days prefer Skill> time spend.

Compare R14 classic to R1 in retail. R1 can be done in a day by a god like player. R14 can be done by a ape alone in theorie aslong as he plays alot.

[XDurionX]

I suppose we will get proof of this when classic succeeds or tanks

We won't, since classic is tied to a normal sub. If you had to pay ectra for classic the numbers would be a lot lower, obviously.

[ArenaDk]

We won't, since classic is tied to a normal sub. If you had to pay ectra for classic the numbers would be a lot lower, obviously.

Dont forget the Rule , if they dont release sub numbers, than classic is offially dying and a bad game.

[quite an expert in wow]

i agree with you, even though i still love wow in it's current state. something that seems a very unpopular opinion nowadays

but yes, back when wow just started there were tons of mmo's and wow was the first rpg that got a larger audience, over the years more (new) people joined with no gaming background at all

these days every child plays fortnite and may pick up wow on the side, they're not really hardcore, demanding gamers like old rpg gamers used to be

[parcus]

Blizzard finished breaking the game starting in cataclysm. The tip of the iceberg was LFR. Underneath you had a broken and unpolished questing experience. At 80-85 there were no group quests, easy. It was heavily phased, there were npcs and players popping into your screen instead of just being there organically. But that was not the worst. 1-80 was a broken mess, you would be unable to follow storyline’s because you’d outlevel the zone; the stories you were able to complete were easy as hell.

the game changed, LFR, LFD and making the game easier was detrimental. But Blizzard also started to focus on monetising the game instead of making it fun. Mounts and pets for sale everywhere, the story get sent to books and whatnots, players were left with scenarios completely out of context with the lore we had in game ( fall of theramore, for example). Polish was nowhere to be seen despite the modern technology. The game is being developed by incompetent people who were not even playing it. I just played that undercity invasion recently and the game breaks immersion all the time with cutscenes to show the awful animations all the time for no reason ( stories would be told in a much more polished way with just text boxes on characters in Vanillas).

[D3athsting]

Vanilla is a mmorpg, retail is a lobby based online multiplayer action game with poor combat systeam and some rpg elements

[crono14]

Vanilla is at it's very core and RPG in every aspect of the game.

Retail hasn't really been what I would call and RPG since maybe early MoP...but quite possibly sooner.

Took me too long to realize this and while I did have fun in MoP mostly because class design was I believe at it's highest point. A lot of classes were simply fun to play. However from BC and back, the world was a living thing you explored and interacted with. This is even more so in Vanilla as we couldn't fly. Almost every aspect of your character was meaningful progression. That is the core difference for me, retail isn't an RPG anymore.

[unbound]

[QUOTE=Ariakan76;50818557]However, wow became trendy, more and more players joined,old developers left and New came, old players got old and left and younger People joined./QUOTE]

Unfortunately, this isn't really accurate. WoW's popularity peaked at the end of BC / beginning of Wrath, and has been in steady overall decline since Wrath as those RPG elements got removed.

In other words, the removal of the RPG elements actually corresponds with a decline in interest in the game. However, that is not necessarily the strongest correlation.

The strongest correlation in the decline of subscriptions matches the steady decline of Blizzard expenditures for WoW. Since shortly after the launch of Wrath, Blizzard has been steadily reducing the amount of funding provided to WoW to maintain / do expansions. You can see this in the old financial statements until about 5 years ago or so when they stopped reporting WoW specific financial information.

[Ariakan76]

1. its obvious you play private servers cause you call it retail, you realise classic wow is retail too right? cause its sold? so stop calling modern wow retail,cause they are both retail.

2. they didnt force old players to leave... what are you talking abut?
3. what do you want them to bring back in RPG? really about 90% of this is fluff, you only literally say "the game doesent feel like an RPG anymore, gear is too often"
thats it, that could have been the whole thread...

4. if you want to say something say it, we dont need a super ton of fluff, what do you want them to bring back to make the game more RPG like?

1. its obvious you play private servers cause you call it retail, you realise classic wow is retail too right? cause its sold? so stop calling modern wow retail,cause they are both retail.

2. they didnt force old players to leave... what are you talking abut?
3. what do you want them to bring back in RPG? really about 90% of this is fluff, you only literally say "the game doesent feel like an RPG anymore, gear is too often"
thats it, that could have been the whole thread...

4. if you want to say something say it, we dont need a super ton of fluff, what do you want them to bring back to make the game more RPG like?

1. I Just use terms that People use so i can be more understandable.

2. The state of the game '' forced'' them to leave or become casual.

3. Resistances, weapon skills, talent trees, harder traveling, quests that forced you to Explore, the difficulty to achieve goals and the rewarding, for me and many others are rpg elements.

4. I am clear, i didnt say that vanilla is better or worst. I Just started the core differences. For me as i said we speak about different games.

[Coombs]

Blizzard learned that it could MTX and Subscription double dip, it was slow at first, then full blown exploitation. They also got away with sub par expansions. I blame all of the new developers on the team. These are the new age hipster game devs who play mobile games and live in the insane bubble of Silicon Valley. Nerds made insanely rich by exploiting video game addicts. Yea. This day and age the drug dealers have been legitimized as the hipsters who suck your money, time, and life away. I'd rather do opium with hot Asian women than play current WoW.

[Ariakan76]

[QUOTE=unbound;50830561]

However, wow became trendy, more and more players joined,old developers left and New came, old players got old and left and younger People joined./QUOTE]

Unfortunately, this isn't really accurate. WoW's popularity peaked at the end of BC / beginning of Wrath, and has been in steady overall decline since Wrath as those RPG elements got removed.

In other words, the removal of the RPG elements actually corresponds with a decline in interest in the game. However, that is not necessarily the strongest correlation.

The strongest correlation in the decline of subscriptions matches the steady decline of Blizzard expenditures for WoW. Since shortly after the launch of Wrath, Blizzard has been steadily reducing the amount of funding provided to WoW to maintain / do expansions. You can see this in the old financial statements until about 5 years ago or so when they stopped reporting WoW specific financial information.

What you said about tbc i allready started the same with you in an answer i gave to a friend above. I agree with what you say. As for the Last part of your answer i really am not sure that bfa for example is a poor game that blizzard didnt spend enough resources on it. Its much richer than vanilla. I think the issue is that the devs and the company got lost on what they want this game to be.

[Ariakan76]

If you say that the main difference between then and now is the community, you're probably right. If you say they should stop marketing to new players, this is a sure way to kill the game. The game has to evolve to be able to compete, nobody would pay for a vanilla wow nowadays.

I agree that the game must evolve. Thats for sure. I Just say dont forget is an mmorpg and not Just an mmo. The ideal would be to combine the great elements of all the expansions. And dont be so sure that People nowdays wont play a game heavily inspired by vanilla.

[kronides]

Blizzard learned that it could MTX and Subscription double dip, it was slow at first, then full blown exploitation. They also got away with sub par expansions. I blame all of the new developers on the team. These are the new age hipster game devs who play mobile games and live in the insane bubble of Silicon Valley. Nerds made insanely rich by exploiting video game addicts. Yea. This day and age the drug dealers have been legitimized as the hipsters who suck your money, time, and life away. I'd rather do opium with hot Asian women than play current WoW.

It's not exploitation, because you have a choice. And WoW has a ton of devs who have been there the entire time or since TBC.