Tinker's spec speculation. What's yours?

[AngerFork]

Of course. I don't think Blizz couldn't make it work if they wanted. But I get the feeling that they'd rather pick up something more... magical. Dunno.

Perhaps. It's not like there aren't other magical choices to choose from, such as Necromancer. I guess where I see the difference here and why I think Tinker works as a good fit is that we really don't have any sort of class that works with it's attack type.For the most part, each of the new classes introduced haven't really played that much with the other ability types in game. DK uses Death Magic, which really isn't used elsewhere. Monks use Chi, also not in use elsewhere. DHs use Fel which is also used by Warlocks, but in a vastly different way (Warlocks wield it whereas DHs allow it to encompass them fully, similar to the Priest/Paladin distinction). No current Player Class uses technology except as a portion of the Engineer profession really at this point. In that way, Tinkers add something we don't yet have.

[Triceron]

But a druid is a magical being. Just say he draws strength from the magic in his gear, and be done with it.

Which makes about as much sense as a Tinker becoming smarter when he holds a Rifle +5, then losing those smarts when he unequips it. The logic applies to all gear in the game, and isn't exclusive to the Tinker. We don't really suspend our disbelief any differently when a Hunter equipped a better staff back in Vanilla, even when the only melee they ever did was Wingclipping.

It will work because it's how the game works and people are already familiar with it. Tinker being 'more like a profession' never got in the way of them being a playable Hero in WC3. Neither did being an April Fools character.

[Izalla]

I don't know, I remember needing to use a TON of ammo as a hunter.

And the reason everyone keeps bringing it up is it shows a precedent. You say "for the most part" but that's 5 classes that used outside means for their class.

And you act like healing potions can't be dirt cheap.

Exactly. It's like saying hunters rely too heavily on whoever makes their ammo (player or vendor), when it is just the projectile they shoot. And it's already how a hunter works, and would be no different for a tinker firing health injections.

[Skulltaker]

Because every Engineer isn't a Tinker. A Tinker as defined by the Warcraft hero is an engineering genius ala Mekkatorque, Blackfuse, and/or Thermaplugg. Again just like in Iron Man when Obidiah Stane asked why his engineers couldn't reproduce the Arc Reactor when Tony Stark did it inside a cave which a bunch of scraps, they meekly responded that they couldn't do it because they're not on the same level of engineering genius as Tony Stark.

A Tauren taking up engineering isn't going to be on the same level as Mekkatorque or Helix Blackfuse. Just like a Warrior taking up Enchanting will never be on the level of a Khadgar or Jaina.



Yep it's just you. Hunters can't pilot mech suits into battle for example, and for many that's a huge selling point for a Tinker class.

Actually, there is no definition of a tinker as a hero whatsoever. They are simply deescribed as specialized, mostly gnomish and goblin, engineers. They build Shredders, guns, shrink-rays, and so on, some of their inventions are dangerous, and they supply their factions with engineering marvels as airships, zepplins, guns, explosives and so on. And all of that is already in-game, represented kinldy by the Engineering profession. Them being special is nothing but your headcanon. If you can find a piece of lore that supports your notion that a Tinker is anything else but a fancy word for engineer, please, provide that.

Player characters are somewhat stronger than the average representative of their class, but in no way as strong as the 'heroes', like Jaina, Shaman Thrall, Malfurion, Garrosh or Anduin.

[Ielenia]

Hunters used their arrows/bullets (some laced with various poisons) seldomly?

Giving an average attack speed of 2.5, that means every two and a half seconds you used one arrow/bullet. 200 arrow/bullets for 10 silver. That means, for ten silver, with auto-attacks and ability usage, you could remain in a fight for roughly 200 seconds. That's over three minutes of non-stop fighting. Arrows and bullets were beyond "dirty cheap" and were sold in large bulks. Potions are not "dirty cheap".

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Why wouldn't any class be self sufficient? Even Hunters forgoed having to buy Ammo at some point for the purpose of making the game easier to manage. I don't see why they would arbitrarily make a Tinker class buy or create their ammo. They just have unlimited at their disposal.

Arrows and bullets were dirty cheap and were sold in large bulks. Potions are neither.

[yetgdhfgh]

1. Tank - Pretty much use a shield like device and to create barriers.
2. Heal - Hand out bandages and serums to heal wounds.
3. Melee - Create all sorts of stabbing weapon attacks
4. Range - Missles and lasers.

It could definitely be a 4 spec class similar to Druid.

[Ielenia]

Tell yourself what you need to kiddo to convince yourself that you're not wrong. But regardless of that self-delusion, you are wrong. Very, very wrong.

I'm wrong that the """"healer"""" Skaggit only has one healing ability out of seven?

(And good job at only looking at one of the healer tinkers in the game.)

I've looked at the example offered. If there are more, feel free to point at them, mr "oh-so-holier-than-thou".

[DotEleven]

Exactly. It's like saying hunters rely too heavily on whoever makes their ammo (player or vendor), when it is just the projectile they shoot. And it's already how a hunter works, and would be no different for a tinker firing health injections.

Yep, it's also not like one potion needs to = 1 heal. What if the tech they have is able to make a drop super concentrated and only needs to inject a drop of it to actually inject the healing.

[Teriz]

And you're assuming the "beam" wouldn't be charged with the alchemic properties of the concoction. And you're also assuming the engineer would be also dirty rich to buy potions by bulk on a nearly daily basis.

I'm assuming that a healing beam is a beam of energy, since "beam" is associated with energy not liquids.

It doesn't because of reasons I stated. Other classes use cheap reagents.

How cheap are we talking? A Minor healing potion only costs 5 copper each.
https://www.wowhead.com/item=118/minor-healing-potion

You get 50 copper from your very first quest in Northshire Abbey at level one.

Well, then. Are you going to claim that suddenly, out of nowhere, we'll find out a completely new and innovative and completely different type of technology than we have already in the world of Azeroth, like it happened for the monk? Since the monk class is the "oriental" style of Monk in RPG, while the other monks we had so far in WoW were based on the western type. And before you say anything about that, Mechagon does not count because from all images we have from it, including the mecha-gnomes, all that technology looks just like the normal tech we already have around.

Even the Pandaren Monk which came from Pandaren Brewmaster WC3 hero didn't have any healing attributes. So yeah, Blizzard pulled it out of their butts, and yeah they'll do the same for a Tinker class because healing is an established RPG trope for a technology-based class.

Then let me know when they're no longer the exception.

They're not an exception because they're a different type of Artificer from an entirely different race. Draenei artificers focus on Jewel-based tech. Nightborne do something else entirely. Draenei aren't the "rule" they're simply more established because they've been in the game longer.

[Ielenia]

I don't know, I remember needing to use a TON of ammo as a hunter.

And the reason everyone keeps bringing it up is it shows a precedent. You say "for the most part" but that's 5 classes that used outside means for their class.

And those five classes rarely used their reagents, while bullets and arrows were "dirty cheap". A handful of silver coins would get you 200 of those.

And you act like healing potions can't be dirt cheap.

They aren't.

And once again, you continue to ignore the administrating part of it. The tech involved in the delivery system. The syringes and firing mechanism, the grenade to drop the biotic antidote, the sprayer for the healing gas.

Yeah, and those syringes and firing mechanisms will be shooting nothing without alchemy.

[Vollus]

I could believe them as a new Allied race but I am not so sure about them being a new class 2/3 of the way through an expansion. But I like where you are coming from with this thread. It is great to dream and I for one hope that Blizzard takes that chance.

=V=

[Ielenia]

Also, in regards to this, does it more heavily depend on alchemy or tinkering if the chemical is just the bullet and the gun and everything else about the delivery system is a tinkered object?

On both. But keep this in mind: remove the alchemy, the application process is maintained, but the healing is removed. Remove the tech, the healing remains but the application process is removed.

[Izalla]

Giving an average attack speed of 2.5, that means every two and a half seconds you used one arrow/bullet. 200 arrow/bullets for 10 silver. That means, for ten silver, with auto-attacks and ability usage, you could remain in a fight for roughly 200 seconds. That's over three minutes of non-stop fighting. Arrows and bullets were beyond "dirty cheap" and were sold in large bulks. Potions are not "dirty cheap".

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Arrows and bullets were dirty cheap and were sold in large bulks. Potions are neither.

Dude you're going off of player set prices for things that won't matter in the slightest. You are saying that potions would cost too much, literally only because you think that would be the case. Reagents were dirt cheap, and if tinker was a vanilla class that had to buy potions as reagents off a vendor those would have been dirt cheap too...

[Bigbamboozal]

Great...a class that guts the already gutted engineering trade.
Well why not? They already ripped meta from my demo lock and gave a shit tier version of it to a shit two spec class.

[Izalla]

On both. But keep this in mind: remove the alchemy, the application process is maintained, but the healing is removed. Remove the tech, the healing remains but the application process is removed.

Remove bullets and hunters are staff whacking. You don't really have a valid argument here.

[Teriz]

Actually, there is no definition of a tinker as a hero whatsoever. They are simply deescribed as specialized, mostly gnomish and goblin, engineers. They build Shredders, guns, shrink-rays, and so on, some of their inventions are dangerous, and they supply their factions with engineering marvels as airships, zepplins, guns, explosives and so on. And all of that is already in-game, represented kinldy by the Engineering profession. Them being special is nothing but your headcanon. If you can find a piece of lore that supports your notion that a Tinker is anything else but a fancy word for engineer, please, provide that.

http://classic.battle.net/war3/neutr...intinker.shtml

And of course you have characters like Blackfuse, Mekkatorque, and Thermaplugg...

Player characters are somewhat stronger than the average representative of their class, but in no way as strong as the 'heroes', like Jaina, Shaman Thrall, Malfurion, Garrosh or Anduin.

The difference is that all of them represent classes. What classes do Mekkatorque, Gazlowe, and Blackfuse represent?

[matrix123mko]

Although healing makes sense, I don't actually like the idea of a Healer Tinker. I figure they could merge in the Alchemist from WC3's healing ability, but the idea of a Tinker doing that seems out of its core fantasy to me. It should be about the mechs and gadgets, not standing around injecting chemicals into people.

Why injections? Throwing potions without any aiming is much more fun. Also, we Blizzard can come up with some crazy idea like bandaging bomb or something.

[Teriz]

Great...a class that guts the already gutted engineering trade.
Well why not? They already ripped meta from my demo lock and gave a shit tier version of it to a shit two spec class.

Again, they wouldn't gut engineering because you could be a Tinker and a Engineer at the same time. You can't be a Lock and a DH.

[DotEleven]

And those five classes rarely used their reagents, while bullets and arrows were "dirty cheap". A handful of silver coins would get you 200 of those.


They aren't.


Yeah, and those syringes and firing mechanisms will be shooting nothing without alchemy.

So will the hunters bows and arrows. The warriors will also be swinging nothing without the blacksmiths weapons.

Also, once again, who's to say it's 1 to 1 in potion to heal. Who's to say the tinkers mechanics can't super concentrate that one bottle so it only needs a small drop and provides thousands of heals.

[Izalla]

Yep, it's also not like one potion needs to = 1 heal. What if the tech they have is able to make a drop super concentrated and only needs to inject a drop of it to actually inject the healing.

Nano bots that carry the heal straight to the wound instead of having to waste a whole vial on the entire body for one spot =P