2019-2020 NFL Thread

[Vetali]

I'm sure Cam Newton will be back, but it could be in a different uniform.

Calling it now, bucs

[xskarma]

Calling it now, bucs

Bucs would certainly be an interesting team for Cam.

I agree with draynay that I doubt the Bears move on from Trubisky. There's also some under current of chatter on twitter that Matt Nagy not adjusting his offense to Trubisky's strengths is part of the problem. Why keep forcing a square peg in a round hole when it's clearly not working? Nagy has an obligation to win games, not lose while sticking dogmatically to his scheme.

[Brubear]

Again, the Ravens struggled against a weaker Steelers team than the Patriots played. The Ravens had rest and home field on their side and honestly, I don't feel the Ravens are the best offense that the Patriots have faced this year. They may have been the offense that played the best against the Patriots but that doesn't mean they are the best offense. On paper, the Browns offense should have been better but it wasn't. I would even personally take the Bills offense over the Ravens.

The Patriots had 8 games where their defense was great in games it should have been great in while the Ravens had one game where their looked amazing.

Outside of the Patriots, Ravens, Bills and Chiefs ... the rest of the AFC is okay to terrible. Even the "competitive" AFC South the teams aren't that good. All AFC teams have pretty easy schedules.

The issue I have here is people are using a game as evidence the Patriots defense is overrated or that the Ravens are the top AFC team which is a nonsense argument in a game where the phrase "Any given Sunday" exists.

The AFC is weak, but the Patriots play the 4 weakest teams in the AFC (Dolphins, Jets, Bengals, Redskins) and play two of those teams twice since they're in their division. Both of which have only broken the 16 point mark twice this year, all of which are averaging less than 13 points a game. Hell the Steelers were the only team they'd played up until Sunday that was averaging over 20 points per game (they're 18th at 22 per game).

It doesn't matter how good the Browns look on paper. On paper the Vikings should be dominating everyone on both sides of the ball with their roster and Cousins is on the same level as Dan Marino with his career stats, but we all know that the reality is they're not. You can talk about any given Sunday but, to date and not counting their head-to-head, the Ravens have played 2 teams with a winning record and went 1-1 (AFC West leader and #2 team from NFC West) to the Pats 1 (the Bills, #2 in the AFC East). The Pats have played 4 games against teams with only 1 win and 2 2-win teams compared to the Ravens 2 vs 1-win and and 1 2-win team.

Are the Ravens the best offense in the league? They're a great rushing team but as you mentioned their passing game is weak, which is why I haven't "crowned" them. But I never said they were, simply that they were a good offense (most likely in the top-10) and the best the Pats had played so far. The Pats are a good defense, and will still likely end up as one of the top-10 in the league by the end of the season, not once have I said anything differently. I simply stated that they were getting far too much hype for having played what is easily one of the weakest schedules in the league through week 8 and everyone who was ready to crown them as an all-time great defense should slow their roll until they got to their 5-game stretch where they actually play winning teams that aren't the Bills.

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I am pointing out that crowning the Ravens after one win (at home after a Bye) is silly.

Look at the Patriots Ravens game ... even with starting with a 3 and out, Patriots ended the game with 30 less yards than the Ravens and 4 less first downs ... while controlling the ball for an entire quarter less than the Ravens. The Ravens should have completely out performed the Patriots and they really only did in the points category.

They gave up over 500 yards to Cleveland while controlling the ball just as much. I am not judging the Ravens just on the loss to the Browns ... they aren't as good as people think. They have a weak schedule overall and barely beat the Steelers who aren't the Steelers of old. While Ravens are top rushing and top scoring Offense ... they are 20th in passing. I am more worried on a offense that is higher in both stats, rather than being bloated by having a qb that likes to run. Lamar Jackson is literally their rushing leader and accounts for about a third of the rushing yards.

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Facts are more than just stats. If you are going to hold teams, hold them to the same standards. "The Patriots played no one, therefor their defense is overrated" - ignores stats to make argument. "The Ravens are awesome, they are top scoring offense!" - uses stats, but ignores who they got the stats against.

Stats are only half the picture.

Who has crowned the Ravens, mate? Who in this thread is ready to crown the Ravens for their win on Sunday?

[Vetali]

Bucs would certainly be an interesting team for Cam.

I agree with draynay that I doubt the Bears move on from Trubisky. There's also some under current of chatter on twitter that Matt Nagy not adjusting his offense to Trubisky's strengths is part of the problem. Why keep forcing a square peg in a round hole when it's clearly not working? Nagy has an obligation to win games, not lose while sticking dogmatically to his scheme.

I doubted AZ moving from Rosen after 1 year when the rumors started cropping up about this time last season.

I honestly think the bucs would be a perfect fit for Cam. Hes gonna be salty to be let go and would love to play carolina 2 times a year, bucs are 100% dropping Winston after this season, and I think Bruce Arians would be a good coach for him. That is if Cam can get healthy.

[Kokolums]

So I'm supposed to buy that the Ravens, currently the top scoring team and lead rushing team with 200+ yards a game, only scored 37 points and ran for 200+ yards against the Patriots as a fluke?

Belichick had several years where he lost to the steelers in the regular season and then beat them in the playoffs. i kinda wonder if he was holding back.

[Darththeo]

The AFC is weak, but the Patriots play the 4 weakest teams in the AFC (Dolphins, Jets, Bengals, Redskins) and play two of those teams twice since they're in their division. Both of which have only broken the 16 point mark twice this year, all of which are averaging less than 13 points a game. Hell the Steelers were the only team they'd played up until Sunday that was averaging over 20 points per game (they're 18th at 22 per game).

It doesn't matter how good the Browns look on paper. On paper the Vikings should be dominating everyone on both sides of the ball with their roster and Cousins is on the same level as Dan Marino with his career stats, but we all know that the reality is they're not. You can talk about any given Sunday but, to date and not counting their head-to-head, the Ravens have played 2 teams with a winning record and went 1-1 (AFC West leader and #2 team from NFC West) to the Pats 1 (the Bills, #2 in the AFC East). The Pats have played 4 games against teams with only 1 win and 2 2-win teams compared to the Ravens 2 vs 1-win and and 1 2-win team.

Are the Ravens the best offense in the league? They're a great rushing team but as you mentioned their passing game is weak, which is why I haven't "crowned" them. But I never said they were, simply that they were a good offense (most likely in the top-10) and the best the Pats had played so far. The Pats are a good defense, and will still likely end up as one of the top-10 in the league by the end of the season, not once have I said anything differently. I simply stated that they were getting far too much hype for having played what is easily one of the weakest schedules in the league through week 8 and everyone who was ready to crown them as an all-time great defense should slow their roll until they got to their 5-game stretch where they actually play winning teams that aren't the Bills.

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Who has crowned the Ravens, mate? Who in this thread is ready to crown the Ravens for their win on Sunday?

Dude, you just stated the Redskins from the NFC East were an AFC Team.

[MardestyGSOG]

I am pointing out that crowning the Ravens after one win (at home after a Bye) is silly.

Look at the Patriots Ravens game ... even with starting with a 3 and out, Patriots ended the game with 30 less yards than the Ravens and 4 less first downs ... while controlling the ball for an entire quarter less than the Ravens. The Ravens should have completely out performed the Patriots and they really only did in the points category.

They gave up over 500 yards to Cleveland while controlling the ball just as much. I am not judging the Ravens just on the loss to the Browns ... they aren't as good as people think. They have a weak schedule overall and barely beat the Steelers who aren't the Steelers of old. While Ravens are top rushing and top scoring Offense ... they are 20th in passing. I am more worried on a offense that is higher in both stats, rather than being bloated by having a qb that likes to run. Lamar Jackson is literally their rushing leader and accounts for about a third of the rushing yards.

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Facts are more than just stats. If you are going to hold teams, hold them to the same standards. "The Patriots played no one, therefor their defense is overrated" - ignores stats to make argument. "The Ravens are awesome, they are top scoring offense!" - uses stats, but ignores who they got the stats against.

Stats are only half the picture.

1. After 8 games they’re 1st in scoring and 2nd in yardage, or vice verse can’t remember, they didn’t just beat the pats after a bye, they also decidedly beat Seattle IN Seattle the previous game, won 2/3 of their division games. Decidedly beating 2 of the top 5 teams in the league in a 2 game span isn’t something to be written off, and 8 weeks into the season you can’t write off top of the league offensive rankings, the sample size is large enough

2. You used the any given Sunday cliche and then repeatedly spout off about 500 yards given up to Cleveland, as if any given Sunday isn’t applicable. Some other concrete facts that don’t involve cliches that mean nothing; ravens played Cleveland before Tony Jefferson got injured, and Jefferson was the single biggest liability, Marcus Peters is now a starter but Anthony averett was starting vs Cleveland, jimmy smith was out until Sunday night and his return is a huge boost, josh bynes and LJ fort are huge upgrades over Kenny young, jihad ward has produced more pressure than any DL on the roster at the time of the Cleveland game. All of these are changes that have happened since the Cleveland game, that 500 yard stretch of games was from a defense that literally had 5 different starters than the ravens currently have.

3. They barely beat the Steelers, well, it was IN Pittsburgh, the refs had complete control of that game from the first quarter, the team was still finding its footing, and Pittsburgh has been a solid team this year, their defense has been stellar, their run game has been very strong, and truthfully Hodges looked better than Rudolph ever has, the Steelers have beaten some solid teams and given some teams fits this year, and the ravens and Steelers have almost always had tight games.

How you can write off a team that has played some stiff competition and halfway through is top 2 in offense and currently holds the 2 seed, is beyond me.

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The issue is more than just yards and points, I know that is the measure, but a lot of what the Ravens did was in week 1 against the Dolphins. It is easy to look good when you beat up a poor team as badly as they did. The Ravens are far more average than their stats show.

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And up until two weeks ago, most people were stating the Bills were the 2nd Best team in the AFC behind the Patriots ... so ... yeah, the Ravens are overrated, they are closer to the Bills than people are willing to admit.

The patriots played the dolphins too. They’ve also played the jets TWICE(dolphins beat the jets btw), they also played the redskins. The ravens haven’t faced a very strong schedule, but the patriots schedule has been MUCH easier, literally played 3 of the 4 worst teams in the league and one of them you’ve played twice. Can’t say the same for the ravens, they played 2 games against bottom of the barrel teams, patriots have played 4, literally half the season is against common opponents and 3 of the remaining pats games were against bottom dwellers. Did the patriots have to play the chiefs in arrowhead? Did they go to Seattle and WIN? No, you can hang the bills over our heads, hooray for you, you barely beat the bills. So you wanna y’all about barely beating the Steelers, but there ya go, out 5 on it the Steelers beat the bills lmao

This argument is flat out stupid. Ravens and pats have both played easy schedules but the patriots were decidedly easier and if you wanna use weak schedule to discard the ravens stats, use it to discard the patriots as well, but keep in mind who won the head to head matchup

[Darththeo]

1. After 8 games they’re 1st in scoring and 2nd in yardage, or vice verse can’t remember, they didn’t just beat the pats after a bye, they also decidedly beat Seattle IN Seattle the previous game, won 2/3 of their division games. Decidedly beating 2 of the top 5 teams in the league in a 2 game span isn’t something to be written off, and 8 weeks into the season you can’t write off top of the league offensive rankings, the sample size is large enough

False, it wasn't "decidedly" if you look beyond just the final score. That game was tied at half time and Seattle and Ravens were statistically even in anything other than turnovers and points ... that game was a few plays from being a Seattle victory. This is my point, you can't just look at some of the numbers.

2. You used the any given Sunday cliche and then repeatedly spout off about 500 yards given up to Cleveland, as if any given Sunday isn’t applicable. Some other concrete facts that don’t involve cliches that mean nothing; ravens played Cleveland before Tony Jefferson got injured, and Jefferson was the single biggest liability, Marcus Peters is now a starter but Anthony averett was starting vs Cleveland, jimmy smith was out until Sunday night and his return is a huge boost, josh bynes and LJ fort are huge upgrades over Kenny young, jihad ward has produced more pressure than any DL on the roster at the time of the Cleveland game. All of these are changes that have happened since the Cleveland game, that 500 yard stretch of games was from a defense that literally had 5 different starters than the ravens currently have.

*points to other posts in this topic* No, it is applicable. Because I have shown how the score isn't just what you should focus on. This is a problem that I have with a lot of Football fans ... the score is half the story AT BEST. Stats only tell you so much, the Chargers were one year the best statistical team in football in 2010 if you went by yardage ... but they didn't even make the playoffs!

The Ravens offense is just one player ... Lamar, that's it. If he is hurt, they literally have no offense ... they aren't a team, they are a single person. If Tom Brady goes down, the Patriots have other players who can step up and keep the team competitive ... do the Ravens? No. Hell, there is arguments that Tom Brady is hurting the Patriots offense right now.

3. They barely beat the Steelers, well, it was IN Pittsburgh, the refs had complete control of that game from the first quarter, the team was still finding its footing, and Pittsburgh has been a solid team this year, their defense has been stellar, their run game has been very strong, and truthfully Hodges looked better than Rudolph ever has, the Steelers have beaten some solid teams and given some teams fits this year, and the ravens and Steelers have almost always had tight games.

And Patriots beat practically the same Steelers teams (just with their Pro-bowl future hall of famer) by 30.

How you can write off a team that has played some stiff competition and halfway through is top 2 in offense and currently holds the 2 seed, is beyond me.

Because their success if overblown. They have only scored over 30 twice this season ... against the Dolphins and against the Patriots after a bye. They are likely to make the playoffs and win their division, but they are only going to have the 2 seed if either the Patriots tank or Mahomes is out for most of the remaining weeks.

The patriots played the dolphins too. They’ve also played the jets TWICE(dolphins beat the jets btw), they also played the redskins. The ravens haven’t faced a very strong schedule, but the patriots schedule has been MUCH easier, literally played 3 of the 4 worst teams in the league and one of them you’ve played twice. Can’t say the same for the ravens, they played 2 games against bottom of the barrel teams, patriots have played 4, literally half the season is against common opponents and 3 of the remaining pats games were against bottom dwellers. Did the patriots have to play the chiefs in arrowhead? Did they go to Seattle and WIN? No, you can hang the bills over our heads, hooray for you, you barely beat the bills. So you wanna y’all about barely beating the Steelers, but there ya go, out 5 on it the Steelers beat the bills lmao

You call me out for being a hypocrite and yet have no problem displaying it.

This argument is flat out stupid. Ravens and pats have both played easy schedules but the patriots were decidedly easier and if you wanna use weak schedule to discard the ravens stats, use it to discard the patriots as well, but keep in mind who won the head to head matchup

At home, after bye thus two weeks to prepare and granted a TD at the beginning because of a bad call by the Refs. Sorry, but you think you called me out and you just showed how much of a hypocrite you are.

Do you even watch football? The years the Patriots make the Superbowl, they tend to have one loss that on paper looks bad (in fact, I can only recall one year the Patriots DIDN'T have a bad loss in the Regular season). You grant the Ravens moving parts against the Browns, deny the Patriots the same luxury. You literally just showed how stats and facts only matter to you when you feel it proves you right.

My argument isn't Ravens = bad ... I am stating people are overrating the Ravens, the scores only show half the picture. They are a few plays from being under 500 and they have a weak schedule ... can you say the same for the Patriots? And Seattle is a similar team ... Seattle has a lot of close games.

And even though I am a Patriots fan, my feeling is that the AFC is playing to see who loses to San Fran in the Super Bowl.

[eschatological]

Man, the hoops being jumped through here to suggest the Ravens aren't an elite team in the AFC are kind of ridiculous.


No one's saying they're gonna be the #1 seed, or the AFC representative to the Super Bowl, but I think if you're talking about the elite teams in the AFC, you have to mention the Ravens.

[Kyanion]

And even though I am a Patriots fan, my feeling is that the AFC is playing to see who loses to San Fran in the Super Bowl.

I mean nevermind the rest of the stuff you spouted off, but really? The 49ers? They got quite the brutal schedule coming up in the next 5 games. They've got stiff competition in their own division let alone worrying about the number 1 seed. Of course I like it even more when people just ignore the Saints, let them fly under the radar, works for me.

[draynay]

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/yards-per-game
https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/points-per-game

Yeah, they're number 2 in yards per game and number 1 in scoring. And that's for the entire NFL. The people arguing against reality are hilarious.

Just one person, who has failed to convince anyone of anything despite his claims to the contrary.

[Kyanion]

Just one person, who has failed to convince anyone of anything despite his claims to the contrary.

Their statements are getting more and more ridiculous with every post too.

[MardestyGSOG]

False, it wasn't "decidedly" if you look beyond just the final score. That game was tied at half time and Seattle and Ravens were statistically even in anything other than turnovers and points ... that game was a few plays from being a Seattle victory. This is my point, you can't just look at some of the numbers.



*points to other posts in this topic* No, it is applicable. Because I have shown how the score isn't just what you should focus on. This is a problem that I have with a lot of Football fans ... the score is half the story AT BEST. Stats only tell you so much, the Chargers were one year the best statistical team in football in 2010 if you went by yardage ... but they didn't even make the playoffs!

The Ravens offense is just one player ... Lamar, that's it. If he is hurt, they literally have no offense ... they aren't a team, they are a single person. If Tom Brady goes down, the Patriots have other players who can step up and keep the team competitive ... do the Ravens? No. Hell, there is arguments that Tom Brady is hurting the Patriots offense right now.



And Patriots beat practically the same Steelers teams (just with their Pro-bowl future hall of famer) by 30.



Because their success if overblown. They have only scored over 30 twice this season ... against the Dolphins and against the Patriots after a bye. They are likely to make the playoffs and win their division, but they are only going to have the 2 seed if either the Patriots tank or Mahomes is out for most of the remaining weeks.



You call me out for being a hypocrite and yet have no problem displaying it.



At home, after bye thus two weeks to prepare and granted a TD at the beginning because of a bad call by the Refs. Sorry, but you think you called me out and you just showed how much of a hypocrite you are.

Do you even watch football? The years the Patriots make the Superbowl, they tend to have one loss that on paper looks bad (in fact, I can only recall one year the Patriots DIDN'T have a bad loss in the Regular season). You grant the Ravens moving parts against the Browns, deny the Patriots the same luxury. You literally just showed how stats and facts only matter to you when you feel it proves you right.

My argument isn't Ravens = bad ... I am stating people are overrating the Ravens, the scores only show half the picture. They are a few plays from being under 500 and they have a weak schedule ... can you say the same for the Patriots? And Seattle is a similar team ... Seattle has a lot of close games.

And even though I am a Patriots fan, my feeling is that the AFC is playing to see who loses to San Fran in the Super Bowl.

Lmao I’m talking hypocritical out of irony. Talking about how ridiculous your reasoning is, because even if your perception of what a good and bad team is, is accurate, then you would still be wrong, I proved you wrong on your own terms is all. You use strength of schedule differences so I told you why that’s a flawed argument(flawed is putting it politely)

The number of times you contradict yourself is insane. “Points only tell half the story” then uses points to degrade the ravens. Then you use one NZI penalty on the first drive to blame the loss on, that was a 3 quarter ass kicking, ravens had a hiccup in Q2 and I’ll give you a golfclap for that.

The Seahawks made that game interesting for a time but the ravens controlled the game most of the second half, halfway through the third the ravens took the ball and controlled it til the fourth quarter and then scored a TD and sucked the life out of the Seahawks and capped it off with another long drive in the fourth and a scoop six at the end. The game wasn’t a blowout til garbage time but the ravens easily controlled that game from midway through the third, same as the patriots game, it got interesting in the second thanks to 2 shit turnovers, and from about 5 plays into the 2nd half the ravens controlled the game, they got the scoop six to further the lead, and from the next possession they just drained the entire 2nd half on I believe 3 possessions and scored on all of them. Both games were over with well over ten minutes left

Also, you say the ravens are only one player but teams still have to stop him. If they can’t, doesn’t it say a lot about 11 defenders being unable to stop one man? And shit, if you wanna go this route, maybe we should act like the colts didn’t deserve shit because of Peyton, or the broncos don’t deserve their first 2 Super Bowls because of Terrell Davis, you get the point, why would you discount the teams best player? And for the record, the ravens have a top 5 corner, the leagues best FS, 2 more corners that belong in the top 20 and one leading the league in ints since entering in 2015, they have an edge who may reset the market this offseason, the leagues best NT, and a damn good DC calling them. Then on offense you have a top 3LT, a top 3 ALL TIME guard, a likely pro bowl TE, the leagues best blocking TE, marquise brown who has been lethal as a rookie, and mark ingram who has been an excellent back from day one, Gus Edwards who gained over 700yds despite not becoming a lead back until week 11, and a 320lb freak athlete of a FB, and the perfect play caller as well.

You are REALLY unaware of the talent the ravens have. Sure, Lamar Jackson is what makes this thing go, but with this current squad and coaching staff, I believe rg3 could go .500 with this team if needed. This roster is way better than you think

[Darththeo]

Lmao I’m talking hypocritical out of irony. Talking about how ridiculous your reasoning is, because even if your perception of what a good and bad team is, is accurate, then you would still be wrong, I proved you wrong on your own terms is all. You use strength of schedule differences so I told you why that’s a flawed argument(flawed is putting it politely)

The number of times you contradict yourself is insane. “Points only tell half the story” then uses points to degrade the ravens. Then you use one NZI penalty on the first drive to blame the loss on, that was a 3 quarter ass kicking, ravens had a hiccup in Q2 and I’ll give you a golfclap for that.

The Seahawks made that game interesting for a time but the ravens controlled the game most of the second half, halfway through the third the ravens took the ball and controlled it til the fourth quarter and then scored a TD and sucked the life out of the Seahawks and capped it off with another long drive in the fourth and a scoop six at the end. The game wasn’t a blowout til garbage time but the ravens easily controlled that game from midway through the third, same as the patriots game, it got interesting in the second thanks to 2 shit turnovers, and from about 5 plays into the 2nd half the ravens controlled the game, they got the scoop six to further the lead, and from the next possession they just drained the entire 2nd half on I believe 3 possessions and scored on all of them. Both games were over with well over ten minutes left

Also, you say the ravens are only one player but teams still have to stop him. If they can’t, doesn’t it say a lot about 11 defenders being unable to stop one man? And shit, if you wanna go this route, maybe we should act like the colts didn’t deserve shit because of Peyton, or the broncos don’t deserve their first 2 Super Bowls because of Terrell Davis, you get the point, why would you discount the teams best player? And for the record, the ravens have a top 5 corner, the leagues best FS, 2 more corners that belong in the top 20 and one leading the league in ints since entering in 2015, they have an edge who may reset the market this offseason, the leagues best NT, and a damn good DC calling them. Then on offense you have a top 3LT, a top 3 ALL TIME guard, a likely pro bowl TE, the leagues best blocking TE, marquise brown who has been lethal as a rookie, and mark ingram who has been an excellent back from day one, Gus Edwards who gained over 700yds despite not becoming a lead back until week 11, and a 320lb freak athlete of a FB, and the perfect play caller as well.

You are REALLY unaware of the talent the ravens have. Sure, Lamar Jackson is what makes this thing go, but with this current squad and coaching staff, I believe rg3 could go .500 with this team if needed. This roster is way better than you think

You lack the ability to understand anything beyond what is on a piece of paper, you are no where closer to understanding my point and yet think you defeated my argument on my terms ... no, you aren't "talking hypocritical" ironically ... you are literally a hypocrite.

There is a differences between a best player ... and the majority of your offense. The Broncos you listed had John Elway, who was 12th in passing yards that season and 9th in TD. They also had Rod Smith who was yardage the 4th best receiver in the league. Davis was the best player, but he wasn't alone in that offense. They had a decent passing and receiving threat as well.

The Colts when they had Peyton had two number 1 quality wide receivers. Acting like that was "only Peyton" is nonsense. A few season, Peyton was supported by a decent running game.

There is no real receiving threat and Lamar Jackson is the passer AND the rushing threat. You list all these other players, but you don't fucking know shit about them ... Lamar is literally your offense and RG3 wouldn't even have the close to .500. You change what stats matter to you, if INTs matter, you don't have the best Free Safety in the game ... Devin McCourty of the Patriots would be that this season. Otherwise, statistically they are pretty similar. You could make an argument either way.

You think you understand my argument, but you change what stats matter to you when to make the argument. You haven't even gotten in par sec of dismantling my argument because you are incapable of understanding anything more than "this number bigger than that one." You are just a blind Ravens fan who doesn't know shit. I am done with your weak ass arguments. Have the last word if you want.

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Just one person, who has failed to convince anyone of anything despite his claims to the contrary.

Because when talking to people who only get their football knowledge from the NFL network and ESPN ... it is hard to get people to think.

[Kyanion]

Because when talking to people who only get their football knowledge from the NFL network and ESPN ... it is hard to get people to think.

You are making some really bad assumptions there. Also you are just claiming you are the authority on all things football and everyone else is an idiot or a talking head by making that statement.

[Crissi]

Tone it down and stop getting personal with each other, including accusing other people of not knowing football

[Darththeo]

You are making some really bad assumptions there. Also you are just claiming you are the authority on all things football and everyone else is an idiot or a talking head by making that statement.

I am not an authority, I am just tired of the ESPN/NFL Network sensationalism. It isn't just them, it is announcers in general.

They don't look at the whole picture. The look at numbers on a papers. Every year we get the same arguments, but they'll switch around what matters when. There is no consistency in logic. I am not saying the Ravens are bad, I am saying the Ravens are overrated. I hate the arguments like "X team beat Y team and Y team beat Z team, therefor X team is better than Z team." It ignores match ups, some teams match up better against others, some team don't play well in certain stadiums (example, Brady doesn't like playing in Buffalo or Denver stadiums.) There is so much more that people ignore.

I also hate "This team puts up a lot of points and yards." It doesn't mean they are good. 2010 Chargers lead the league in offensive yardage and yardage given up ... statistically arguable to be the best offense and best defense ... they failed to the make the playoffs. Numbers only tell you so much, you need to look more. With how much the Ravens controlled the ball over the Patriots, the yardage mark is way off and the score should have been worse than it was. 17 points is a bad loss, but it should have been worse if the Ravens were as good as people claim ... especially when those same people are claiming the Patriots defense is overrated.

And the argument "They are talented" ... yeah, so is literally every team, that is just a buzz word, it literally means nothing. Talented half the time just means is known for that position.

[MardestyGSOG]

Lol it’s starting to look like trolling. Like it can’t be serious

[Kyanion]

I am not an authority, I am just tired of the ESPN/NFL Network sensationalism. It isn't just them, it is announcers in general.

They don't look at the whole picture. The look at numbers on a papers. Every year we get the same arguments, but they'll switch around what matters when. There is no consistency in logic. I am not saying the Ravens are bad, I am saying the Ravens are overrated. I hate the arguments like "X team beat Y team and Y team beat Z team, therefor X team is better than Z team."

I also hate "This team puts up a lot of points and yards." It doesn't mean they are good. 2010 Chargers lead the league in offensive yardage and yardage given up ... statistically arguable to be the best offense and best defense ... they failed to the make the playoffs. Numbers only tell you so much, you need to look more. With how much the Ravens controlled the ball over the Patriots, the yardage mark is way off and the score should have been worse than it was. 17 points is a bad loss, but it should have been worse if the Ravens were as good as people claim.

Numbers on paper don't always tell the story either, if they did this game would be a LOT fucking easier to predict and bettors would make a lot of money. Yards can be an empty stat as many teams that are good give up garbage 4th quarter yards by the bundle just to end the game faster. Hell stats and analytics tell you that going for it on 4th down and 1 or 2 should be done nearly all the time yet hardly any team does it, the Ravens are starting to do it a lot more which just goes to show how much they are paying attention to what advanced metrics are coming around.

17 points is more than a bad loss I'd say, that is a near blowout, but really that game was close going into the 4th quarter, it was 24-20 with Baltimore scoring early in the 4th as we all know. Turnovers and when and where they happen are a factor, special teams in some games are a big factor yet don't show up really in box scores that people glance at.

It would be easy to go on and on but I'm reserving judgement on the Pats and Ravens until I see more from each of them. I feel confident in my Saints in the NFC and that is about it.

[MardestyGSOG]

I am not an authority, I am just tired of the ESPN/NFL Network sensationalism. It isn't just them, it is announcers in general.

They don't look at the whole picture. The look at numbers on a papers. Every year we get the same arguments, but they'll switch around what matters when. There is no consistency in logic. I am not saying the Ravens are bad, I am saying the Ravens are overrated. I hate the arguments like "X team beat Y team and Y team beat Z team, therefor X team is better than Z team." It ignores match ups, some teams match up better against others, some team don't play well in certain stadiums (example, Brady doesn't like playing in Buffalo or Denver stadiums.) There is so much more that people ignore.

I also hate "This team puts up a lot of points and yards." It doesn't mean they are good. 2010 Chargers lead the league in offensive yardage and yardage given up ... statistically arguable to be the best offense and best defense ... they failed to the make the playoffs. Numbers only tell you so much, you need to look more. With how much the Ravens controlled the ball over the Patriots, the yardage mark is way off and the score should have been worse than it was. 17 points is a bad loss, but it should have been worse if the Ravens were as good as people claim ... especially when those same people are claiming the Patriots defense is overrated.

And the argument "They are talented" ... yeah, so is literally every team, that is just a buzz word, it literally means nothing. Talented half the time just means is known for that position.

You’re really not seeing the irony here? Read back over your posts then come back here and read the bolded part lmao