2019-2020 NFL Thread

[Gestopft]

Aw crap, the Brawl of the Birds is during my daughter's birthday party next weekend.

Playoff bracket has been mostly unsurprising for a while. I guess the Titans would've been a surprise a while ago, but the AFC doesn't have that many good teams, so that last spot was anyone's.

[eschatological]

I'm not the one 'arguing in good faith' by calling someone a genius in an insulting fashion, multiple times calling me salty and so on. But I'm just going to end this conversation here and toss you on ignore. You're just out to be insulting and rude and not talk about the game.

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The thing is this is something that is reviewable, it is no different than reviewing the pass play that stopped an inch or two short of the goal line. This year PI is reviewable for good or bad.

Games get decided by replay all the time, what are you even going on about. The goal is to get the call right, period.

I am totally against the idea of the booth calling down for a non-call PI, because it can literally be done on most plays. I'm not looking for football to become like basketball where it gets bogged down by replays and fouls in the last few minutes. Carroll, if he had the right, would probably tried to challenge the non-call, but those aren't the rules because you don't want a coach to have no options within 2 minutes if they're out of TOs. There's literally no good solution to this.


I understand you're still bitter over the NFC championship game last year, but I'm completely over this PI system. There's too many ways to interpret the penalty, it's not applied consistently, and it opens the door to reviewing any penalty because any penalty can affect the game with 2 minutes left.

It's a fucking shitshow and shouldn't exist except Sean Peyton is a whiny idiot who didn't consider the ramifications of pushing this through the rules committee when it looked like it wouldn't happen.

Teams sometimes get screwed by non-calls. Oh well, it happens. It all washes out in the end.

[Fritters154]

With the early draft order also now set, what are the chances that Urban Meyer becomes the Redskins coach that already has Dwayne Haskins as their future QB, Terry McLaurin as their top receiver, and the 2nd pick in the draft who is likely to be Chase Young?

They are all OSU guys that he recruited and coached. Plus, Alex Smith is also still on contract with them (his QB at Utah) and would probably be a target to convert into a member of someones coaching staff if he were to retire. There has also obviously been talk about him taking the Cowboys job too assuming Jerry actually fires Garrett, which also has ties to his college coaching with Ezekiel Elliot.

[eschatological]

With the early draft order also now set, what are the chances that Urban Meyer becomes the Redskins coach that already has Dwayne Haskins as their future QB, Terry McLaurin as their top receiver, and the 2nd pick in the draft who is likely to be Chase Young?

They are all OSU guys that he recruited and coached. Plus, Alex Smith is also still on contract with them (his QB at Utah) and would probably be a target to convert into a member of someones coaching staff if he were to retire. There has also obviously been talk about him taking the Cowboys job too assuming Jerry actually fires Garrett, which also has ties to his college coaching with Ezekiel Elliot.

Rumor is Ron Rivera is top choice for the Redskins job, and that it's Rivera's top choice as well. Could happen as early as tomorrow.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Rumor is Ron Rivera is top choice for the Redskins job, and that it's Rivera's top choice as well. Could happen as early as tomorrow.

Giants about to fire everyone and offer a Jon Gruden deal for Rivera then.

[Kyanion]

I am totally against the idea of the booth calling down for a non-call PI, because it can literally be done on most plays. I'm not looking for football to become like basketball where it gets bogged down by replays and fouls in the last few minutes. Carroll, if he had the right, would probably tried to challenge the non-call, but those aren't the rules because you don't want a coach to have no options within 2 minutes if they're out of TOs. There's literally no good solution to this.


I understand you're still bitter over the NFC championship game last year, but I'm completely over this PI system. There's too many ways to interpret the penalty, it's not applied consistently, and it opens the door to reviewing any penalty because any penalty can affect the game with 2 minutes left.

It's a fucking shitshow and shouldn't exist except Sean Peyton is a whiny idiot who didn't consider the ramifications of pushing this through the rules committee when it looked like it wouldn't happen.

Teams sometimes get screwed by non-calls. Oh well, it happens. It all washes out in the end.

And yet the simple solution of a sky judge wasn’t considered. The cfl has had a better system for 6 years with PI being challengeable along with some other things the nfl won’t let you challenge.

And sorry this year PI is reviewable and should have been in this game. And come out in the wash? Yeah ok just watch the shit flow if it happens in the super bowl and costs a team the game.

[Fritters154]

Rumor is Ron Rivera is top choice for the Redskins job, and that it's Rivera's top choice as well. Could happen as early as tomorrow.

That could be an interesting pickup, I totally forgot he was even out of a job.

[draynay]

I understand you're still bitter over the NFC championship game last year

Dude, what the fuck? Can't a person complain about a rule without being accused of bias or butthurt? I expect it from that trash-talking asshole on the previous page, but from you I expect better.


It should have been reviewed, but it doesn't really matter, never would have come up if not for clock management that would stupefy even Andy Reid.

[eschatological]

And sorry this year PI is reviewable and should have been in this game. And come out in the wash? Yeah ok just watch the shit flow if it happens in the super bowl and costs a team the game.

1) It's a one year trial, and I hope to god it's dropped.

2) The way they've handled it this year (not just today) strongly indicates the league isn't willing to override referees' judgment call on like, 90% of PIs. There's been like, 2 non-calls reversed and called this year. Maybe a handful of PIs reversed and called non-PI. Are you telling me the refs have only misjudged two non-calls on PI this year? Nope.....it's just a super shitty thing to reverse a judgment call. This isn't reviewing a turnover or a scoring play, which are more clear cut, video-evidence based calls, nor is it checking for offsides in hockey/soccer. Penalties have always been judgment calls, otherwise there'd be holding on every play.

3) The system slows down the game and makes it suck more.

4) It opens the door to the debate on other penalties, which is a shit show. What happens when a bad holding call or QB hit call negates a big play in a big game, what, are we going to open up those for review?

5) Peyton himself is against the "sky judge," as a member of the competition committee. IDK how it works in the CFL, but I sure as shit don't want someone who can literally stop the game every time he spots a foul not called. And then how do you suggest that's only something for the final 2 minutes? Penalties like this can affect major parts of the game outside those two minutes. But if the CFL allows for unlimited challenges of PI and other stuff, that's fucking ridiculous and unacceptable slowdown. Human errors exist, it all evens out in the end, I've been a Bills fan for 30 years and we've been unequivocally screwed many times by refs, but then, in the Greatest Comeback ever where we rallied from 35-3 down against the Oilers in the 1991 Wild Card, the refs missed our WR stepping out of bounds before catching a 60 yard TD that helped fuel the comeback - so it all washes out in the end.

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Dude, what the fuck? Can't a person complain about a rule without being accused of bias or butthurt? I expect it from that trash-talking asshole on the previous page, but from you I expect better.


It should have been reviewed, but it doesn't really matter, never would have come up if not for clock management that would stupefy even Andy Reid.

It isn't a reasonable rule, by any measure. And I don't know of anyone but Saints fans who wanted it as a rule after last season. Most fans already think replay slows the game down too much as it is.

[Kyanion]

1) It's a one year trial, and I hope to god it's dropped.

I hope it is improved personally. There is precedence in other leagues like the CFL that it can be done quickly and effectively. I'm sorry but a multi-billion dollar operation like the NFL can make some technological improvements and stop fucking things up. Not that hard.

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2) The way they've handled it this year (not just today) strongly indicates the league isn't willing to override referees' judgment call on like, 90% of PIs. There's been like, 2 non-calls reversed and called this year. Maybe a handful of PIs reversed and called non-PI. Are you telling me the refs have only misjudged two non-calls on PI this year? Nope.....it's just a super shitty thing to reverse a judgment call. This isn't reviewing a turnover or a scoring play, which are more clear cut, video-evidence based calls, nor is it checking for offsides in hockey/soccer. Penalties have always been judgment calls, otherwise there'd be holding on every play.

Reviewing 'judgement' calls is something many challenges are based around. Such as the judgement of a ref when spotting the ball for a first down. To me there is no difference on reviewing a PI or the placement of a ball or whether a player got two feet in bounds and so on. Judgement calls is how it goes. However my problem is with relying on the judgement on sometimes out of position referees who in many cases are also old. I want the call to be made correctly and quickly. However most of the 'review' time is just because the NFL can squeeze another commercial break in. Put a short time limit on a call and if nothing is done in X seconds stay with the call on the field if it is not clear and obvious. I'd rather they get it right but I can understand the need for speed and keeping things moving.

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3) The system slows down the game and makes it suck more.

4) It opens the door to the debate on other penalties, which is a shit show. What happens when a bad holding call or QB hit call negates a big play in a big game, what, are we going to open up those for review?

3) Time limit and stay with the call on the field if they can't get it right do it fast.

4) Yeah sorry, I see no difference in a judgement call in regards to holding or a late hit compared to the placement of a ball for a first down or getting two feet in bounds, or forward progress and on and on.

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5) Peyton himself is against the "sky judge," as a member of the competition committee. IDK how it works in the CFL, but I sure as shit don't want someone who can literally stop the game every time he spots a foul not called. And then how do you suggest that's only something for the final 2 minutes? Penalties like this can affect major parts of the game outside those two minutes. But if the CFL allows for unlimited challenges of PI and other stuff, that's fucking ridiculous and unacceptable slowdown. Human errors exist, it all evens out in the end, I've been a Bills fan for 30 years and we've been unequivocally screwed many times by refs, but then, in the Greatest Comeback ever where we rallied from 35-3 down against the Oilers in the 1991 Wild Card, the refs missed our WR stepping out of bounds before catching a 60 yard TD that helped fuel the comeback - so it all washes out in the end.

You do realize that college has various replays done from a booth right? It isn't total chaos and the game moves on. As far as the final 2 minutes goes, it would be the same as the rest of the game. Coaches could have their 2 challenges but things that were obviously missed could be challenged from the booth or sky judge.

And as far as your anecdotal evidence goes, I don't care. I don't want it to 'wash out in the end' or whatever the hell that means. I want the calls done correctly and the game to be won by the better team, not by the team that got some shitty calls to win. Nothing will cure all of the problems of the game but I'm sure many issues can be worked around and this mess can be improved.

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It isn't a reasonable rule, by any measure. And I don't know of anyone but Saints fans who wanted it as a rule after last season. Most fans already think replay slows the game down too much as it is.

Yes Saints fans had a lot of anger at this issue and wanted it as a rule but they aren't the only ones. I'm sure there are plenty of more people fed up with shitty officiating after this year and would like some improvements. As I said, put a time limit on a replay, instead of a 3 minute commercial break (where the call is already decided and just waiting to make the call on the field but they NFL needs more money so lets wait an extra 90 seconds.)

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Dude, what the fuck? Can't a person complain about a rule without being accused of bias or butthurt? I expect it from that trash-talking asshole on the previous page, but from you I expect better.


It should have been reviewed, but it doesn't really matter, never would have come up if not for clock management that would stupefy even Andy Reid.

Yeah the cheap shots are pretty fucking pathetic. I felt bad for Seattle getting robbed last night and I hate Seattle because of the Saints season ending a few times at their hands. Poor refereeing has been a running theme of the NFL for a while and it is getting pretty tiring. It is almost 2020 and we still have a chain gang and the game being covered by 50+ year old slow referees that can't keep up with the speed of the game trying to rush up and make a call they thought they saw while getting in position.

It should have been reviewed but then it became even more of a problem due to shitty clock management. Seattle did a lot to win that game and at the same time did some pretty stupid stuff to lose it. The problem is Seattle should have had more chances to fuck it up by being first and goal at the 1 after that PI.

[Darththeo]

Why are both AFC Wild card games on Saturday? That is some BS.

Anyway:

Titans over the Patriots: 31 to 10
Texans over the Bills: 24 to 20

Saints over the Vikings: 31 to 30
Seahawks over Eagles: 34 to 17

The Ravens over Titans.
Texans upset the Chiefs.

49'ers barely beating the Seahawks
Packers over the Saints.

49'ers over the Packers.
Texans upset the Ravens.

49'ers over the Texans in the Super Bowl.

Note: This is more what I see/hope happens.

[ProphetFlume]

Why are both AFC Wild card games on Saturday? That is some BS.

Because time zones - it's earlier than sunday.

[downnola]

Texans upset the Chiefs.

Packers over the Saints.

hahahahahahaha

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Rumor is Ron Rivera is top choice for the Redskins job, and that it's Rivera's top choice as well. Could happen as early as tomorrow.

Redskins picked up a gem. If anyone can turn that dumpster fire around it's Rivera.

[Espo]

Why are both AFC Wild card games on Saturday? That is some BS.

Note: This is more what I see/hope happens.

A little bit of an emphasis on hope with those Titans picks seeing as they're going off anywhere from like 70/1 to 100/1 odds, and pretty comfortably have the worst odds of any playoff team. According to Vegas at least.

[eschatological]

-snip-.

I'm sorry, are you arguing that holding and late hits should also be reviewable?

How long have you been a football fan? Cause for a long as hell time, you just had to live with the decisions of the refs who are, gasp, human beings. As long as they're not malicious or overtly biased, it doesn't matter. Hell, from '92 to '98 there wasn't even replay, who knows what the fuck was missed in that era. There's no use crying over spilled milk.

The game has slowed down massively. And it is less enjoyable than watching it in the 90s. I think that's pretty much the opinion of anyone who grew up watching football in the 80s and 90s. Ironically, those teams were much more run-oriented, yet the game seemed more high paced than it is now.

I don't watch CFB, or the CFL, so I'd want to see how it works before commenting on it. I *do* watch the EPL, and their implementation of VAR has absolutely been a major problem that massively undercuts the game - and they generally only review scoring plays and potential red cards.

I just don't understand this philosophy of "I want every call to be called right." Yeah, sure, that's a nice sentiment, in a theoretical world that's great. But even looking at that non-review last night, if they had reviewed it, they could have easily said both players were hand fighting and upheld the non-call on the field.


Also, video review of ball placement or two feet in bounds is not the same thing as review of PI. Sure, maybe you have an out of position ref who misses a blatant PI because of where he's standing. But the majority of them are trying to litigate whether it was "enough" contact to "hinder" a WR attempting to "catch a catchable ball" and that the defender wasn't "playing for his right to the ball" as well. That's like, four subjective valuations that need to be made in one play. A ref can easily miss a toe tap, and likewise, replay can easily adjudicate it because there's no subjectivity to it: "Did he get both feet down in bounds, yes or no?"

[draynay]

So our opinion is diminished in your eyes because we are Saints fans, and yours is better because you say "most" fans agree with you? Maybe you could try actually engaging in real discussion here instead of this flimsy petty internet bullshit. Maybe try treating people like people and not just dismiss what they have to say when you personally disagree? I don't care how many imaginary people must surely agree with you in your mind where I'm sure you win all your shower arguments, things go differently when other people's minds are present, as much as you'd like to dismiss and marginalize them arbitrarily. I'm trying to be civil with you because you're a moderator and I can't just put you on ignore like the typical internet asshole, its a real hassle.

Redskins picked up a gem. If anyone can turn that dumpster fire around it's Rivera.

Which is to say, no one can. Not a good choice for Rivera to take that job IMO.

[eschatological]

So our opinion is diminished in your eyes because we are Saints fans, and yours is better because you say "most" fans agree with you? Maybe you could try actually engaging in real discussion here instead of this flimsy petty internet bullshit. Maybe try treating people like people and not just dismiss what they have to say when you personally disagree? I don't care how many imaginary people must surely agree with you in your mind where I'm sure you win all your shower arguments, things go differently when other people's minds are present, as much as you'd like to dismiss and marginalize them arbitrarily. I'm trying to be civil with you because you're a moderator and I can't just put you on ignore like the typical internet asshole, its a real hassle.



Which is to say, no one can. Not a good choice for Rivera to take that job IMO.

I'm saying that the main impetus to change the rule last year was Saints fans, and the Saints coach, as if it was the first time a non-PI call affected a game. It wasn't. There've been bad calls for as long as there's been football. And they've been trying to find a balance between no replay, and the unlimited replay available shortly before the challenge system was implemented. And the challenge system is the result of that. This rule swings the pendulum towards too much replay.

Literally during the offseason, before the league meetings, no one thought any changes were going to be made to replay because of the pitfalls it could potentially introduce. And then Sean Payton (Peyton? I can never remember how he spells it) steamrolled the PI review through the competition committee. The only way they could handcuff it without Payton throwing a fit was by giving it a probationary 1 year trial period. It's fairly widely known that it was New Orleans who pushed the rule through.

[Vetali]

Apparently things have been progressing slower than expected for Ron Rivera. Maybe Jerry rung him up, or Snyder wanting to build around Haskins is causing some turbulence.



For a coach that most players praise, this is the ultimate insult for Winston.

[eschatological]

Rumors on Twitter that the entire Cowboys staff was fired, rather than waiting for Garrett's contract to end on January 14th.

NFC East officially in chaos.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Giants refusing to clean house, and apparently it's making them much less desirable on the market.

Honestly they feel like Ron Rivera or bust at this point. He's about the last guy left for their "the process." IDK what other old Coughlin assistants are left that haven't been put through the wringer.

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Rumors on Twitter that the entire Cowboys staff was fired, rather than waiting for Garrett's contract to end on January 14th.

NFC East officially in chaos.

Jerry probably already knows he's landing Urban Meyer.