Minimum Wage Cranks: Wrong About Seattle

[Endus]

Prior to him posting that, everyone kept popping into the thread saying minimum wage hikes are always good with no calculation of what actually makes it good or bad.

That's a lie. It's the straw man you invented to derail discussion.

Doesnt matter. Its still not fair to people who worked their ass off for years to get promotions and raises to get to where they are making $15 an hour and now high school shlubs getting their first job now start at $15.00 right away. I still say if they raise minimum wage by $5 an hour, then EVERYONE should get a raise equal to the difference between the old minimum wage and new minimum wage to make it fair, so people dont feel like they wasted years of hard work

That basically happens as people adjust to the new minimum wage. It's happened every time the minimum wage has been bumped in the past. You're arguing against something you made up, which is at odds to observable history.

[Endus]

OH it's a lie, lol? You really need to stop throwing that little three letter word around that you don't know the meaning of.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post50866391

Since I did not make the argument you claim in the post that you just linked, I stand by my assertion that you're lying.

[cuafpr]

let cities and in some cases states handle it, its how it should be. imagine if the national min wage was set to what it would take for NY.. you would kill small towns in a heart beat...

[Acidbaron]

Considering how poorly the US economy goes under a Republican leadership it is hardly surprising that these people would rile against injections in an consumption based industry.

The reality is, they enforce short term plans that financially benefit themselves and their benefactors, what never has been the largest segment of their voting base. Oh well these people are luckily being killed off by age and poor healthcare coverage every year.

[Endus]

Prior to him posting that, everyone kept popping into the thread saying minimum wage hikes are always good with no calculation of what actually makes it good or bad.

That's a lie. It's the straw man you invented to derail discussion.

OH it's a lie, lol? You really need to stop throwing that little three letter word around that you don't know the meaning of.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post50866391

Since I did not make the argument you claim in the post that you just linked, I stand by my assertion that you're lying.

I didn't claim you made an argument, I claimed that you failed to make an argument. You need to read better.

There's the full conversation. You did claim I made that argument. You claimed people were making that case in the first post, I said that was a lie, you quoted me not making that argument as if it proved I had, I confirmed that you were lying, you protested you weren't trying to claim I was making that argument, which is another lie.

I'm not wasting more time with you. Stop trying to bait people with dishonest malarky.

[Yelmurc]

Considering how poorly the US economy goes under a Republican leadership it is hardly surprising that these people would rile against injections in an consumption based industry.

The reality is, they enforce short term plans that financially benefit themselves and their benefactors, what never has been the largest segment of their voting base. Oh well these people are luckily being killed off by age and poor healthcare coverage every year.

Well liberal people tend to have less children so its a race!

100 unrelated liberal adults have 147 children, while 100 unrelated conservatives have 208 kids

No wonder they want more illegal immigrants

[Acidbaron]

The funny thing is that a large part of why these minimum wage hikes haven't been as big of a disaster as they could have been has been because of a flourishing economy under Republican leadership. But please, go on...

It has to be nice to reside in a state of mind where you eat your own bullshit for breakfast, lunch and dinner. However you are free to name all those republican policies that lead to economic growth do attach the actual growth numbers to them.

I know you won't since there aren't any

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Well liberal people tend to have less children so its a race!

100 unrelated liberal adults have 147 children, while 100 unrelated conservatives have 208 kids

No wonder they want more illegal immigrants

Just because they are born from conservative parents it doesn't mean they'll follow in their footsteps. Especially when their policies hurt them on several layers.

[Yelmurc]

It has to be nice to reside in a state of mind where you eat your own bullshit for breakfast, lunch and dinner. However you are free to name all those republican policies that lead to economic growth do attach the actual growth numbers to them.

I know you won't since there aren't any

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Just because they are born from conservative parents it doesn't mean they'll follow in their footsteps. Especially when their policies hurt them on several layers.

You do know that part of your political leanings are purely genetic right.

[Acidbaron]

You do know that part of your political leanings are purely genetic right.

And you got anything to back that actually up? You are telling me genes matter more in discovering your political views, than education and upbringing, your current situation, your age etc?

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Why do I need to do any of that? Do we have a flourishing economy? Check. Do we have Republican leadership? Check.

I know this is big brain stuff we're talking about here, but you're the one that made a bullshit post that was easily refutable.

So you can't refute anything, thanks for playing as usual

[Yelmurc]

And you got anything to back that actually up? You are telling me genes matter more in discovering your political views, than education and upbringing, your current situation, your age etc?

5 second google search

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...be-hard-wired/

[Acidbaron]

5 second google search

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...be-hard-wired/

Its a study that suggests that it might be so, it also is based on a survey from twins. So i would have the read the entire thing what i'm not going to do right now of how gene's had a larger impact considering the twins grew up under the same conditions.

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You started talking shit about Republicans leading poor economies, in the middle of a reality that is exactly the opposite of that. Are you off your meds?

Obama's policies are still in place for the largest part. I look at economies over a period of time, Republicans have been great at introducing short term gains that are catastrophic over a longer period of time.

I know this triggers you, so let me say this one more time, Republicans are terrible at managing the economy.

[Yelmurc]

Its a study that suggests that it might be so, it also is based on a survey from twins. So i would have the read the entire thing what i'm not going to do right now of how gene's had a larger impact considering the twins grew up under the same conditions.

since you are lazy

To disentangle the effects of nature and nurture, researchers conduct a series of comparisons. They first determine how closely correlated the attitudes of identical twins are on a particular measure, say whether they identify themselves as strong conservatives, strong liberals or somewhere in-between. Then they do the same with fraternal twin pairs. Finally, they compare the two correlations.

If identical twins are significantly more alike in their views than fraternal twins, that’s strong evidence pointing to a genetic basis for the attitude. Moreover, these comparisons can also pinpoint which attitudes are due to their shared environment (a term which includes parental and other family influences that make family members similar to each other) and also which ones are shaped by unique individual factors—basically everything else that can shape political views.

The twins used in Funk and her colleagues’ study were all born from 1947 to 1956 (a subset of the larger twins sample). They were asked batteries of questions that measured personality traits, social and political values and political ideology. A total of 1,192 respondents who were part of a matched twin pair were surveyed by researchers in 2008 and 2009.

They found that somewhat more than half of the difference in self-identified political ideology (56%) is explained by genetic factors. The remainder was explained by unique factors affecting one twin and not the other. A second measure of ideology based on 27 questions produced a similar result (genes appeared to explain 58% of the difference between individuals).

[Acidbaron]

since you are lazy

Being lazy forces you to actually post directly what you are talking about, guess i need to be lazy more often considering the positive effect, in any case thanks for the direct citation.

Does state it's slightly over half, what leaves quite a bit of room still. It also takes people born from the golden age, you know the lucky baby boomers. Will be interesting to see if said theory holds up over time.

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Specifically which of Obama's policies? Please attach growth numbers relevant to the time frame we're talking about.

But please, keep on thinking that Trump is getting no credit for the economy. I'm hoping that this unbelievable idiocy gobsmacks the shit out of leftists around the world when Trump is re-elected in 2020 for exactly that reason.

Don't be so mad, but why should i do what you refuse to do.

Nope, Trump takes no credit for the economy please add actually policies and growth numbers

Ah, poor soul thinking that everyone disagreeing with them is a "leftist" a juvenile term for those unable to article arguments

[Yelmurc]

Being lazy forces you to actually post directly what you are talking about, guess i need to be lazy more often considering the positive effect, in any case thanks for the direct citation.

Does state it's slightly over half, what leaves quite a bit of room still. It also takes people born from the golden age, you know the lucky baby boomers. Will be interesting to see if said theory holds up over time.

I never said it was 100% of one leanings but it doesn't take someone with a degree in mathematics to know that if its a race in populations and one set of genetics in outbreeding another the total political leanings of said population would shift over time.

[Acidbaron]

I never said it was 100% of one leanings but it doesn't take someone with a degree in mathematics to know that if its a race in populations and one set of genetics in outbreeding another the total political leanings of said population would shift over time.

We'll see i suppose, so far it does seem to be that the youth is in the democrats favour.

[Yelmurc]

We'll see i suppose, so far it does seem to be that the youth is in the democrats favour.

Youth are always more liberal when they are young, Once they get mortgages they tend to shift to the right.

Also see this article.

Generation Z is more conservative than Millennials

https://www.theamericanconservative....ghtward-drift/

[Acidbaron]

I always get a little giggle out of folks who make a bad point, get called out, and then start asking other folks for evidence. You were the original person who came in saying some shit about poor economies under Republican leadership, when anyone with the faculty of most of their senses knows that we're currently under Republican leadership and doing very well economically. There is no citation needed for anything I said to you. You should just realize you made a poorly timed idiotic statement, like any reasonable person would. But instead, you double down and ask for evidence of an easily observable fact. Me asking the same thing back to you about growth numbers, etc. should have been an obvious dig at your idiocy. I don't need citations from you, I already know that you're wrong.

Okay whatever makes you sleep better at night darling

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Youth are always more liberal when they are young, Once they get mortgages they tend to shift to the right.

Also see this article.

Generation Z is more conservative than Millennials

https://www.theamericanconservative....ghtward-drift/

I'll read it but you'll have to forgive me for being highly sceptical when a site aimed at conservatives claims the youth is more on their side

[Yelmurc]

Okay whatever makes you sleep better at night darling

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I'll read it but you'll have to forgive me for being highly sceptical when a site aimed at conservatives claims the youth is more on their side

Don't worry they have plenty of sources to back up their claims.

[d00mGuArD]

Let's say you make widgets, which sell for $1.
Let's say you're paying people $7.50/hour, and the minimum wage is set to $15.
Before the hike, they could afford 7.5 widgets for every hour they worked.
Let's say your wage costs are 70% of your total price point, which is enormously high (restaurants typically operate in the 20-30% range, and they trend high).
This means out of every widget, $0.70 went to pay salaries.
Let's also say every single employee was at the same salary, which won't be true in practice, but this makes the argument worse for me, because the wage hike affects more of your price point.

So, the doubling of your wage costs means instead of costing you $0.70 per widget, it's costing you $1.40. To maintain everything else, you keep the remaining $0.30; your total price is now $1.70 per widget, and profits are the same; you've passed the cost along to customers.

Now, let's look at how many widgets your employees could buy per hour of work. Remember, before, it was 7.5 widgets per hour. Now, at $15/hour in wages, and $1.70/widget, they can afford about 8.8 widgets per hour of work.

Their purchasing power has increased.

The only way this could work out differently is if more than 100% of your price point was wages, meaning not only are you making no profits, you're losing money. Otherwise, 100% will always be higher than whatever percentage of your price point goes to wages.

Hence, mathematical impossibility. This is basic shit. I assume you don't work in accounting at your firm.

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Then your source is wrong.

Here's info about running a restaurant; https://upserve.com/restaurant-insid...es-restaurant/

Labor costs should be 20-30% of gross revenues. Your source, by your own claim, sets the lower bound at 40%. Either you're reading it wrong, or your source is wrong.

You were making 30% profit, and now making 17% profit. Which is a small profit margin. You increased your company's risk
You are no longer paying 70% of the price point to wages (which was enormously high!) you are paying more than 80% to wages (it became more ridiculous)

I have not heard of anyone having a set amount as profit ($0.3 in your example). Anyone I know is using percentage.
You will probably want to maintain your profit percentage and your wage cost percentage, and put the price at $2

[Bullettime]

You were making 30% profit, and now making 17% profit. Which is a small profit margin. You increased your company's risk
You are no longer paying 70% of the price point to wages (which was enormously high!) you are paying more than 80% to wages (it became more ridiculous)

I have not heard of anyone having a set amount as profit ($0.3 in your example). Anyone I know is using percentage.
You will probably want to maintain your profit percentage and your wage cost percentage, and put the price at $2

Except the increase in buying power among consumers will mean you'll likely still keep your profit because more people can afford to spend at your place. Local restaurants and small business are the main benefactors of increased buying power. Companies like Wal-Mart are the ones who lose out.

This is what people against wage increases keep ignoring. Money at the top gets rolled into stock and offshore accounts. Money at the bottom circulates damn near immediately. Will the local Chinese place have to pay workers more? Yeah. But they'll appreciate a large uptick in sales when more people can afford to eat there once a week instead of once in a blue moon.