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  1. #1

    Thermal Void is more fun and not really behind

    Simming myself for all the things, thermal void is +-1%.

    Why is everyone pursuing only GS? Thermal void is even more fun to play and you don't have to wait and first fish for proccs if you're unlucky. Mobility is also great.

  2. #2
    Bloodsail Admiral Fayenoor's Avatar
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    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/21

    Given how low frost mages are in that list; going for fun over throughput might not be a bad idea. Since we are the lowest DPS casters in the game (all 3 specs), playing for fun seems to be more important here.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Fayenoor View Post
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/21

    Given how low frost mages are in that list; going for fun over throughput might not be a bad idea. Since we are the lowest DPS casters in the game (all 3 specs), playing for fun seems to be more important here.
    Right? I'm like constantly mid to lower of the pack. No matter what. Might as well take the more active spec to play.

    And the GS gameplay is just the ultimate boredom. I've spent a whole day playing with thermal void and I can still manage the +10s and heroic pugs for full clears.



    I mean, 10 dps difference
    https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/repo...EcegHHEDjtqzZM
    Last edited by StayTuned; 2019-02-19 at 07:30 PM.

  4. #4
    TV performing close to, or better than GS depends on the traits you have. If you have 3xFF, 1xTOI, etc, TV is not gonna be close.

    Also, I suspect the whole expansion playing TV (legion) has soured some mages on it.

  5. #5
    The Lightbringer Lollis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fayenoor View Post
    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/21

    Given how low frost mages are in that list; going for fun over throughput might not be a bad idea. Since we are the lowest DPS casters in the game (all 3 specs), playing for fun seems to be more important here.
    It's the main reason I mainly play fire. When you look at destro and shadowpriests it's an absolute joke. My only solace is that arcane is total shit too so it means I don't have to play a completely braindead spec.

    This little gem was posted in the DK thread with them complaining about the state of DK dps (which is also garbage atm):

    The difference in DPS is NEGLIGIBLE. You're crying about 15% difference at best (not counting the top one because there will always be an exception)
    15% Difference is fucking huge.
    Speciation Is Gradual

  6. #6
    https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/repo...V3snKaZHDKdH8T

    i lose 700 dps, not worth it at all.

    also, youre simming with reorigination array stacks and weekly which is wrong

    i just resimmed your talents:

    https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/repo...GgLzgjLCiW681x
    Last edited by kheath812; 2019-02-20 at 08:09 AM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by kheath812 View Post
    https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/repo...V3snKaZHDKdH8T

    i lose 700 dps, not worth it at all.

    also, youre simming with reorigination array stacks and weekly which is wrong

    i just resimmed your talents:

    https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/repo...GgLzgjLCiW681x
    huh must have missed that. 0,7% is still within margin of error and even with perfect play, GS is just boring.
    But 700 dps is quite a bit more than 200.
    Last edited by StayTuned; 2019-02-20 at 09:29 AM.

  8. #8
    I quite prefer GS and find it a lot more interesting than spamming Ice Lance. I think it is very satisfying building up a huge chunk and smashing it into stuff's face.

    Especially considering that if it is not boss it freezes them, allowing for ice lance followup even without a brain freeze. Not only a damage spike but also utility by freezing two targets. For example if they chase a player or yourself, as it is in some boss fights. Or if tank tries to kitte adds.

    Thermal Void is bound to a 3 minute cooldown, while I can throw GS every few seconds, filling in an otherwise very monotonous rotation. It is especially useful on boss adds you can cleave (and wont have your 3 min cd), such as Jaina or Blockade. You have an almost on demand huge hit.

    Not to mention it is extremely useful in M+ where you cleave, freeze and ice lance almost non stop. A 3min CD is more than lacking in such scenario.

    Simple RNG mechanics or a playstyle mistake can easily jeopardize the Icy Veins optimal usage, whereas you can hold onto building a GS and hold onto releasing it, if need be. An Icy Veins just expires regardless. That coupled with already better mathematical performance make GS a nobrainer.

    One of the main reasons Arcane (which has stronger single target) and Fire are underperforming accross the board - they are 10s wonders tied to cooldowns and standing in RoP, which can be jeopardized in a real setting and your entire output is ruined.

    All TV is is spam on long cooldown. It doesn't enrich the playstyle, it is lower damage, it is not versatyle, it isn't visually impressive, it lacks utility. All things GS offers.

    Besides if I wanted the spam I'd go Hunter.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Trumpcat View Post
    I quite prefer GS and find it a lot more interesting than spamming Ice Lance. I think it is very satisfying building up a huge chunk and smashing it into stuff's face.

    Especially considering that if it is not boss it freezes them, allowing for ice lance followup even without a brain freeze. Not only a damage spike but also utility by freezing two targets. For example if they chase a player or yourself, as it is in some boss fights. Or if tank tries to kitte adds.

    Thermal Void is bound to a 3 minute cooldown, while I can throw GS every few seconds, filling in an otherwise very monotonous rotation. It is especially useful on boss adds you can cleave (and wont have your 3 min cd), such as Jaina or Blockade. You have an almost on demand huge hit.

    Not to mention it is extremely useful in M+ where you cleave, freeze and ice lance almost non stop. A 3min CD is more than lacking in such scenario.

    Simple RNG mechanics or a playstyle mistake can easily jeopardize the Icy Veins optimal usage, whereas you can hold onto building a GS and hold onto releasing it, if need be. An Icy Veins just expires regardless. That coupled with already better mathematical performance make GS a nobrainer.

    One of the main reasons Arcane (which has stronger single target) and Fire are underperforming accross the board - they are 10s wonders tied to cooldowns and standing in RoP, which can be jeopardized in a real setting and your entire output is ruined.

    All TV is is spam on long cooldown. It doesn't enrich the playstyle, it is lower damage, it is not versatyle, it isn't visually impressive, it lacks utility. All things GS offers.

    Besides if I wanted the spam I'd go Hunter.
    I see where you're coming from but ultimately GS can be used with brainfreeze procc only, unless you're able to shatter comb it. Which on bosses you usually cannot.
    More often than not have I found myself waiting for that brainfreeze like a moron, sitting on GS, so talk about shitty rng ruining your day.

    Really, how is GS not monotonous? All you do is literally spam frostbolt until you have your proccs for GS with the occasional icelance inbetween.

    If you're talking about cleave, ice lance feels stronger as well. GS needs build up and a shatter to work. I mean, you're not just taking TV and sticking to the GS spec. You go 2211121 and enjoy almost constant finger and brain proccs.

    GS also forces you to stay still for ~2,7 seconds. If something is thrown on top of your ass and you need to move you have to think twice if you want to finish that cast. TV allows for move freedom of movement through many instant proccs and is not as punishing, if at all, on cast cancel.

    Overall I just have the feeling that TV is more constant throughput, while GS has too many spikes for my liking.

  10. #10
    Some people prefer the animation or the concentrated damage aspect of it, like when you're priority target switching

    Personally not a big fan either though, as I liked using BF procs as they came. Was more mobility. Mobility is more fun to me. But yeah, enjoyment is completely subjective so people are allowed to like what they want, no point debating it much really.

    I wish TV was a thing again for me, but it's nowhere close with the 3x FF + 1 TOV no ice lance mastery stack GS build

  11. #11
    Immortal Nikkaszal's Avatar
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    I love GS, its the most fun part of Frost for me. In a spec which is traditionally "machine gun", having a spell which does absurdly large amounts of damage is hugely satisfying.
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  12. #12
    When Splitting Ice can be utilized, this is where GS really shines. I assume you are simming single target though, with CmS?

    If you want a single target dps increase, then play Fire with Wildfire or Arcane with Equipoise. Will almost always sim higher than Frost.

  13. #13
    Fire hasn't really simmed higher than Frost after wildfire was nerfed

  14. #14
    Why play GS? 150-200k GS hits..that's why. Plus on something like rastakhan, you can time a GS, 2xIL combo to annihilate the zombie totem, that is extremely satisfying. There is a number of situations that might sim a dps loss, but is actually beneficial to the raid because of the timing of the damage.

  15. #15
    I completely agree with OP. I hate the GS build, and have simmed over and over and the only time GS build outperforms my Lonely winter/TV/SI build is straight 2 target patchwork cleave. Even then it's less than 2%. TV build wins in all other sims. The more important part though is that I can compete anyway with the locks/sp, etc in my raid. I use my utility and and have way more fun spamming BF and FoF procs while being much more mobile. That is just more fun for me personally. It also is more forgiving for any fights where you have movement b/c your not sitting there casting GS or having to move in the middle of casting GS because suddenly you're targeted by boss. The increased movement also makes dealing with mechanics easier which is important while progressing.

  16. #16
    Herald of the Titans CptEgo's Avatar
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    Hahaha, no it's not more fun than GS holy shit. How can you even say that.

  17. #17
    Issue is, last talent row has very boring and uninteresting talent options besides GS, they should rework TV and that ray of ice or whatever its called into something more interesting

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by CptEgo View Post
    Hahaha, no it's not more fun than GS holy shit. How can you even say that.
    I don't know? Because fun is a subjective thing maybe?

  19. #19
    Warchief Eace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StayTuned View Post
    SNIP

    GS also forces you to stay still for ~2,7 seconds. If something is thrown on top of your ass and you need to move you have to think twice if you want to finish that cast. TV allows for move freedom of movement through many instant proccs and is not as punishing, if at all, on cast cancel.

    Overall I just have the feeling that TV is more constant throughput, while GS has too many spikes for my liking.
    That's what Shimmer is for.

    Personally, I've always loved a caster spec where I have a massive nuke I can drop from time to time. That's why I prefer GS.
    "We don't care what people say, we know the truth. Enough is enough with this horse s***. I am not a freak, I was born with my free gun. Don't tell me I'm less than my freedom."

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by CptEgo View Post
    Hahaha, no it's not more fun than GS holy shit. How can you even say that.
    Sometimes sitting on a BF proc until your next GS or sitting on GS until you get a BF proc feels restrictive.

    I played IV randomly in a heroic or low M+ a couple weeks ago. It just "felt" better. I love the big GS damage, but I dislike everything else that comes with it.
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