Do you think Blizz makes WoW bad intentionally?

[misterrium]

hey guys so I was thinking that we all agree that thers a decline in quality and other things. Not gonna start another databe how BFA sucks but I now think that blizz wants to make it bad so that they can lessen the resources from the game and lets focus on future maybe with minimum cost to wow. So that way the bad design could be an excuse for the players to leave the WoW ship and blizz can do more and more less to the WoW?

[thilicen]

That's honestly the dumbest thing I've heard in quite some time.

[Niffo]

I have what you're smoking please.

[ArenaDk]

I don’t agree. I think the qualit went up. Don’t speak for others mate

[ceall]

They're intentionally using 2 separate development teams to be able to work on multiple expansions at once. Note: I said development teams not entire teams.

That being said, one team is able to produce good expansions (with some flaws) like legion and mop, while the other team produces expansions like wod and bfa.

The a team finds new and good stuff, while the b team takes what the a team has made, and changes it to the worse.

[Sezh]

I'll have whatever OP's having, them delusions seem trippy af

[Sencha]

Not intentionally but with BfA they clearly reduced development costs and copy pasted a lot of things from Legion with minor adjustments.

My guess is they expected players to not realize it.

[Mormolyce]

No, it's just been a decade and a half since it came out, and games get old.

Plus it's a sub-based MMO, and they went extinct like 5 years ago. It's a miracle it still exists.

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Not intentionally but with BfA they clearly reduced development costs and copy pasted a lot of things from Legion with minor adjustments.

This happens every second expansion, more or less. They create new systems, get them working, and since they're working why not continue to use them? You can't completely innovate the whole game every two years.

[Monster Hunter]

hey guys so I was thinking that we all agree that thers a decline in quality and other things. Not gonna start another databe how BFA sucks but I now think that blizz wants to make it bad so that they can lessen the resources from the game and lets focus on future maybe with minimum cost to wow. So that way the bad design could be an excuse for the players to leave the WoW ship and blizz can do more and more less to the WoW?

Erm yes, technically, but they don't think it's bad, the problem is, is what they think people want from an MMORPG isn't what most people want from an MMORPG.

I was lucky enough to be involved in a very good break down in another thread, and what came out of that was some clarity for me on why at least I don't like current wow.

And the break down is as follows:

Rpg's or any game with a role playing element, either table top or digital both solo or mmo, can be broken down into 3 fundamentals.

Narrative
Simulation
(And for lack of a better term) gameism

Narrative and simulation are self explanatory, narrative gameplay elements are the quest systems, and the systems that deliver the narrative of the game, simulation is a bit more nuanced, but its essentially the systems that give immursion, freedoms a realism, so like eso's stealing and bounty systems stuff like that, then there gameism which is the regimenting of the game, its the balance and fostering of competitiveness, the limitations on the system that create fair competition between players.

A good rpg find exactly the right balance of those 3 things, specific to its medium, and usually that's with more emphasis on narrative and simulation as most rpg's on the table top or solo have not much need for the gameist elements except for things to not be too broken that it trivialise's the challenges.

The problem with wow and why Alot of people don't like calling it an rpg anymore is, the dynamic has been flipped, wow is primeraly focused on that gameism, hence the minimal talents, freedom and customization of skills, and the theme park nature of how you are pushed through content, it's become to focused on being fair for every one, with the idea that raiding is a competition between guilds and also between players for top dps, top healing, and pvp and m+ leader boards ofc. The whole game funnels into something competitive. Which doesn't gel well at all with many classical rpg elements of freedom of choice to define your charicture and narrative how you want within the world, because that might make you suboptimal for the competitive side of wow.

And this imo has come about due to brain drain, the guys who origonaly designed wow weren't rpg specialist's but they were avid dnd fans and players so had an instinctual grasp of these concepts, that wow dev team is long dead and gone now, the current head of the dev studio ion is a good guy but he's from the back ground of hardcore raiding, to him wow is all about the gameism, I don't know why any one finds it shocking that wow has shed Alot of the extra stuff to focus on easy balance and end came competitive elements under him, because that's what he and likly Alot of the new devs have been brought to belive makes wow a good game, sadly the community disagrees.

[PlazaPlaza]

Speak for yourself dumbfuck, close this thread please and a protip: stop playing or reading about a game what you dislike so much, it saves yourself and other stupid threads to read. Ty

[McNeil]

I think the devs are way out of touch with the community, and are only making decisions based on what makes the most revenue for the company over the enjoyment for the players.

[Mighty Tim]

They want to make a game a grandmother and her grandson both want to play without realizing the concessions needed to make that possible leads to a game neither wants to play.

[Eleccybubb]

Honestly. I don't think there is intent.

But I genuinely don't think the passion for the game from them is there anymore.

[lockybalboa]

No such intent for sure, but the lack of competence and passion is very evident, especially from devs like Ion

[eduwneso]

They're intentionally using 2 separate development teams to be able to work on multiple expansions at once. Note: I said development teams not entire teams.

That being said, one team is able to produce good expansions (with some flaws) like legion and mop, while the other team produces expansions like wod and bfa.

The a team finds new and good stuff, while the b team takes what the a team has made, and changes it to the worse.

So if the A team does something with islands and warfronts and make them incredible next expansion it's new?

I still doubt that there is a A team and B team, but sometimes is just so evident there are indeed two teams, and if that is true, then I'm glad? because the theme I like the most apar from the burning legion is the void, old gods,shadowlands and anything that has to do with it, and if the next expansion is being developed by A team, then I'm hyped as fuck.

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Honestly. I don't think there is intent.

But I genuinely don't think the passion for the game from them is there anymore.

As some people hve said before, there is indeed passion from the developers, the problem resides with the people above them, that limits and commands them

I think that the art and sound team are examples of that, also things like the hivemind, I had quite some fun with my guildmates with it.

[Sethus]

Yes and aliens are helping them.

[eduwneso]

Erm yes, technically, but they don't think it's bad, the problem is, is what they think people want from an MMORPG isn't what most people want from an MMORPG.

I was lucky enough to be involved in a very good break down in another thread, and what came out of that was some clarity for me on why at least I don't like current wow.

And the break down is as follows:

Rpg's or any game with a role playing element, either table top or digital both solo or mmo, can be broken down into 3 fundamentals.

Narrative
Simulation
(And for lack of a better term) gameism

Narrative and simulation are self explanatory, narrative gameplay elements are the quest systems, and the systems that deliver the narrative of the game, simulation is a bit more nuanced, but its essentially the systems that give immursion, freedoms a realism, so like eso's stealing and bounty systems stuff like that, then there gameism which is the regimenting of the game, its the balance and fostering of competitiveness, the limitations on the system that create fair competition between players.

A good rpg find exactly the right balance of those 3 things, specific to its medium, and usually that's with more emphasis on narrative and simulation as most rpg's on the table top or solo have not much need for the gameist elements except for things to not be too broken that it trivialise's the challenges.

The problem with wow and why Alot of people don't like calling it an rpg anymore is, the dynamic has been flipped, wow is primeraly focused on that gameism, hence the minimal talents, freedom and customization of skills, and the theme park nature of how you are pushed through content, it's become to focused on being fair for every one, with the idea that raiding is a competition between guilds and also between players for top dps, top healing, and pvp and m+ leader boards ofc. The whole game funnels into something competitive. Which doesn't gel well at all with many classical rpg elements of freedom of choice to define your charicture and narrative how you want within the world, because that might make you suboptimal for the competitive side of wow.

And this imo has come about due to brain drain, the guys who origonaly designed wow weren't rpg specialist's but they were avid dnd fans and players so had an instinctual grasp of these concepts, that wow dev team is long dead and gone now, the current head of the dev studio ion is a good guy but he's from the back ground of hardcore raiding, to him wow is all about the gameism, I don't know why any one finds it shocking that wow has shed Alot of the extra stuff to focus on easy balance and end came competitive elements under him, because that's what he and likly Alot of the new devs have been brought to belive makes wow a good game, sadly the community disagrees.

I would say I love you, but #nohomo, one of the best, if not the best post I've read in the last months in MMO-C

[Aphrel]

Dunno about bad but ive had a suspicion for quite some time that blizzard is intentionally not tuning classes to have near equal dps (and im talking patchwerk dps here). Because this would be really easy to accomplish and i dont think they are too incompetent to manage it. No, i believe this is an intentional design, shiftning around the meta from teir to teir.

[Thelin]

I think the devs are way out of touch with the community, and are only making decisions based on what makes the most revenue for the company over the enjoyment for the players.

Statements like this make me laugh. Yes a company is going to intentionally churn out a shit product in order to get their player base/customers in such an uproar that they quit/stop subbing. Yeah..that sounds like a working business model.

They carried over features from legions that people liked and yet for some reason save the artifact system being replaced by azerite bfa is pretty much legion 2.0 but with new surroundings/storylines/etc and people for some reason despise this expansion. I don't like Azerite traits and they've made it loud and clear they get that and they're moving on with a newer iteration in 8.2.

People act is if this "Community" is made up of the same 5 people that all like to the the same thing. I guess people forget there are folks that simply like to do different things and not might have a ton of time to devote to the game. Blizzard has given many different player bases the ability to do whatever they want in the game within the time they have. Some people just play WoW for achievements or lore, or pvp or mythic + or raiding.. everybody is different so they've got different pockets of players to cater to so obviously you're not going to like or enjoy or even do some of the stuff they implement because it wasn't meant for you.

[huth]

Dunno about bad but ive had a suspicion for quite some time that blizzard is intentionally not tuning classes to have near equal dps (and im talking patchwerk dps here).

Which isn't a worthwhile tuning goal since there aren't any real patchwork fights and havent been in years. So yes, they likely aren't. Nor should they. It would just put classes better able to handle interruptions in rotation ahead of those that aren't.

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Statements like this make me laugh. Yes a company is going to intentionally churn out a shit product in order to get their player base/customers in such an uproar that they quit/stop subbing. Yeah..that sounds like a working business model.

Well, it does occassionally happen... but the goal is usually to ship some shit that doesn't even get a playerbase to begin with so you can write it off as a loss, and you end up with something closer to Big Rigs: Over the Road Racing than WoW.