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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Bokegu View Post

    - - - Updated - - -



    WoW pve *has* been seasonal since Ulduar hit, though.
    It's just the first time that nomenclature has been used.
    Words mean something though. It feels more immersive to not refer to it that way. Just like X Gladiator's X is a shitty, unimmersive term for an item and has made me hate pvp gear for the last decade.

    I want to play an MMORPG.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Yunaqt View Post
    10's are pretty damn brainless
    You'd be surprised what happens in some of my weekly group finder pugs (timer failing, people rage quitting after a couple of wipes etc). I wish they were chill and brainless, but it's probably because my score isn't high enough to get into potentially stronger groups

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Flamez2 View Post
    make an affix with no trash and line up all the bosses at the beginning please
    literally noone is saying that there shouldn't be trash. I know ur being sarcastic but the issue, for me, that there is too much of it and it's too annoying that it overshadows bosses.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    Words mean something though. It feels more immersive to not refer to it that way. Just like X Gladiator's X is a shitty, unimmersive term for an item and has made me hate pvp gear for the last decade.

    I want to play an MMORPG.
    And no NPC mentions the word season. Replaying instanced content is an OOC activity anyway, how are you clearing the same place more than once in character?
    "Season" offers clarity for when a large constellation of changes are expected to happen. Nothing wrong with it.

  5. #65
    They are too long and too much trash, just like you said. I didn't like M+ in legion but it's even worse now.

    WoD had amazing dungeons, so did Cataclysm. The perfect example dungeon is in my opinion Grimrail Depot. Not too long, not too much annoying trash and THREE bosses, which is the best number.

    ALSO!:

    Right now it's quite boring to play them for another reason, it's just pack-pack-pack-boss-pack-pack etc. You basically take one pack at a time and clear them. What happened to big pulls and massive risks combined with good cooldown usage. What happened to pulling ALL trash to the boss and killing them at the same time, as we saw in Challenge Modes a lot. All the cool stuff like that is gone cause trash is simply too strong and has too much cc as well. This is so stale and boring. Basically only gear will determine the speed. And even with sick gear, it's still never fast and cool like it was for CM.

    When CM became M+, it took away the speedrunning aspect of the game. I mean, the fact that you get loot even if you fail the timer is a joke.

    I mean right now, I watch Musclebrah, the best rogue in M+ and possibly the best M+ group there is right now. They do Manor and has killed 2 bosses and 58% trash and they have been there TWENTYTWO MINUTES. And these are the BEST guys. It's such a snoozefest (not the players fault) I don't know why I watch this. They have 39 minutes to complete it. What happened to 5minute dungeons for Challenge Mode, now that was FUN to watch!
    Last edited by Battlebeard; 2019-02-25 at 01:51 PM.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by seasy View Post
    The thing is not all abilities are scary or deadly.
    m+ would be really boring if you could just aoe spam all the trash and you never take any damage.
    Underrot for example : You don't need to play the small adds, you can skip the big pack on the bridge with invis pots or shroud, you can sidestep the cleave from matrons and interrupt or stun the bloodhexer hell you can even spellsteal the g'huun cast.


    I think it's great and challenging
    Considering they fixed Invis and Shroud about 3months ago, I'm not sure if you even play M+

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Bokegu View Post
    IE aren't popular because they don't hand out gear.
    If IE handed out gear at the same ratio of 5mans, they'd be incredibly popular.
    This. I think more people care about the gear reward than you know, "playing". My characters are at a point where the max m+ chest at the end is not likely to have a reward, but I still enjoy running them, because I enjoy playing my character and playing with friends.
    Felpooti - DH - Echo Isles
    Hack - Warrior - Echo Isles
    Pootie - Hunter - Echo Isles

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Yindoo View Post
    Considering they fixed Invis and Shroud about 3months ago, I'm not sure if you even play M+
    Most of the crybabies don't play

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Yindoo View Post
    Considering they fixed Invis and Shroud about 3months ago, I'm not sure if you even play M+
    Only Matrons see stealth. It is very common to kill Matrons and then stealth the big pack there.

  10. #70
    My biggest issue is that BFA dungeons dont have any breathing room. Super tight hallways packed with trash. Make one wrong step in either direction and you got yourself another pack pulled. Give me Eye of Aszhara, Halls of Valor, Nelths Lair etc any day. Legion dungeons was way more enjoyable just because of this.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post
    Right now it's quite boring to play them for another reason, it's just pack-pack-pack-boss-pack-pack etc. You basically take one pack at a time and clear them. What happened to big pulls and massive risks combined with good cooldown usage. What happened to pulling ALL trash to the boss and killing them at the same time, as we saw in Challenge Modes a lot. All the cool stuff like that is gone cause trash is simply too strong and has too much cc as well. This is so stale and boring. Basically only gear will determine the speed. And even with sick gear, it's still never fast and cool like it was for CM.

    When CM became M+, it took away the speedrunning aspect of the game. I mean, the fact that you get loot even if you fail the timer is a joke.

    I mean right now, I watch Musclebrah, the best rogue in M+ and possibly the best M+ group there is right now. They do Manor and has killed 2 bosses and 58% trash and they have been there TWENTYTWO MINUTES. And these are the BEST guys. It's such a snoozefest (not the players fault) I don't know why I watch this. They have 39 minutes to complete it. What happened to 5minute dungeons for Challenge Mode, now that was FUN to watch!
    If you can pull all trash to the boss and killing them together that's a good indication you are doing trivial content. But if you insist on doing that, you can go and do it in heroic dungeons. Musclebrah can also do it in keys between +10 and +15 (depending on dungeons and affixes) but what is the point in doing that?.. You will see that happen a lot in MDI soon.

  12. #72
    Old God Low Hanging Fruit's Avatar
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    I didnt bother reading any of this.. but let me guess how this thread goes..

    you wrong

    you right

    you dumb

    you dumber

    you wrong

    you right

    they right

    they wrong

    blah blah
    Last edited by Sonnillon; 2019-02-26 at 06:11 AM. Reason: Infracted

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Irefusetodie View Post
    I feel like they tried very, very, very hard to turn M+ into an esport
    This. Esports are a cancer. I'm glad the Morhaimes are gone.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    Q: Why was the anti-vaxxer's 4 year old child crying? A: Midlife crisis.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by ID811717 View Post
    If you can pull all trash to the boss and killing them together that's a good indication you are doing trivial content. But if you insist on doing that, you can go and do it in heroic dungeons. Musclebrah can also do it in keys between +10 and +15 (depending on dungeons and affixes) but what is the point in doing that?.. You will see that happen a lot in MDI soon.
    That's the point, it should be doable at the highest level, like 20+ keys as well, cause it was doable for the Challenge Modes, which was the highest level back then. Challenge Modes weren't trivial and it doesn't have to be trivial now either. Though I guess it comes down more to class design than dungeon design, or at least 50/50.

    It's hard to balance, but all I know is that Challenge Modes were really fun to play and maybe even more fun to watch. And M+ does not live up to the enjoyment of CMs.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    This. Esports are a cancer. I'm glad the Morhaimes are gone.
    Care to explain why? I think E-sport is absolutely fantastic, I never miss any tournament for WoW, Counter-Strike, Overwatch and a few other games. :O

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Jester Joe View Post
    but you can get Freehold done even faster than Maw was ever done in my opinion.
    That's just untrue, it's not an opinion thing, no one is close to doing freehold faster than you could do MoS.

    MoS was literally pull all trash to the boss, aoe it down with boss.
    Pull all trash to 2nd boss, kill it, kill boss.
    Pull all trash to 3rd boss, kill it, kill boss.

    There is no opinion to give here, it's purely fact that MoS was significantly faster.
    Looking it up (cbf posting a screenshot, but it was on the 4,279th page of timed runs for freehold) The fastest 10 was done in 17minutes and 43 seconds.
    MDI MoS time trials were 7minutes 30seconds, ofc no one has pushed freehold that hard, so even if we were to double that time, it's still faster than Freehold (Though the time trials were on a higher key level than the loot cap, and 12minute runs were pretty common not even as a particularly fast run)

    Hell, the timer just to 3 chest a MoS was 14minutes. Unless you're saying no one ever 3 chested a MoS? Or that +10 Freeholds are commonly done in under 14minutes? (Can't find the record for last tier, maybe that's your proof)
    Last edited by Emerald Archer; 2019-02-26 at 02:16 AM.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post
    That's the point, it should be doable at the highest level, like 20+ keys as well, cause it was doable for the Challenge Modes, which was the highest level back then. Challenge Modes weren't trivial and it doesn't have to be trivial now either.
    What about +40? Should it be possible in +40 as well?
    The +20 right now is insanely harder than Challenge Modes back in the day. There is a reason no player in the world completed all dungeons even on +19 in time yet.

    If speed runs float your boat, go for the appropriate key levels. Start low and push up. Speed runs require different class comps and different player skills compared to pushing high keys. You can be the first-comer in this field, develop the tactics, popularize the meta, and be the new big streamer.

  17. #77
    every time they try to make something some esport it gets ruined. just like pvp.

  18. #78
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post
    That's the point, it should be doable at the highest level, like 20+ keys as well, cause it was doable for the Challenge Modes, which was the highest level back then. Challenge Modes weren't trivial and it doesn't have to be trivial now either. Though I guess it comes down more to class design than dungeon design, or at least 50/50.
    BY DEFINITION if you can pull everything and AOE it down, you're doing content that's trivial. That's what the meaning of the word IS. You cannot meaningfully argue that you should be able to do that but ".. it doesn't have to be trivial now..".

    the entire point of M+ really is to keep scaling so the content is never trivial... which means you should never outgear it so much that you can pull the entire thing and live.

  19. #79
    The Lightbringer gutnbrg's Avatar
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    its weird that so many people complain about m+...the only people any M+ is difficult on are healers and tanks.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Battlebeard View Post
    Challenge Modes weren't trivial and it doesn't have to be trivial now either. Though I guess it comes down more to class design than dungeon design, or at least 50/50.
    Just to make a side comment here, it was mostly them not scaling sockets/trinkets well and lots of skips being found out, but by the later half of MoP and WoD you had boosters selling double AFK carries. I don't have specifics but I'm guessing like 1/3 of MoP CMs were just bought back then, maybe even more, as boosters here claimed to have run hundreds or even a thousand people (and made 3k/month supporting their families in third world countries, or so people posted here anyway)

    They were still fun to do legitimately though. It's just they had such a wide timeframe that they became easy after a few months. Those xmog sets were dope and I look back on the experience fondly. And yeah, the trash wasn't all that annoying like BFA dungeons were (getting back on topic here)

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