Sylvanas loses the horde and the forsaken,but survives and recoups lead the San'layn

[Beloren]

So we know they're not killing her, she will likely lose the Warchief mantle, and leader of the forsaken....but she could come back as leader of the San'layn elves./darkfallen

What you think?

[Gurluas]

Could work. It fits her to be with evil Elves and she can be used as an evil character without impacting the Horde anymore.

[mickybrighteyes]

i think ther are even less San'layn than any other group unless they shit out some more of them somehow.

Weren't they all a specific expedition group that went to northrend at some point and all died that we then proceeded to kill off every single one of note?

[eurojust]

I think Sylvanas isn't the problem here. The problem is the horde being a whole bunch of backstabbing genociders.

[Combatbutler]

i think ther are even less San'layn than any other group unless they shit out some more of them somehow.

Weren't they all a specific expedition group that went to northrend at some point and all died that we then proceeded to kill off every single one of note?

They weren't a real specific group they belonged to the 15% of elves kael took to Outland and later invaded northrend with them, the San'layn are the strongest of those who got separated and didn't make it back to Outland.

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I think Sylvanas isn't the problem here. The problem is the horde being a whole bunch of backstabbing genociders.

The only race in the warcraft universe that isn't responsible for a genocide so far are the gnomes and that is it though.

[Zandalariprelate]

The san'layn are a very small group and if anything Sylvanas will return to some esque redemption or if Arthas ever returns well Sylvanas will be like Maiev into stalking and trying to kill her prey

[vipers]

I think Sylvanas isn't the problem here. The problem is the horde being a whole bunch of backstabbing genociders.

Problem is that many people who play wow does know nothing about honor so you can't expect them to understand what is it when they see it in game

[BlakeArt]

The whole expansion so far drop massive hints about the Shadowlands being the next expac. I think Sylvanas will be the key that connect BFA to that new expac storywise just like Gul'dan was before between WoD and Legion.

[mickybrighteyes]

They weren't a real specific group they belonged to the 15% of elves kael took to Outland and later invaded northrend with them, the San'layn are the strongest of those who got separated and didn't make it back to Outland.

I was under teh impression they were part of a band that wound up in Northrend, Lana'thel was with them. They all died and Arthas went in to raise the bunch and THAT was all the San'layn. No other information was really established on their numbers, they made a leadershp that wound up being repeat bosses in WotLK culminating in being a wing of ICC and then thought to be done after Arthas was replaced until one showed up in BfA with basically no additional backstory.

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Problem is that many people who play wow does know nothing about honor so you can't expect them to understand what is it when they see it in game

I think the problem is too many people trying to use a specific idea of 'honor' as the true definition and going above and beyond making that version shit all over other variants that make sense for a given character.

[Combatbutler]

Problem is that many people who play wow does know nothing about honor so you can't expect them to understand what is it when they see it in game

Honor isn't consistent in wow and as such it is pointless, both sides sack villages for shiny loot as a prime example. Or have built their kingdoms on bloodshed and conquest in the past. I always find it amusing when the Alliance goes on about justice and the horde about honor, both are attributes neither side actually has. Though the horde is of course worse than the Alliance in that regard.

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I was under teh impression they were part of a band that wound up in Northrend, Lana'thel was with them. They all died and Arthas went in to raise the bunch and THAT was all the San'layn. No other information was really established on their numbers, they made a leadershp that wound up being repeat bosses in WotLK culminating in being a wing of ICC and then thought to be done after Arthas was replaced until one showed up in BfA with basically no additional backstory.

They are part of the outland elves, Kael'tjhas himself is in charge of them throughout the whole ordeal in Northrend and later retreats with most of them, only those who were separated from the main army and scattered across the land were hunted down and from these the strongest one became the San'layn.

[Beloren]

i think ther are even less San'layn than any other group unless they shit out some more of them somehow.

Weren't they all a specific expedition group that went to northrend at some point and all died that we then proceeded to kill off every single one of note?

Every undead elf is considered Darkfallen, I don't even know if this is correct, but a very specific cult of them that drinks blood are San'layn, in ICC the darkfallen elves were the ones you fought, their leaders were San'layn Princes and the Queen, Lan'athel.

I'm not sure why people factor in numbers of races .. it clearly means nothing in this world in addition to we have no idea how many of any race is. They just are.

[eurojust]

The only race in the warcraft universe that isn't responsible for a genocide so far are the gnomes and that is it though.

Well so far, yes, the Horde is well known for destroying/raping/genociding everything on its path. Thrall was just an accident.

[Combatbutler]

Well so far, yes, the Horde is well known for destroying/raping/genociding everything on its path. Thrall was just an accident.

It isn't just the horde though the Alliance races just mellowed out over the last few generations, prior they were guilty of the exact same things the horde is doing today driving of other races off or outright wiping them out. Even now they have no problem to ransack third party settlements if they believe something of value can be found there, it is the whole premise of Azerite expeditions for example. Alliance kingdoms are build on bloodshed and conquest, something people constantly like to forget or outright ignore.

The horde is worse than the Alliance that is not up for debate, but the Alliance is dirty as well and anyone moaning about horde honor should also moan about Alliance using such nonsense as justice and honor. Neither side has honor or justice and each time they go on about I can't help but roll my eyes.

[Friendlyimmolation]

They weren't a real specific group they belonged to the 15% of elves kael took to Outland and later invaded northrend with them, the San'layn are the strongest of those who got separated and didn't make it back to Outland.

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The only race in the warcraft universe that isn't responsible for a genocide so far are the gnomes and that is it though.

does it count as genocide if you do it to yourself on accident?

[eurojust]

It isn't just the horde though the Alliance races just mellowed out over the last few generations, prior they were guilty of the exact same things the horde is doing today driving of other races off or outright wiping them out. Even now they have no problem to ransack third party settlements if they believe something of value can be found there, it is the whole premise of Azerite expeditions for example. Alliance kingdoms are build on bloodshed and conquest, something people constantly like to forget or outright ignore.

The horde is worse than the Alliance that is not up for debate, but the Alliance is dirty as well and anyone moaning about horde honor should also moan about Alliance using such nonsense as justice and honor. Neither side has honor or justice and each time they go on about I can't help but roll my eyes.

This might be part of your headcanon where you cherry pick some small scale warcrimes, with individual behaviors. You will never find an equivalent of what the Horde just did at the beginning of BFA. You will never find some equivalent of the bombing of Theramore.
Call me back when the alliance rape a race so badly that they produce rape babies.

[Combatbutler]

does it count as genocide if you do it to yourself on accident?

Kinda tricky I'd say no, but it was their own stupidity that killed off 80% of their people so yeah gnomes are out as well then.

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This might be part of your headcanon where you cherry pick some small scale warcrimes, with individual behaviors. You will never find an equivalent of what the Horde just did at the beginning of BFA. You will never find some equivalent of the bombing of Theramore.
Call me back when the alliance rape a race so badly that they produce rape babies.

Sure thing the humans drove of trolls for thousands of years, wiped out the drust drove troggs and gnolls off to build their kingdoms and settlements. The night elves created a vast empire driving off anything non night elven from the land they claimed in the past, dwarves also stole every piece of land they have today and were quite content to slaughter each other and the trolls, the vast majority of the eredar species decided to set the universe on fire for example.

Your problem is you look at the Alliance and ignore the history of its races, all of them have blood on their hands as I said they mellowed out somewhat in the last generations but it doesn't change the fact that they will drive off other more primitive races if they feel like it.

[daenerys]

This seems highly unlikely given that in BFA Sylvanas recruits the San'layn to help in the war against the alliance, than the alliance proceeds to beat the shit out of the San'layn, and kills nearly all of Sylvanas' San'layn forces.

[Raetary]

there are barely any san'layn left.
if at all.

[Dellis0991]

does it count as genocide if you do it to yourself on accident?

lol if the gnomes ever decide that enough was enough they got the tech to build nukes probably.....those lil guys shouldn't be looked down on.....hehehe.

[Foolicious]

This seems highly unlikely given that in BFA Sylvanas recruits the San'layn to help in the war against the alliance, than the alliance proceeds to beat the shit out of the San'layn, and kills nearly all of Sylvanas' San'layn forces.

Pretty much this. The san'layn where very few to begin with and the alliance killed the last one and everyone that knew how to "make new ones". So there are no darkelves/fallen, however you want to call them, to lead.
But i will enjoy the next ten pages about some sylvanas stuff that has nothing to do with the actual idea