8.1.5 Horde war campaign

[Haytham]

Hello,

So after reading what's up in the upcoming war campaign for the Horde I can't help but wonder what the hell do devs want us to do and why are they giving us the false impression of choice ?

Why on earth am I working with Baine and tricking Nathanos when I clearly chose to follow Sylvanas in the Sylvanas / Saurfang quest chain ?

Everything is inconsistent and makes no sense.

[Super Dickmann]

You will have the option to report Baine to the government. You are still forced to help him go on a Horde soldier killing spree because he's too lazy to pry the bars for Derek's cell, mind.

[Galathir]

Because the frontpage summary is an abbreviated version and if you sided with Sylvanas you'll do the same stuff with Nathanos' knowledge working as a double agent.

Illusion of choice.

[Amaterasu65]

Does it even matter? In the end, Sylvanas will prove herself universally evil, so whatever kind of choice won't matter.

[Daevelian]

Because clearly, you chose poorly.

[Zuben]

Semantically I like that I can choose to work as a double agent rather than an earnest ally to Baine. The choices leading up to the final patch can be like this, but the final choice needs to make actual difference. No more charades or inaction, but standing tall for what you believe in.

[Hellspawn]

So if Sylvanas will be removed somehow, would you guys be fine with loosing all your faction rep and may even be unfriendly with all horde npcs including not beeing able to use horde flight pass. And to get back into the horde you need to grind 100 hours of lv3 mobs which get you slowly back to neutral?

[Malikath]

So if Sylvanas will be removed somehow, would you guys be fine with loosing all your faction rep and may even be unfriendly with all horde npcs including not beeing able to use horde flight pass. And to get back into the horde you need to grind 100 hours of lv3 mobs which get you slowly back to neutral?

man, getting back up to exalted with BB from bloodsail admiral was a hell of a grind.
got a hyacinth macaw.

[Aucald]

Semantically I like that I can choose to work as a double agent rather than an earnest ally to Baine. The choices leading up to the final patch can be like this, but the final choice needs to make actual difference. No more charades or inaction, but standing tall for what you believe in.

I don't think that will happen because the MMORPG model, especially the one WoW uses, can't really support a branching plot like that. I think it is more likely that the devs and writers have created two possible endings as concerns Sylvanas and the Horde, and are using character choices as a kind of secret ballot to determine which path will ultimately be taken - but in the end, it will winnow down to one predetermined course and sequence of events.

I think it might be cool to have a kind of PvP-esque scenario in which Sylvanas loyalists face off with Saurfang supporters on the Horde side - either directly or in a PvE type scenario that differs depending on who you support. But in the end, I think, you'll find we end up with a specific outcome that will be unfortunate to one side or the other.

[Super Dickmann]

I disagree with people saying the choice doesn't matter. Sure, at the end we'll all betray Sylvanas because she's an Old God puppet and take an anal suppository of muh honor from God-King Anduin, but only one option lets me finally, after so many years, help put Baine in prison. That almost makes it worth it.

P.S: I reserve the right to withdraw my support if we're forced to free him later on.

[Scrysis]

Hello,

So after reading what's up in the upcoming war campaign for the Horde I can't help but wonder what the hell do devs want us to do and why are they giving us the false impression of choice ?

Why on earth am I working with Baine and tricking Nathanos when I clearly chose to follow Sylvanas in the Sylvanas / Saurfang quest chain ?

Everything is inconsistent and makes no sense.

If you chose Sylvanas, you have the option to talk to inform her of Baine's actions and act as a double agent.

Because clearly, you chose poorly.

LOL

Semantically I like that I can choose to work as a double agent rather than an earnest ally to Baine. The choices leading up to the final patch can be like this, but the final choice needs to make actual difference. No more charades or inaction, but standing tall for what you believe in.

They are actually allowing you to stand for what you believe in by giving you the semblance of choice.

I don't think that will happen because the MMORPG model, especially the one WoW uses, can't really support a branching plot like that. I think it is more likely that the devs and writers have created two possible endings as concerns Sylvanas and the Horde, and are using character choices as a kind of secret ballot to determine which path will ultimately be taken - but in the end, it will winnow down to one predetermined course and sequence of events.

I think it might be cool to have a kind of PvP-esque scenario in which Sylvanas loyalists face off with Saurfang supporters on the Horde side - either directly or in a PvE type scenario that differs depending on who you support. But in the end, I think, you'll find we end up with a specific outcome that will be unfortunate to one side or the other.

I agree with a portion of this.

In a shared universe like WoW, you cannot have branching paths. The ending has already been chosen. That doesn't mean that they can't experiment with giving players a little choice in what they do and how they do it.

The story and expansions are planned out many years in advance. They already KNOW what they're doing for the next expansion, and thus, player voting (while a cool idea), isn't a thing. What they can do, is tweak the end scenes a bit. Suppose, as an example, the end of the expansion has Sylvanas fall off of a cliff. One ending can have Sylvanas spitefully jumping off, swearing that her newfound diabolical patrons will keep her alive and evading combined Alliance and Horde rebels. Another ending can have her being tripped or pushed off by a dishonorable Saurfang who has abandoned honor to do what needed to be done. Same result, slightly different means of getting there.

[Aucald]

I agree with a portion of this.

In a shared universe like WoW, you cannot have branching paths. The ending has already been chosen. That doesn't mean that they can't experiment with giving players a little choice in what they do and how they do it.

The story and expansions are planned out many years in advance. They already KNOW what they're doing for the next expansion, and thus, player voting (while a cool idea), isn't a thing. What they can do, is tweak the end scenes a bit. Suppose, as an example, the end of the expansion has Sylvanas fall off of a cliff. One ending can have Sylvanas spitefully jumping off, swearing that her newfound diabolical patrons will keep her alive and evading combined Alliance and Horde rebels. Another ending can have her being tripped or pushed off by a dishonorable Saurfang who has abandoned honor to do what needed to be done. Same result, slightly different means of getting there.

I definitely think that the "2 endings" in my post won't be something mutually exclusive such as Sylvanas living or dying, as it were, but something more akin to your suggestion - a surface-level change in the flow of events, but ultimately something that tells the same story that the next expansion would pick up and continue on with. You might get a different ending cinematic or cutscene, NPC's might say different things, and there could even be longer-lasting effects (lost rep with some new faction, or what have you) that hound people who made a specific choice, but nothing that would in the final accounting truly alter the story being told.

[orochimaru22]

the bod raid didn t make any logic at all the big end game boss alaiance has to face is jaina

[huth]

I don't think that will happen because the MMORPG model, especially the one WoW uses, can't really support a branching plot like that. I think it is more likely that the devs and writers have created two possible endings as concerns Sylvanas and the Horde, and are using character choices as a kind of secret ballot to determine which path will ultimately be taken - but in the end, it will winnow down to one predetermined course and sequence of events.

I think it might be cool to have a kind of PvP-esque scenario in which Sylvanas loyalists face off with Saurfang supporters on the Horde side - either directly or in a PvE type scenario that differs depending on who you support. But in the end, I think, you'll find we end up with a specific outcome that will be unfortunate to one side or the other.

There's some stuff they could do now with their phasing tech, but they'd still have to write convergent stories. Like depending on your choices, BfA could end with either Sylvanas or Saurfang(or someone else) as the acting Warchief. But both would then send you off to the same goal for the next expansion.

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the bod raid didn t make any logic at all the big end game boss alaiance has to face is jaina

The Alliance never fights Jaina. Those are elite Horde troops that just randomly happen to have the same class and names.

Or maybe the guy telling you about it was fudging thinks a bit. He was probably a bit stressed out at the time.

[Dagoth Ur]

I share your frustration. Not because I've chosen Sylvanas but because of the wasted potential that Horde's war campaign turned out to be.

Instead of bashing Alliance's skulls in, we're just being bombarded with characters who either constantly whine, raise dead Kul'Tirans who I don't give a tiniest frack about or the cherry on top that is Baine's self sabotage.

Who though this is going to be a blast to go through as Hordie deserves to be lifelong grunt in Anduin's army of the Light!

[Arrashi]

I share your frustration. Not because I've chosen Sylvanas but because of the wasted potential that Horde's war campaign turned out to be.

Instead of bashing Alliance's skulls in, we're just being bombarded with characters who either constantly whine, raise dead Kul'Tirans who I don't give a tiniest frack about or the cherry on top that is Baine's self sabotage.

Who though this is going to be a blast to go through as Hordie deserves to be lifelong grunt in Anduin's army of the Light!

Oh come on, don't tell me that zei...zai...zin..that tidesage dudes death wasn't top 10 saddest anime deaths that really moved you on emotional level.

[Dagoth Ur]

Oh come on, don't tell me that zei...zai...zin..that tidesage dudes death wasn't top 10 saddest anime deaths that really moved you on emotional level.

Animation was so crappy it looked like Zelling was having a stroke even before Nathanos shot him. So the suspense wasn't there for me.

But that was also frustrating imo, because just as Forsaken get a somewhat interesting new character who isn't yet another Sylvanas' groupie, they just kill him right then and there. If Nathanos only aimed a bit more to the left, all could've been different!

[zlygork]

Oh come on, don't tell me that zei...zai...zin..that tidesage dudes death wasn't top 10 saddest anime deaths that really moved you on emotional level.

Hey now, Zellig was a good boy!
I do find it interesting that out of the plethora of forsaken characters, they had to create a new throwaway guy for the role

[Arrashi]

Hey now, Zellig was a good boy!
I do find it interesting that out of the plethora of forsaken characters, they had to create a new throwaway guy for the role

Because rest of them are either complete psychos who don't care, or are golden's abominations and are already dead (tho fullfilling similar role as zelling).

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Animation was so crappy it looked like Zelling was having a stroke even before Nathanos shot him. So the suspense wasn't there for me.

But that was also frustrating imo, because just as Forsaken get a somewhat interesting new character who isn't yet another Sylvanas' groupie, they just kill him right then and there. If Nathanos only aimed a bit more to the left, all could've been different!

He couldn't kill baine because it would progress the plot. Zelling is great meaningless, but super sad (especially if you play sad anime music in background) death that is supposed to make you angry.

[Aeula]

It would be nice to personally arrest Baine instead of having to pretend to be his friend. But again, choice is an illusion in this game. So far.