Does classic give "retail" the freedom for radical changes?

[SinR]

Blizzard will see a HUGE uptick in subs once Classic goes live. Mostly people that never played back then and wanted to try it out cause "OH I HEARD GOOD THINGS ABOUT CLASSIC!"

then after 1 month 3/4 of those new subs will leave and un-sub because "wow this shit sucks... people actually PLAYED like this???"

[msdos]

The threat change and what they did with low level dungeons brought retail more in line with classic.

Towards the end of WotlK, the game ballooned out of control and all normal/heroic/low level dungeons became AOE cleave instagib fests where the healer just tagged along for fun and to dps a little.
It's hard to think the game ever got to that state in the first place, mostly talking about low level dungeons.

[Mighty Tim]

Sure, but since this thread kinda implies that Classic will be totally awesome, the Classic release will see levelling as it was back then, without questioning what purpose it serves.

I honestly have no idea what course my WoW "career" would have taken, if I hadn't found a guild that went into raiding. I loathed 5 mans...did some pvp to rank 10. Maybe I would have levelled more alts already back then....but what was there to do outside level new characters or raid?

I enjoyed dungeon progression at end game a lot but to each their own.

[Foolicious]

I hope Classic helps to show Blizzard that players are still interested in playing an rpg.
But even if they get some inspiration from classic i don't expect to see changes before 10.0. The next addon is probably already fully planned :/

[Elias01]

I doubt classic will have any bearing on what the WoW team does. They've made some pretty radical changes over the years already. Modern WoW and Classic WoW are already for two very different audiences. If they cock up retail the people who leave retail certainly aren't going to Classic.

And for what audience is retail? Can you tell? I definitly cant. It is like giant mish mash for everyone thats propably reason why is content so medicore.

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You do realize that back then, we basically didn't have MOBAs, F2P games were largely garbage, battle royales didn't exist and mobile gaming was in its' infancy, right? It's a completely different time, things that worked back then are alien to the gamers of today - and even some who liked it have grown older and less interested in 'full time job' type of MMOs.

It's never as simple as "since X worked back in 2005, just do the same thing in 2019! 10 million subscribers, easy."

What everyone makes to think you have to play wow classic as second job? Can you finaly get this idea that you should complete 100% of entire game out of your head? You can easly play classic with 1, 2 , 3 or w/e hours you can put into the game. This is exactly what is killing retail this entilitism of 40y old dudes with 12y old mind set that he coz he paid for his game than he should be able to get everything no matter of effort. People will play casualy do 1 or 2 dungeons per week. Maybe some crafting and pvp. And guess what. Those people will still have fun with the game even they wont clear raids. Becouse mmorpgs are about community and immersion. Not about clearing raids.

[PrairieChicken]

I hope they do

[kamuimac]

And for what audience is retail? Can you tell? I definitly cant. It is like giant mish mash for everyone thats propably reason why is content so medicore.

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What everyone makes to think you have to play wow classic as second job? Can you finaly get this idea that you should complete 100% of entire game out of your head? You can easly play classic with 1, 2 , 3 or w/e hours you can put into the game. This is exactly what is killing retail this entilitism of 40y old dudes with 12y old mind set that he coz he paid for his game than he should be able to get everything no matter of effort. People will play casualy do 1 or 2 dungeons per week. Maybe some crafting and pvp. And guess what. Those people will still have fun with the game even they wont clear raids. Becouse mmorpgs are about community and immersion. Not about clearing raids.

ofc you can - and end up 60 in 2021

viable for sure

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Blizzard will see a HUGE uptick in subs once Classic goes live. Mostly people that never played back then and wanted to try it out cause "OH I HEARD GOOD THINGS ABOUT CLASSIC!"

then after 1 month 3/4 of those new subs will leave and un-sub because "wow this shit sucks... people actually PLAYED like this???"

thats why i keep repeating to people to not belive people who praise vanilla even for a second

because the dissapointment will be immense - and it will happen in first 10 hours of gameplay once people who are now used to fast paces smooth combat will realise that there will use 1-2 abilities on 2-3 sec global cds and then wait 10-15 sec between engaging mobs because of terrible mana/energy regen

the gameplay is beyond horrible and pace of leveling is tragic.

[eduwneso]

/Shrug.

Majority will be playing Classic anyway so I guess they will just leave retail for those that want it.

Maybe 50/50 but definetly not a majority.

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Classic does allow for them to change the game even more drastically... which is why the next WoW game will be a mobile product.

Classic is actually more of a placeholder to stretch out BfA content as long as possible... 8.2 will likely not be around until December... meaning the 8.1.5 "non content" content patch will have to last another 9 months.... Plop Classic in between there and you have a "win" for Blizzard.

Then, come summer of 2020... when people are getting mindnumbed by WQs in BfA... they will announce the mobile game with playable demo at Blizzcon 2020.

I want what you are smoking! 8.2 will come out may-june and in the case of extreme lazy development july and as far as I know we will have another expansion that will be revealed on blizzcon, or they will say that BFA is the last one at blizzcon (doubt it).

I don't know why but blizz inverted the pacing from legion in BFA, with slower content at the start and a big chunk mid-late expansion (8.2 will be the biggest patch they will release in the history of wow just seeing thet it will have a mini zone and a big zone, a mega dungeon and a raid and more and more stuff)

I expect that we will se something in the PTR about 8.2 in the next 2 months after 8.1.5 is out.

[Bane-Thunder-God]

/Shrug.

Majority will be playing Classic anyway so I guess they will just leave retail for those that want it.

Boy are you delusional. If you think the majority of WoW players want a slow grindy game. Look what happened to Wildstar for you hardcore grindfest players...

Retail will always have far more players than Classic. I played Vanilla in 2005 when i was in Uni and I damn sure ain't going back to that grind. I enjoyed it as a teen but as a parent and full time worker now I certainly wouldn't enjoy it at all.

I'm sure Classic will have a niche audience when its all said and done, a few hundred thousand if that. But no way will it match or come close to Retail numbers.

[eduwneso]

It’s so bad that even private servers have over 5000 people playing on them consistently. Knowing that any time for any reason they could lose all that hard work in the blink of an eye. If you think classic won’t be a success you are in denial. I dont think it will be bigger then retail as some are saying but it’s definitely going to be big.

I would say that it will have more than retail in the first week or two, because of the """"novelty"""" and nostalgia, from there it will have less than retail and will start having a steady playerbase as you say

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Boy are you delusional. If you think the majority of WoW players want a slow grindy game. Look what happened to Wildstar for you hardcore grindfest players...

Retail will always have far more players than Classic. I played Vanilla in 2005 when i was in Uni and I damn sure ain't going back to that grind. I enjoyed it as a teen but as a parent and full time worker now I certainly wouldn't enjoy it at all.

I'm sure Classic will have a niche audience when its all said and done, a few hundred thousand if that. But no way will it match or come close to Retail numbers.

He is in full rant mode, I see him in every thread posting and sometimes just for the sake of it. Sometimes what he says is true and has a point, but other times is just "I see this thread and I will post my rant"

[Maudib]

I expect that we will se something in the PTR about 8.2 in the next 2 months after 8.1.5 is out.

For the sake of those still playing, I certainly hope so. But think about it... If 8.2 goes to PTR middle of May, then you are looking at maybe July/August for release. Around the same time they should be releasing Classic.

Do you honestly believe that Blizzard isn't looking at Classic as a "content patch" for BfA players? I mean, personally I would love a concurrent release to keep the modern WoW players out of Classic. But if I know Blizzard, they are likely to try and use Classic as a way to stretch BfA content over an even longer period of time.

"Hey guys! While waiting on the exciting new changes (fixes actually) to BfA in 8.2, why not roll up a Classic character an experience the history that brought your current character to where it is today?"

Yeah, I can TOTALLY see this coming.

[eduwneso]

For the sake of those still playing, I certainly hope so. But think about it... If 8.2 goes to PTR middle of May, then you are looking at maybe July/August for release. Around the same time they should be releasing Classic.

Do you honestly believe that Blizzard isn't looking at Classic as a "content patch" for BfA players? I mean, personally I would love a concurrent release to keep the modern WoW players out of Classic. But if I know Blizzard, they are likely to try and use Classic as a way to stretch BfA content over an even longer period of time.

"Hey guys! While waiting on the exciting new changes (fixes actually) to BfA in 8.2, why not roll up a Classic character an experience the history that brought your current character to where it is today?"

Yeah, I can TOTALLY see this coming.

hmmm I don't think so since they are two completely different teams, classic will be there for us (or at least for me) when we are between 8.3 and 9.0. I've never played classic so for me it will be something new and I will be playing it at that time.

About 8.2, I said two months in the very rare case of them relesing it into the PTR 2 late, I'm confident 8.2 will release before mid july, the actual prediction is at the end of may start of june, since in the quest with magni and MOTHER in 8.1.5 she says to him that what she will do will take her 77 days. Maybe it's a joke remembering the cicle of the patches in legion, or they actually will deliver 8.2 77 days after 8.1.5 comes out.

But as always, we will see

[Maudib]

Back in early December, people were guessing when 8.1.5 would release... Many were so sure it would be mid January.

But it never went to PTR until then. And here we are 2 months after that and it STILL isn't live yet.

Keep in mind, 8.1.5 was announced the beginning of Nov. at Blizzcon 2018.

So yeah... it' possible to see 8.2 by end of June. But if Blizzard feels it can use Classic release as means to keep a BfA subscription live without having to actually "give away content"... thy will.

This is the company who had record breaking profits this past year, but still thought it wise to fire 800 people. Whose stock dropped in HALF in the same year.

Blizzard sees the writing on the wall for a very bad 2019... which is why they are going to try and reduce costs as much as possible. It is very possible that Classic will be marketed as a "content" patch for BfA... by expecting players to switch over to Classic for a few months... then abck to BfA for 8.2

[kamuimac]

I would say that it will have more than retail in the first week or two, because of the """"novelty"""" and nostalgia, from there it will have less than retail and will start having a steady playerbase as you say

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He is in full rant mode, I see him in every thread posting and sometimes just for the sake of it. Sometimes what he says is true and has a point, but other times is just "I see this thread and I will post my rant"

the reason why it will be is because everybody who have retail subs will without a doubt try classic out.

i personaly gonna wait 3-4 weeks let the dust settle because the spawn rates will be abysmal if they wont make dynamic spawns (and i somehow doubt they will although they should) . launch will be terrible to play as casual player. and in 3-4 weeks 99% of people trying it out will be already gone due to how shitty tthat gameplay was/will be .

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Back in early December, people were guessing when 8.1.5 would release... Many were so sure it would be mid January.

But it never went to PTR until then. And here we are 2 months after that and it STILL isn't live yet.

Keep in mind, 8.1.5 was announced the beginning of Nov. at Blizzcon 2018.

So yeah... it' possible to see 8.2 by end of June. But if Blizzard feels it can use Classic release as means to keep a BfA subscription live without having to actually "give away content"... thy will.

This is the company who had record breaking profits this past year, but still thought it wise to fire 800 people. Whose stock dropped in HALF in the same year.

Blizzard sees the writing on the wall for a very bad 2019... which is why they are going to try and reduce costs as much as possible. It is very possible that Classic will be marketed as a "content" patch for BfA... by expecting players to switch over to Classic for a few months... then abck to BfA for 8.2

this has nothing to do with company itself but industry overall .

just recently pepsi announce it has 1,75 bilion $ ready for lay offs due to automatization of process - even though they have also record profits.

alll industries are slowly automatizing themselves and getting rid of weakest element - emploees

[RoKPaNda]

And for what audience is retail? Can you tell? I definitly cant. It is like giant mish mash for everyone thats propably reason why is content so medicore.

You think the content is mediocre? I loved Vanilla WoW at the time, but I'd say both dungeons and raids are vastly superior today than they were at the time, and world content is pretty good too. Usually it's the vanilla community that players miss, not the "content." - My interest in Classic is purely nostalgia. I enjoyed Vanilla quite a bit honestly and I want to relive some memories, but I don't question for a second that WoW only got better over the years even if it stopped catering as much to me.

[Maudib]

this has nothing to do with company itself but industry overall .

just recently pepsi announce it has 1,75 bilion $ ready for lay offs due to automatization of process - even though they have also record profits.

alll industries are slowly automatizing themselves and getting rid of weakest element - emploees

Yep... lots of automation to be had in game development.

If you fire 800 people having to do with marketing/distribution/management... it might be a good sign you are moving toward mobile platforms which require a lot less administrative support.

[Soon-TM]

It might be a good sign you are moving toward mobile platforms which require a lot less administrative support.

I mean... They had the gall to announce a mobile-only game in the face of a bunch of hardcore PC gamers, and they even thought the crowd would cheer. That not only means that they're frankly out of touch with their traditional customers (or that they simply dgaf), but also that they are HEAVILY betting to the mobile card. SC is dead, D3 and HotS are in maintenance mode, HS and OW seem to be declining far faster than WoW, despite being much more recent. At this pace, us PC gamers can consider ourselves lucky to get more WoW xpacs and maaaaaybe D4 (if that thing ever goes past the current development hell). Oh, and old stuff remastered.

[Maudib]

Classic will most certainly be an indicator of great importance.

If Classic does well, and by well I'm talking a a few million players, it will mean that there are profits to be made in WoW with the old content. The longtime fans and PC gamers will have a home, at least for a while. With almost certainly a Classic TBC and Classic Wrath to follow. Possibly even Classic Cata and Classic Pandaria.

But I doubt that there will ever be a Classic WoD, Legion or BfA. They have no replayability.

If Classic fails, then WoW is doomed. The last couple expansions have not done as well... and the decline can be attributed to things outside of Blizzard's control.. but much directly related to how the game has changed.

Sure there are a few million who still play WoW faithfully... but there are many more millions who have stopped playing because the game has "evolved" into something other than an MMORPG.

And when people say "Oh but a few million is enough to keep it alive!"... they don't realize just how close WoW may be to being abandoned.

I believe Classic will be as popular or MORE than current WoW with a few million consistent players. And the team bringing it back to life is TINY. I mean a handful of people are making Classic a thing. Compare that to the hundreds (thousand+ ?) people on the modern WoW team.

Why in the world would you keep cranking out average/less than average performing expansions at a huge cost, when you can just ressurect old expansions for a fraction of the cost?

Why would you NOT put those 1000+ people to work on an ambitious mobile MMO that has a potential market of 4.6 billion people?

The sad thing is... the very development decisions made in the past few expansions that have HURT WoW as an MMO, are the very things that work on a mobile platform. Lobby based queues. Quick gaming sessions. No desire or interest to play for hours on end.

Of course, instead of shuttng down Modern WoW they could just make it free to play and introduce a robust MTX cash shop to suck the last bit o blood from a dying game.