Should G'huun and Jaina dropped higher ilvl loot?

[MrExcelion]

Here's some past history:

HM+BRF - Same ilvl
HFC - Staggered in 4 increments, Archi higher ilvl
EN - Same ilvl
ToV - Helya higher ilvl
NH - Staggered in 3 increments, Guldan higher ilvl
KJ - KJ higher ilvl
ATBT - Argus higher ilvl
> Uldir - Same ilvl
> BoD - Same ilvl
[ future: CoS - Uu'nat 5 ilvls higher than Cabal ]

edit: Mod can edit in the word 'have' for readability. Don't see an edit thread title option.

edit 2: For further clarity, poll question is in regards to the rest of the instance. Aka, should G'huun have dropped higher than 385 base, and Jaina higher than 415 base in their respective mythic difficulties?

[Tech614]

CoS is 5 and 10 ilvls higher respectively because it doesn't drop azerite gear.

Azerite gear only comes in 15 ilvl increments which throws a wrench in staggered ilvls.

[ydraw]

CoS is 5 and 10 ilvls higher respectively because it doesn't drop azerite gear.

Azerite gear only comes in 15 ilvl increments which throws a wrench in staggered ilvls.

They could leave the Az gear the same and buff everything else.

The issue with making the end bosses significantly harder than the rest of the instance but only dropping the same loot is that it makes re-clearing much less attractive.

[Nitros14]

Every time they've made end bosses drop the same ilvl loot as other bosses it's been stupid.

[Tech614]

They could leave the Az gear the same and buff everything else.

The issue with making the end bosses significantly harder than the rest of the instance but only dropping the same loot is that it makes re-clearing much less attractive.

Then you have the Gul'dan situation where if you get a tier piece(or in this case azerite piece) as your loot off the boss when you are lucky enough to get loot you literally got punished. Or like when at the start of the xpac some key levels would reward you with an azerite piece below the ilvl you where expecting from your chest.

The solution would be to not have azerite gear on final bosses period, not this shit you propose. In the end, someone did put azerite pieces on them, which means you can't make the loot higher ilvl without it being a shit show of complaints again. Whoever decided to put the azerite gear on them is the problem. Especially in the case of Jaina when there are literally 8 other bosses that drop azerite armor, why in the fuck does she need to as well?

[MrExcelion]

The solution would be to not have azerite gear on final bosses period

Yeah, pretty much. Make them have cool trinkets for everyone (something better than Vanquished Tendril and Codex anyway), or filling in some of the itemization holes. Uldir had only one option for a lot of slots.

Though if she still dropped 415 Azerite I don't think disproportionate ilvls would have been the end of the world, since that's 365 Residuum or an upgrade for someone else probably. I rarely see Azerite go to scrapping.

I also think that if G'huun and Jaina did drop higher ilvl loot, the WF caps would have remained at 425 and 395 respectively. So 5 ilvls below cap or at cap already so it can't WF.

Tier pieces dropping off final bosses is something I'm not really a big fan of in general. They go back and forth with that. I prefer the wildcard approach or not at all. Just feel like those should be completed during progression, and it can be a big limiter if one piece is off the final boss (at least before the extra 6th piece). That's a discussion for another time though. Wake me up when they're back in the game, lol. Probably will be next xpac. Gul'dan turned out to be a unique case because of that whole 6pc tier system and the 2PC T19 being viable for me throughout T20 and all the way up to part of T21. I doubt they'll repeat that again.

[anveena]

No. G'huun just needed to drop better gear than the trash that was on it's loot table.

[ydraw]

Then you have the Gul'dan situation where if you get a tier piece(or in this case azerite piece) as your loot off the boss when you are lucky enough to get loot you literally got punished. Or like when at the start of the xpac some key levels would reward you with an azerite piece below the ilvl you where expecting from your chest.

The solution would be to not have azerite gear on final bosses period, not this shit you propose. In the end, someone did put azerite pieces on them, which means you can't make the loot higher ilvl without it being a shit show of complaints again. Whoever decided to put the azerite gear on them is the problem. Especially in the case of Jaina when there are literally 8 other bosses that drop azerite armor, why in the fuck does she need to as well?

Yeah that sounds like a reasonable compromise.

[quite an expert in wow]

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[Eazy]

Yes.
Why? Because there weren't any reasons for me why I should do G'huun(other than achievs). Previous bosses were dropping better items.

[nothingsjim]

I remember this has always been the case, the final boss drop loot that're a few ilvl higher than the rest of raid. As a sort of incentive and reward for raiders who managed to clear the raid instance. I am actually puzzled why Blizzard stopped doing this.

So yes, I totally support the "Final Boss drop higher ilvl loot". Right now, not only do final boss drop same ilvl loot with rest of raid, the loots they drop are pretty terrible. Pretty much everything from G'huun sucks, while for Jaina, we get junks like Tidestorm Codex, the Mail Azerite chest she drops has sucky traits etc, the sword and offhand is cool through.

[shyguybman]

I would like them to drop higher Ilvl gear and drop a big ass 2 Hander

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Yes absolutely. Jaina especially, is just too long and complicated at the last minute of the fight to care about doing.
We have killed it twice now, and I think that will be it for a long time. Its just not worth it. Most of the gear is bad, and its sooo unfun to get 9 minutes into a fight and then realize people don't know the fight and start panicking.

[salate]

Last bosses really should drop better gear/exclusive gear. Because after clearing Uldir people almost forgot about Ghuun.

[Galaar]

No they should not. Staggered ilvls were stupid in WoD because items you got from heroic bosses were better or as good as mythic drops at the beginning of the instance. Each raid difficulty should drop the same ilvl of loot with the exception of WF/TF. To be honest, I'd rather them go back to the 6 ilvl warforge we had in WoD instead of titanforging.

[Tojara]

No they should not. Staggered ilvls were stupid in WoD because items you got from heroic bosses were better or as good as mythic drops at the beginning of the instance. Each raid difficulty should drop the same ilvl of loot with the exception of WF/TF. To be honest, I'd rather them go back to the 6 ilvl warforge we had in WoD instead of titanforging.

And what's the issue with that? Harder boss rewards better loot. It's a surprise to nobody that historically the last boss in heroic is usually harder than the first 2-3 bosses in Mythic. Why shouldn't it feel rewarding, let alone offer incentive to actually farm the last boss in heroic, let alone the last boss in Mythic?

The WF system was put in place to make early boss kills sometimes rewarding past the first several clears, to which it does it's job. The problem with these past few tiers is that everything offers the exact same iLvL, so there's absolutely zero excitement from killing boss #9, as opposed to killing boss #3 and #4. A system with staggered iLvLs puts incentive on doing bosses later in an instance, and how they do that is entirely up to them. A system where the last 3 bosses had 0 potential to WF and always offered max iLvL (aside from socket) on Mythic for example would make these bosses far more attractive and lucrative to farm.

[Narzok]

Yeah, pretty much. Make them have cool trinkets for everyone (something better than Vanquished Tendril and Codex anyway), or filling in some of the itemization holes. Uldir had only one option for a lot of slots...

please, if they want to make class/specc spezific trinkets again, don't put them on a loot table.
make a raid-rep and give it to a vendor, like the BT trinkets.
that way everyone who raids the same amount in terms of cleared IDs gets the trinket at the same time.

i don't think blizz would be able to make a trinket that is
A: interesting enough to look forward to,
and at the same time
B: optional in terms of performance when compared to a similar m+ trinket.
so if they go with option A, i would prefer a fixed method of acquisition that rewards effort.
make higher difficulties give more rep.
that way mythic raider would get it first, followed by heroic, normal and eventually LFR people.
not raiding normal or higher is no excuse to keep abilities that would be part of a specc if not for that trinket away from people.
make it weaker relative to the ilvl difference. vendor stuff does not WF, so a LFR-version would NEVER procc higher.

I would like them to drop higher Ilvl gear and drop a big ass 2 Hander

it really bugged me that 2 raids in a row, we had STR 2hand weapons on the 1st boss.
might by petty of me, but a guy in our casual guild plays warrior, and his mentality for raiding is trash.
the "i fail my way trough and get carried by others for it" kind of attitude.
and both raids, he got both weapons on mythic by dying 10 seconds into a fight and getting the loot because the group happened to kill the boss that pull.

i agree that having more than 1 of each weapontype drop in a raid is important, they should mix up in what order the weapons drop.
i think the first agi dagger i could get in BoD drops from Opulence (might be wrong).
again, i know this is just petty ranting, but still....

[Th3Scourge]

Yes. They are both significantly more difficult than the preceding bosses and should reflect this in the rewards.

[Nitros14]

No they should not. Staggered ilvls were stupid in WoD because items you got from heroic bosses were better or as good as mythic drops at the beginning of the instance. Each raid difficulty should drop the same ilvl of loot with the exception of WF/TF. To be honest, I'd rather them go back to the 6 ilvl warforge we had in WoD instead of titanforging.

I don't see anything good about mythic Champion of the Light dropping better gear than heroic Jaina.

[ydraw]

And what's the issue with that? Harder boss rewards better loot. It's a surprise to nobody that historically the last boss in heroic is usually harder than the first 2-3 bosses in Mythic. Why shouldn't it feel rewarding, let alone offer incentive to actually farm the last boss in heroic, let alone the last boss in Mythic?

The WF system was put in place to make early boss kills sometimes rewarding past the first several clears, to which it does it's job. The problem with these past few tiers is that everything offers the exact same iLvL, so there's absolutely zero excitement from killing boss #9, as opposed to killing boss #3 and #4. A system with staggered iLvLs puts incentive on doing bosses later in an instance, and how they do that is entirely up to them. A system where the last 3 bosses had 0 potential to WF and always offered max iLvL (aside from socket) on Mythic for example would make these bosses far more attractive and lucrative to farm.

Exactly this. In fact with every boss dropping Azerite now, for a player mostly interested in gear, there's little point going any further than Rastakhan.