Preach on the broken gear treadmill

[Khallid]

The video seems very skewed to his perspective as a mythic raider that crushes content very quickly. Preach assumes that progress will take 2 or 3 weeks to finish their goals and then they're done. In my experience progress takes several months and gear isn't even that relevant for most of it.

Gearing up in one week at the beginning of the next tier? I don't have time to run 30 mythic+ in one week, and I don't even want to. It's not realistic to assume that everyone will catch up instantly when a new raid comes out, just because it's "possible" to do so. And no answer will please everyone. You will always have people dissatisfied with the rate at which they acquire gear.

[Maudib]

Then maybe try to be less full of shit when you try to get that point through. You and the likes of you are tiring with your shitty agenda of Vanilla being the perfection and the solution to all actual and imaginary issues raised in every last shitty YouTube video.

That’s why I can’t wait for Classic to release, so you can leave us alone with your bull, shitting on everything around just because it’s not Vanilla.

Thanks.

The video is about how the rewards system in BfA is failing. Those of us who like Classic and the older ways of rewarding gameplay are simply stating we agree with Preach... and for me, it's th esole reason why I cannot play the modern game anymore. There is no depth to the game at all. It's like a comic book versus Tolkien.

I'm the first to say that the raiding encounters are awesome. The artwork is amazing as is the zone design... the art team and encounters team are top notch... it's the core rewards and activities that are complete crap.

I prefer the systems of Classic, TBC, Wrath... valor badges, first aid, feeding pets, leveling lockpicking, greens being sweet, blues being awesome and epics being.. OMG EPIC! No this absolutel crap of clicking on 10 squirrels and 12 nuts giving you a titanforged item better than current raids.

If modern WoW has more of these things instead of having them all stripped away, I would be playing it today.

[bullseyed]

Yes, the ilvl inflation was MUCH lower in the past, limiting the automated obsolescence of content (or preventing it in the case of Vanilla and early TBC).

May have varied from server to server, but in the past you geared up through each tier of raids. Right now in BFA a new player should have to join an Uldir raiding guild to gear up for BfD. Not just go do 10 WQs for raid equivalent gear.

Casuals eventually cried about this, which is what got the badge system implemented in the first place. It was largely a failure until it got restructured and refined into the two tier badge system... which eventually got removed in favor of the even easier system we have now.

Oddly enough the badge grind got replaced with the AP/Azerite grind so many people whine about today. Apparently it worked when the reward was gear, but not when it is stuff that augments your gear.

I think it would be interesting if the 50 neck levels got condensed into 5 actual necks, so you'd get a "gear" drop every so often. And instead of Azerite which comes from everywhere being the way to do it, I'd throw specifics at it like "do 20 dungeons" "do 50 WQs" "kill the last raid boss 5 times". Then you can do it a little bit more at your own pace with some gating items like raid resets to keep people from doing it all in a weekend.

[Echocho]

The video seems very skewed to his perspective as a mythic raider that crushes content very quickly.

Not really, because at lower gear levels it's even more noticeable. I raided heroic in Uldir on one character and when the new season came into play I changed to a new character and progressed past my old one in a week without ever doing a single dungeon or raid.

If you're a mythic raider or high m+ key player there's at least a chance that some of your gear will last a bit longer, anything below that and you're completely reset and whatever you did in the previous months was all for nothing.

[Nnyco]

Preach needed some more money? Time to make another shitpost video!

[Maudib]

That’s a YOU problem, I can see plain and simple that you are the Vanilla flaggelant.

You will get it, does not make your nonsense about how Vanilla being 10000X better game than BfA any truer.

I didn't say Vanilla was 10000x better... I said I like the reward system in Vanilla much more than BfA and I think modern WoW is shit.

I didn't state anything as fact... I stated opinion. What I think and feel, and why I think and feel way.

If there is a "problem"... it's that you cannot seem to accept that others find your game unrewarding and not worth playing. I have no problem with you hating Classic, and feeding pets, and 40 man raids, and such. None whatsoever. It doesn't insult me personally or otherwise.

I just say "You do you!"

[Maudib]

Preach needed some more money? Time to make another shitpost video!

That could very well be why he posts what he does, but if so, that means enough people need to hear what they are feeling spoken out loud that Preach can make so much money off of the view.

Lends even more credibility to his viewpoints as it's shared by so many.

[Molis]

That's how you get 'em youtube bucks after all. He's just one of many people with agenda stirring shit up where he can and his agenda is $$ and stirring shit up is the best way to attract masses he needs.

Cant believe how many of them in the first two pages.

On topic
Shit has been like this for years, and years. If you do not like it there is the door.

[Big Thanks]

Am i the only one who loves the Vanilla itemization?

No? Ok, i'll show myself out...

[Thage]

The video seems very skewed to his perspective as a mythic raider that crushes content very quickly. Preach assumes that progress will take 2 or 3 weeks to finish their goals and then they're done. In my experience progress takes several months and gear isn't even that relevant for most of it.

Gearing up in one week at the beginning of the next tier? I don't have time to run 30 mythic+ in one week, and I don't even want to. It's not realistic to assume that everyone will catch up instantly when a new raid comes out, just because it's "possible" to do so. And no answer will please everyone. You will always have people dissatisfied with the rate at which they acquire gear.

This is a recurring problem, especially here on MMO-Champ. High-end players are subject to a strong cognitive bias: "If I can do it, so can everyone else," although most players either can't, or won't (the difference is academic at best). What they're asking for would be a serious system-shock to the community at large (especially OP's idea of removing dungeon queues and subjecting players to the whims of the LFG tool even for leveling content and 'smash a dungeon or two when I'm too busy to sit down and list/relist over and over' days) for what amounts to a song and a promise, neither of which are particularly compelling arguments with Classic looming on the horizon to cater to that exact demographic.

Don't get me wrong, BFA is beyond a hot mess, but I find it telling that people here genuinely think it's worse than WoD just because 'the casuals' have gear progression after fully gearing up in dungeons. Mythic raiders have become a very insulated crowd by their own efforts, with casual players and people who are fine with multiple difficulties in theory (though BFA has botched it in practice) often being shouted down and chased with torches and pitchforks. Of course, then there's the actual high-skilled players who don't care and are busy actually maintaining a high level of play rather than spending hours on MMO-Champion complaining that their gold bar is devalued because someone else is given pyrite.

And it's not even like a ramping up of difficulty in queued content couldn't work. FFXIV slowly upped the difficulty in the Stormblood MSQ dungeons, duties, and trials, in such a way that the difficulty curve was easy to adapt to and left the general playerbase in a much better place than they were at the end of Heavensward (which saw a difficulty drop from ARR's endgame dungeons and trials). But just taking a sledgehammer to the support blocks to knock the floor out from under players is, has always been, and shall remain a stupid idea rooted in egotism and cognitive bias.

[Nnyco]

That could very well be why he posts what he does, but if so, that means enough people need to hear what they are feeling spoken out loud that Preach can make so much money off of the view.

Lends even more credibility to his viewpoints as it's shared by so many.

Is it shared or are they just sheeps jumpin on a bandwagon?

[Maudib]

Am i the only one who loves the Vanilla itemization?

No? Ok, i'll show myself out...

I do miss hit, spell hit, defense, etc... working to get your gear capped or best you could make gear much more interesting than ... "It's got bigger numbers.. .equip"

[Big Thanks]

I do miss hit, spell hit, defense, etc... working to get your gear capped or best you could make gear much more interesting than ... "It's got bigger numbers.. .equip"

Yeah man, i also hate the

better item level *equip*
better item level *equip*
better item level *equip*
better item level *equip*

Its so boring imo

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

The treadmill is broken but leveling it out and making everything harder is not the solution.

Spoiler alert: Catchup gear and not having to do all 4 tiers is a good thing.

The problem WoW has, what breaks the treadmill, is it's not fun to get gear. And I'm not even talking "oh this didn't titanforge so I guess I'll just shard it." I'm talking the content isn't fun. Opening your map and seeing only bracers and belts isn't fun, doing a dungeon and getting a token for "creates a random Mail armor piece" isn't fun. Having no ability to control where your upgrades come from and what your upgrades are for isn't fun.

And that's the problem that breaks the treadmill, you have no control. If the treadmill says "today you get a pair of shoes" you get a pair of shoes. There's no mechanism to say "but I don't need boots I need a helm."

[Maudib]

Is it shared or are they just sheeps jumpin on a bandwagon?

NOW you are giving Preach more credit than he deserves. Preach is simply a good communicator, and people like to hear arguments and points of views from people who can arm them with better points to debate.

Nah... there are plenty of people feeling left behind by Blizzard. As most of the current fans will feel when they go Mobile.

[Schattenlied]

I would say this is a symptom of a deeper problem...

He says there's no incentive to play content you've already done, but really there shouldn't need to be, that being a problem at all is a symptom of the gameplay at it's most basic level not being entertaining enough to keep people playing...

Having a well designed treadmill would be great, but without the gameplay itself being fun, there would still be no reason to play after you hit your "goal", and people will still quit as soon as they run out of drops to get because the treadmill was the only thing keeping them going.

The game needs to be fun in spite of the treadmill, not because of it.

[Khallid]

Not really, because at lower gear levels it's even more noticeable. I raided heroic in Uldir on one character and when the new season came into play I changed to a new character and progressed past my old one in a week without ever doing a single dungeon or raid.

If you're a mythic raider or high m+ key player there's at least a chance that some of your gear will last a bit longer, anything below that and you're completely reset and whatever you did in the previous months was all for nothing.

That sounds like it worked great for you. You switched characters at the correct time to do so and you got good results out of it. Did that detract from your enjoyment of having raided Uldir?

The purpose of the game is to have fun, not to hoard gear. It's an entertainment product. It's not "all for nothing" if you had fun.

[Puremallace]

There are smarter people than him. You should not listen any idiot that is on you tube. His name fits his story - Preaching nostalgic bullshit that no one wants except nostalgic players. Luckily, not everyone is nostalgic.

So for one I actually like Preach as he sticks with the game instead of shitting on it constantly like Asmongold for clicks. Where I think these Vanilla guys falls utterly short is they tend to forgot that some gear in vanilla made you a death god. Yeah it was super gradual at some points but it seriously jumped at others.

They describe it as this curve but it was more like a step ladder. Problem with anything post Titanforge is these KOREAN RNG elements Blizzard has embraced that are just psychotic to keep them.

[Sevyvia]

There are smarter people than him. You should not listen any idiot that is on you tube. His name fits his story - Preaching nostalgic bullshit that no one wants except nostalgic players. Luckily, not everyone is nostalgic.

His video was easily more nuanced and thought through that this random self-important comment. You've proven your own point, albeit about yourself more than a youtuber. Congrats.

[Echocho]

That sounds like it worked great for you. You switched characters at the correct time to do so and you got good results out of it. Did that detract from your enjoyment of having raided Uldir?

The purpose of the game is to have fun, not to hoard gear. It's an entertainment product. It's not "all for nothing" if you had fun.

Absolutely. I quit the game after that week. If my efforts are completely wasted why should I bother? There are a lot of other games I can play where my time don't feel wasted