What if Sylvanas is simply playing the "Obito card" on Azeroth?

[Greengrim]

I'm not completely sure if anybody has suggested this theory before, this forum is kinda endless and hard to keep up with. But in case it hasn't been discussed already, here's my personal theory on Sylvanas' actios.

Most of you here are probably aware who Obito is, but for those who aren't, Obito is a character from a japanese manga called Naruto.
The story is built around the world of shinobi (ninjas) who have access to extraordinary abilities though their chakra.
SPOILER ALERT: Stop reading here, if you haven't yet finished Naruto Shippuuden.
Obito started out as an untalented shinobi kid, who actually had enormous potential due to a streanght he inherited from his family's bloodline. He lived in times of hate and war between shinobi villages and factions. Before he could access the true streangth of his bloodline, he suffered an enormous amount of mental and physical pain. Some of the traumas he went through include him losing half of his body as well as witnessing the love of his life being murdered by his best friend. Shortly after he recovered he decided that he will change the world by becoming the most evil being in it, and thus, forcing all shinobi to turn their backs on all the hate and differences, and unite their powers against him. After many years of planning and scheming he managed to achieve his goal.

Now, as far as I know, one of the characters who had experienced arguably the most pain, both mental and physical, in the WoW universe is Sylvanas. She was one of the most talented high elf rangers, yet helpless agains Arthas, and thus, lost many of her people, as well as her own soul and body. She was even stripped of her "right" to die and instead forced to serve Arthas as his banshee minion. Arthas even told her it was her fault that so many high elves had died, as he only wanted to reach Sunwell, but her resistance forced him to unleash his rage upon her people. With time, she managed to regain her soul and body, after which she started to seek revenge. BUT, during this time, she also cared for her new family - the undead. She continued to do that to present day even. Yes, her methods are cold and brutal, but everything she did (apart from ensuring the Lich King's demise), she did so that the Forsaken could have a future on Azeroth.

So, I think that Sylvanas is playing the Obito card on Azeroth. Obviously she was a charachter who cared a lot for her people, both in her high elf days and her undead days. Now her family is even bigger, so maybe she needs a different approach, one that's far more different than anything she's ever done before. She already managed to unite Saurfang and Baine with the Alliance. I honestly believe she is trying to become so evil, that the Horde and Alliance unite against her. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

[Rustedsaint]

I'm not completely sure if anybody has suggested this theory before, this forum is kinda endless and hard to keep up with. But in case it hasn't been discussed already, here's my personal theory on Sylvanas' actios.

Most of you here are probably aware who Obito is, but for those who aren't, Obito is a character from a japanese manga called Naruto.
The story is built around the world of shinobi (ninjas) who have access to extraordinary abilities though their chakra.
SPOILER ALERT: Stop reading here, if you haven't yet finished Naruto Shippuuden.
Obito started out as an untalented shinobi kid, who actually had enormous potential due to a streanght he inherited from his family's bloodline. He lived in times of hate and war between shinobi villages and factions. Before he could access the true streangth of his bloodline, he suffered an enormous amount of mental and physical pain. Some of the traumas he went through include him losing half of his body as well as witnessing the love of his life being murdered by his best friend. Shortly after he recovered he decided that he will change the world by becoming the most evil being in it, and thus, forcing all shinobi to turn their backs on all the hate and differences, and unite their powers against him. After many years of planning and scheming he managed to achieve his goal.

Now, as far as I know, one of the characters who had experienced arguably the most pain, both mental and physical, in the WoW universe is Sylvanas. She was one of the most talented high elf rangers, yet helpless agains Arthas, and thus, lost many of her people, as well as her own soul and body. She was even stripped of her "right" to die and instead forced to serve Arthas as his banshee minion. Arthas even told her it was her fault that so many high elves had died, as he only wanted to reach Sunwell, but her resistance forced him to unleash his rage upon her people. With time, she managed to regain her soul and body, after which she started to seek revenge. BUT, during this time, she also cared for her new family - the undead. She continued to do that to present day even. Yes, her methods are cold and brutal, but everything she did (apart from ensuring the Lich King's demise), she did so that the Forsaken could have a future on Azeroth.

So, I think that Sylvanas is playing the Obito card on Azeroth. Obviously she was a charachter who cared a lot for her people, both in her high elf days and her undead days. Now her family is even bigger, so maybe she needs a different approach, one that's far more different than anything she's ever done before. She already managed to unite Saurfang and Baine with the Alliance. I honestly believe she is trying to become so evil, that the Horde and Alliance unite against her. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

She never cared about her forsaken minions, and only sees them as a tool to prevent her death

[Varodoc]

Now, as far as I know, one of the characters who had experienced arguably the most pain, both mental and physical, in the WoW universe is Sylvanas.

Very, very debatable. Many people have suffered much more than Sylvanas. Her fellow Banshee were also tortured and deprived of the rest of the grave. Magister Umbric and the Ren'dorei were almost transformed into formless Void abominations. Bolvar Fordragon was burned alive and tortured by the Lich King himself. Ner'zhul literally had his body disintegrated and his spirit imprisoned inside the Frozen Throne. Velen was forced to watch his people join Satan, turn against him, and hunt him down across the stars for 25.000 years. Argus the Unmaker has literally known only pain and suffering. Then there's Thaddius, Jaina, Derek, Rakeesh, etc. Need I go on?

[Mehrunes]

So she's being manipulated by WoW's equivalent of Madara, who in turn is manipulated by WoW's equivalent of Black Zetsu, who in turn is working for WoW's Kaguya (who, stepping into Boruto, ran away to "Azeroth" from WoW's equivalent of the rest of Ootsuki clan)?

She never cared about her forsaken minions, and only sees them as a tool to prevent her death

Her internal monologue in Before the Storm and earlier works disprove that notion.

[owbu]

Sylvanas main character traits through the years have been self interest and disinterest in other people (except for sometimes the forsaken), so I doubt that she would be a good fit for a "the dead girl this city needs, not the dead girl the city wants" type of self sacrificing storyline. Especialy because her main motivation seems to be the fear of death, after she has seen in first hand and becoming a super villain kinda increases your chances of some hero guy trying to off you.

I would expect some sort of "I couldnt tell you my real plan, because you are too weak to handle it!" sort of reveal, though. Which I guess is a bit similiar to what you are describing. Something like she needs to turn Azeroth into an undead Titan, so that the void cant get to it, and therefore needs an Azerite sucking War to weaken her enoug or something like that.

[derpkitteh]

that wasn't obito's goal, his goal was to enact the infinite tsukoyomi plan that madara was manipulated into forming.

it was to lock everyone in an infinite dream where there was only peace and good things.

to me, i don't see any similarities. i guess maybe you could consider raising everyone into undeath as similar to the dream? but there still would be no harmony.

[Rustedsaint]

So she's being manipulated by WoW's equivalent of Madara, who in turn is manipulated by WoW's equivalent of Black Zetsu, who in turn is working for WoW's Kaguya (who, stepping into Boruto, ran away to "Azeroth" from WoW's equivalent of the rest of Ootsuki clan)?

Her internal monologue in Before the Storm and earlier works disprove that notion.

Her internal monologue in earlier works reveled she saw the forsaken as nothing more then arrows in her quiver to shoot at the lich king followed by her changing her opinion of them to a bulwark to prevent her final death

[Mehrunes]

Her internal monologue in earlier works reveled she saw the forsaken as nothing more then arrows in her quiver to shoot at the lich king followed by her changing her opinion of them to a bulwark to prevent her final death

Because there were no WoW books between Edge of Night and now... And I see you have no counter-argument to BtS. You know, the most recent update on the topic.

[david0925]

Because there were no WoW books between Edge of Night and now... And I see you have no counter-argument to BtS. You know, the most recent update on the topic.

I would appreciate it if you can point me to these internal dialogues. no sarcasm.

[Amaterasu65]

Obito wanted to create a genjutsu on the whole planet that would make it dreamlike with no sadness, death or war and even dead people would be back like his sweetheart Rin chan! Infinite peace.

Sylvanas wants everyone dead so she won't suffer alone + so they would also become undead under her rule which is also a peaceful but morbid result.

Obito was talk no jutsu'd by Naruto. Sylvie will be talk no jutsu'd by Anduin? OWO

[Dellis0991]

I would appreciate it if you can point me to these internal dialogues. no sarcasm.

I don't got time to upload the stuff but she laminates about blood elves and the forsaken and how cares and wants a future for them and for the horde.....none of that translated to her outward actions because blizz story telling is shite!.

[Mehrunes]

I would appreciate it if you can point me to these internal dialogues. no sarcasm.

I don't have digital version of Before the Storm, but she makes it clear that she wanted to capture Eyir not just for her own sake, but for Forsaken's sake as well, which results in her confusion (and anger) where she learns that some members of the Desolate Council don't want to be immortal. She also hopes the Gathering turns to shit so that the Forsaken drop the idea of reuniting with humans because she believes it would only end badly for them in the long term and believes they'd be happier with how things are. She also makes it clear during the Legion victory parade that she considers the Forsaken to be her people and that she's attached to them more than she is to other Horde races (at least the parade bit should be available in the online preview for the book on wowhead).


Then there's the game, where among other things, she sends players to gather insignia of the fallen Forsaken in Silverpine, which she wouldn't do if she viewed them without any emotion. Not to mention her feelings towards Nathanos in particular, which she herself may not be aware of but Dark Rangers were joking about it (in Nathanos' short story).

[Doctor Funkenstein]

Most of you here are probably aware who Obito is, but for those who aren't, Obito is a character from a japanese manga called Naruto.

God, gotta love the ignorance of kids and teenagers. "Well, if I know something, then surely the vast majority of the world should know it, too. I mean, the universe revolves around me, right?"

The brain is so fucking fascinating.

[Concequence]

that wasn't obito's goal, his goal was to enact the infinite tsukoyomi plan that madara was manipulated into forming.

it was to lock everyone in an infinite dream where there was only peace and good things.

to me, i don't see any similarities. i guess maybe you could consider raising everyone into undeath as similar to the dream? but there still would be no harmony.

How is this any different from Arthas? I mean... in the cinematic... "The Truest victory is stirring the hearts of your people" ... I mean could be completely wrong here but it seems like Arthas considered the dead "his people". He took his fathers place because he thought of him as weak, and not able to save the people. He raised all of them one by one. Took his fathers soul with him even. Eternal un-life. He would save them all... by killing them. It was twisted of course, but I Arthas in his own mind was the good guy. Doing hard things to save his people from the Legion. ... to save them from the Void. Its been shown the void does not like undeath very much. The curse of flesh ends all life eventually, everything can be destroyed and will decay... undeath is much harder to stop.

[Tyrathius]

I doubt they have the guts to do this. I think this would be absolutely fantastic but isn't in the realm of realistic possibilities. Sylvanas being willing to finally relinquish control to unite all of Azeroth against her but finally BE united would be absolutely fantastic.

If Sylvanas wanted to unite Azeroth all she had to do was go up to Anduin and say "Yo, let's make some peace." He literally tries to do it himself and almost succeeds before Sylvanas sabotages him in Before the Storm. If she were actually interested, they could have made it happen in a day.

This is the problem with trying to retcon a noble motive for Sylvanas. You inevitably run into the question "Okay, but why couldn't you do that without all the death and zombification?" and there's never going to be a good answer for that.

[Greengrim]

God, gotta love the ignorance of kids and teenagers. "Well, if I know something, then surely the vast majority of the world should know it, too. I mean, the universe revolves around me, right?"

The brain is so fucking fascinating.

You know that calling other people kids is actually quite childish right? Even more so, after I explained who the guy was for people like you. And last but not least, I bet you my a*s that you are in the minority of people on this forum who don't know Naruto.

[Irian]

Honestly it's a pretty okay idea, and it's the kind of cheesy stuff I'd expect from Blizzard. Sylvanas "playing the bad guy" so to speak makes so much more sense if you consider the opening line of BfA, which currently makes no sense considering her actions within the expansion itself:

"Ours is a cycle of hatred, alliances forged and broken. We have paid the price for sharing this world, and we have forgotten what makes us strong."

As it stands, that quote kind of annoys me because it's then followed up by the cinematic of the Siege of Lordaeron, an Alliance response to her needless overkill of aggression in burning down Teldrassil. But if we look at it from the perspective of a puppeteer trying to orchestrate a situation in which both the Alliance and Horde are forced to to unite to defeat her, the Siege of Lordaeron immediately following that quote makes a huge amount of sense.

I don't know if it'll happen that way but it would be within the personality of a self-loathing banshee who wants to die to finally end her life for a purpose that would allow not only her people, but the Horde as a whole to live on without her, by becoming the enemy they all need to rally against.

[Verdugo]

If Sylvanas wanted to unite Azeroth all she had to do was go up to Anduin and say "Yo, let's make some peace." He literally tries to do it himself and almost succeeds before Sylvanas sabotages him in Before the Storm. If she were actually interested, they could have made it happen in a day.

This is the problem with trying to retcon a noble motive for Sylvanas. You inevitably run into the question "Okay, but why couldn't you do that without all the death and zombification?" and there's never going to be a good answer for that.

Anduin sabotaged it himself by bringing in Calia and not punishing Genn.

[Eazy]

Then she would just be stupid thinking that would work.

[Santti]

You know that calling other people kids is actually quite childish right? Even more so, after I explained who the guy was for people like you. And last but not least, I bet you my a*s that you are in the minority of people on this forum who don't know Naruto.

I'm betting hardly anyone knows who that is. Because I don't know who that is.

This is fun.

(Well, I've heard the name before, and I associate it with Japanese stuff, possibly manga, but that's it).