Fluffy the cat nearly froze to death in Montana

[Independent voter]

Fluffy the cat had lived around a certain house in Kalispell, Montana, long before the current owners bought the place and took her under their care.

When temperatures dropped, Fluffy always made sure she found a comfortable spot to weather out the cold spell. But not this time. When the owners returned home one day at the end of January, they noticed her motionless body stuck on a snowbank.

She was covered from head to toe in ice and snow.

https://www.mnn.com/family/pets/stor...-death-montana

Image of frozen cat: https://media.mnn.com/assets/images/...crop-smart.jpg

Lucky for it it wasn't a short hair. Yes, she survived.

[Techno-Druid]

You really shouldn't let your pet cats roam around outside. Indoor cats in general are safer and live longer, the only real drawback being boredom from the cat, but that can be remedied through toys and socialization.

[Pu3Ho]

You really shouldn't let your pet cats roam around outside. Indoor cats in general are safer and live longer, the only real drawback being boredom from the cat, but that can be remedied through toys and socialization.

Actually you SHOULD allow them to do it, it's literally in their Nature.

[Rozz]

Actually you SHOULD allow them to do it, it's literally in their Nature.

That's not true and in some places this is illegal or considered abuse. A domestic animal can't survive in the wild, an urban "wild" setting is extremely unsafe, and free roaming domestics are harmful to native ecosystems. You also can't protect your cat from others if they decide to harm it and plenty of people do.

It's irresponsible and sets cats up for failure/harm. You have no idea how annoyed shelters, vets, and conservationist are by this attitude. I can only see an outdoor cat as acceptable if someone is able to safely confine them within their own property. If you can keep them safe from predators/cars/people and from damaging other environments you don't own, that's fine.

Edit: Before anyone responds w/ "source", here are sources about the issues of free-roaming cats and their relationship to ferals/other issues surrounding them. Also some tips on how to possibly deal with the problem:
1. https://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/ab...rnalCode=javma
2. https://www.avma.org/KB/Policies/Pag...eral-Cats.aspx
3. http://wildlife.org/wp-content/uploa...Feral-Cats.pdf

[Techno-Druid]

Actually you SHOULD allow them to do it, it's literally in their Nature.

Sure, if you want to risk your cat dying or fucking up your local wildlife. After all, cats have been blamed for the extinction of 33 species globally.

[Creotor]

That's not true and in some places this is illegal or considered abuse. A domestic animal can't survive in the wild, an urban "wild" setting is extremely unsafe, and free roaming domestics are harmful to native ecosystems. You also can't protect your cat from others if they decide to harm it and plenty of people do.

It's irresponsible and sets cats up for failure/harm. You have no idea how annoyed shelters, vets, and conservationist are by this attitude. I can only see an outdoor cat as acceptable if someone is able to safely confine them within their own property. If you can keep them safe from predators/cars/people and from damaging other environments you don't own, that's fine.

Safer to not leave your house too, except for when absolutely needed. That should be enforced, and I don't grasp how humans' right to free roam is not yet considered illegal and/or self-abuse.

[Techno-Druid]

Basically people shouldn't keep animals for their own enjoyment because they cant actually provide the 5 freedoms

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33 is piddly compared to the hundreds of species humans are directly responsible for killing.

Yes...that still doesn't make it good, not even remotely.

[Rozz]

Safer to not leave your house too, except for when absolutely needed. That should be enforced, and I don't grasp how humans' right to free roam is not yet considered illegal and/or self-abuse.

Actually a more comparable example would be letting human children roam free, since they have no way to properly protect themselves from dangers and it forces others to deal with them trespassing due to your negligence.

And surprisingly, that's considered child neglect and even abuse. So since we do enforce parents to properly care for their children and their actions/destruction of property, it would make sense to do the same to pet owners.

Or are you saying a cat has the consciousness and capabilities of a home owning adult human?

If you want to make yourself look like more of an ass, be my guest.

[Techno-Druid]

No it doesn't but it seems like controlling cats isn't doing anything that is the mass extinction event which is humanity.

It certainly will, the introduction of domestic cats to the Americas and Oceania is an extension of human civilization. It would be better if we as a species opted to keep our cats in a controlled environment free from targeting small animals, whether that be in an entirely indoor environment or in a kennel-like outdoor space like some cat owners do.

Even in continent where wildcats are native to: Europe, Asia and Africa. You still run the risk of domestic cats contaminating the gene pool of native members of the genus Felis. You can see this in Scotland, where European wildcats are threatened by being absorbed into outdoor and feral cat populations.

[Trassk]

Cats are better then people. If people died from frostbite, no great loss. But if fluffy had died, I'd want revenge.. against winter.



That's right FU Mr freeze, vengeance, FOR FLUFFY!!!!

[Rozz]

Basically people shouldn't keep animals for their own enjoyment because they cant actually provide the 5 freedoms

Or they keep pets in a manner that keeps them safe. Letting your animals roam off your property without any way to protect/monitor them is irresponsible. Besides, other people shouldn't have to clean up the messes the animal you bought for yourself made. You wouldn't let a dog roam free in the streets for a similar reason. It's for their own good and for the community.

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I like it when neighborhood cats come over. The worst they do is poop in the garden.

But not everyone does. Keeping your cats on your property also keeps them safe from home owners who would harm them if they got the chance.

[Cerilis]

Im glad the cat is okay. Wonder why she didnt leave that spot though.

[Creotor]

Actually a more comparable example would be letting human children roam free, since they have no way to properly protect themselves from dangers and it forces others to deal with them trespassing due to your negligence.

And surprisingly, that's considered child neglect and even abuse. So since we do enforce parents to properly care for their children and their actions/destruction of property, it would make sense to do the same to pet owners.

Or are you saying a cat has the consciousness and capabilities of a home owning adult human?

If you want to make yourself look like more of an ass, be my guest.

Cats certainly do have ways of protecting themselves and are pretty good at it, since they're one of the relatively few animals that thrive in urban setting.
Strange, the adult humans, what with their capabilities and all, routinely do more damage to the world than all the mammals in the world combined ever could... Certainly ought to keep those cats in, though, wouldn't want those buggers to destroy the world as we know it.

Know what else is considered child abuse? Keeping kids locked up.

[Rozz]

Most people are jerks who are happy to mass murder the local insect populations for their own comfort rather than consider the ecological impact they have

Which is why I mostly focus on the safety of the animal. Most people don't even know what a 'native species is', but they do understand shitty neighbors. You can't always trust others to not harm your pets and there is little to keep animals safe from bad people. At least you keep a bell on your cat , vaccinated her, desexed, and etc. That's more responsible than most, esp since some people stop feeding their cat because they assume "they eat from nature".

It's why I'm not against outdoor cats that are properly maintained. It's just that most people don't do that, which is why we have the issue in the first place.

[Pu3Ho]

That's not true and in some places this is illegal or considered abuse. A domestic animal can't survive in the wild, an urban "wild" setting is extremely unsafe, and free roaming domestics are harmful to native ecosystems. You also can't protect your cat from others if they decide to harm it and plenty of people do.

It's irresponsible and sets cats up for failure/harm. You have no idea how annoyed shelters, vets, and conservationist are by this attitude. I can only see an outdoor cat as acceptable if someone is able to safely confine them within their own property. If you can keep them safe from predators/cars/people and from damaging other environments you don't own, that's fine.

Edit: Before anyone responds w/ "source", here are sources about the issues of free-roaming cats and their relationship to ferals/other issues surrounding them. Also some tips on how to possibly deal with the problem:
1. https://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/ab...rnalCode=javma
2. https://www.avma.org/KB/Policies/Pag...eral-Cats.aspx
3. http://wildlife.org/wp-content/uploa...Feral-Cats.pdf

Stupid people make stupid rules every day, i don't rly care what is illegal and whatsnot somewhere, okay?(i don't even care what's illegal @local due to : they doesn't know = everything is fine). I literally had a cat which lived for 19 years, and tbh i think he spent more time outside in his lifespan than inside, indeed sometimes he fought with other cats for pussies/w.e and came home with a little bit bloody face/etc but that's a goddamn NATURAL way of things and simply how it should be.

[Nerovar]

Or they keep pets in a manner that keeps them safe. Letting your animals roam off your property without any way to protect/monitor them is irresponsible. Besides, other people shouldn't have to clean up the messes the animal you bought for yourself made. You wouldn't let a dog roam free in the streets for a similar reason. It's for their own good and for the community.

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But not everyone does. Keeping your cats on your property also keeps them safe from home owners who would harm them if they got the chance.

I swear, people in the US have such weird views on literally every topic. It's like they're from another planet.

If you live in a neighbourhood that's not suitable for cats... Don't get one. Confining them to a few m² seems incredibly cruel.

[Techno-Druid]

It would be better if we as a species died out if we wanted to preserve the environment.

I live in New Zealand so I've seen first hand the damage cats can do. My cat has a bell and mostly catches mice and the occasional thrush. Both of which are introduced species which harm endemic species. I didn't chose to adopt her either.

She was desexed, has her vaccinations, wears a bell. She was a stray and she gets very anxious and depressed when kept inside.

If she was catching endemic birds I'd be worried but she mostly just sleeps outside and explores. I've got more footage from her collar cam of people trying to pat her than I do of her hunting. Even then it's just mice and moths

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Most people are jerks who are happy to mass murder the local insect populations for their own comfort rather than consider the ecological impact they have

That's more reasonable. Speaking of New Zealand, have you heard of gene drives? There's current research into using CRISPR to edit invasive species' to where they can only produce one gender of offspring, effectively killing their population off.

Still a major work in progress though...I think they have it to 70% heritability now from 50%. We can already use it with 100% effectiveness for insects like mosquitoes but mammals are a little more complex.

[Rozz]

Cats certainly do have ways of protecting themselves and are pretty good at it, since they're one of the relatively few animals that thrive in urban setting.
Strange, the adult humans, what with their capabilities and all, routinely do more damage to the world than all the mammals in the world combined ever could... Certainly ought to keep those cats in, though, wouldn't want those buggers to destroy the world as we know it.

Know what else is considered child abuse? Keeping kids locked up.

Thrive? So you mean the thousands of stays that starve, are euthanized, spread disease, and compete for food with native species?
Protect themselves from cars, dogs, bad weather, and scuffles from other urban animals such as raccoons and possums?

Yeah those claws really helped Fluffy when she nearly froze to death.

Also you do realize that having a free roaming pet is part of that human damage to the world, right? They act as an invasive species that we introduced and neglectful pet owners support. Free roaming domestic animals and abandoned pets are a massive part of environmental deterioration that we caused. It's why releasing and even owning specific pets in many states is outright outlawed.

You clearly don't know what abuse is, but you love being destructively obtuse.

[Rozz]

I swear, people in the US have such weird views on literally every topic. It's like they're from another planet.

If you live in a neighbourhood that's not suitable for cats... Don't get one. Confining them to a few m² seems incredibly cruel.

I didn't say confine them to a small space, you're the one that assumed that. Don't forget that plenty of US people have massive spaces, because they live in rural areas. The cat is unlikely to even roam past that stretch of land to begin with. In my first post I said I wasn't against free roaming cats as long as you can monitor them or restrict them from damaging other people's property. That's fair since it's the case with any other owned animal.

I don't think animal regulation is a strange thing in most countries, since that's what I'm talking about. I critique the utter dismissal for the need for it.

[Rozz]

Stupid people make stupid rules every day, i don't rly care what is illegal and whatsnot somewhere, okay?(i don't even care what's illegal @local due to : they doesn't know = everything is fine). I literally had a cat which lived for 19 years, and tbh i think he spent more time outside in his lifespan than inside, indeed sometimes he fought with other cats for pussies/w.e and came home with a little bit bloody face/etc but that's a goddamn NATURAL way of things and simply how it should be.

And that's the pet owner you chose to be.

But I'll trust professional opinions, statistics, and peer reviewed journal databases instead thanks.