The XP potion drama is a byproduct of Blizzard's inability to communicate properly

[Jazzhands]

I've never exploited in my life. I don't even use cheat codes in single player games. I get where you're coming from, and don't entirely disagree. I don't feel sorry for cheaters caught cheating. Oh well.

My only point is that i've been playing MMO's since they were just MUDs, and even on MUDs they would give out global messages when you log in that "X mechanic is broken, and until it can be fixed anyone caught using it will be punished".

Simple things like that. Blizz themselves have taken this stance and warned people not to abuse an exploit before, or patched it out immediately.

The worst thing they can do is silence, because it sends out no message at all when all they had to do was tweet back "We are aware of the exploit, and anyone using it will be banned". It isn't hard.

It isn't Blizzard's banhammer here that's the problem, it's their lack of communication that leaves oh so much to be desired. I legit have seen gaming companies with a dozen employee's handle these type of issues better, faster, and cleaner.

This was just a poor showing of management and communication by Blizzard any way you wanna cut it. At the very least, they should've disabled the item outright until fixed. At the worst, they should've said "We're aware of it and anyone abusing it will be punished and all xp rolled back". to stop more from jumping on. It's that simple.

It didn't have to ever get to this point, was my only point. Blizz themselves screwed the pooch on this one.

Blizzard talking about it would simply create more buzz and more bans. People were clearly dubious about it, hence they had to ask Blizzard. If you have to ask Blizzard if something is an exploit, you should play it on the safe side and avoid it until there's word of it.

Often times things like this are kind of grey, and in that case I agree with you, announcements and communication are great. But there was no grey here. If you have to go to twitter to ask Blizzard if it's ok, it's likely an exploit. And if it isn't, you'll likely get a response fairly quickly, as it's good for Blizzard to let the community know when something that looks like it might be an exploit isn't. But spreading the word about an actual exploit they may not be ready to fix is a bad idea, as it creates more work for them and results in more bans.

[justandulas]

Ah so you think cheating gives unfair advantage, so you have to cheat as well?
Sure. I mean, you could always download a farmer bot and run that as well.

Or you could just play the game without cheating.

You're in control of this thing.

The correct action with bugs is the two-step process I posted earlier.

- - - Updated - - -



As a developer of a MUD since -92 (it's still running!) I can tell you, you do that if you can. You don't always catch things fast enough. Sometimes exploits and cheats have been brewing for a while before you (and IMP) get to know about them. Sometimes fixing old spaghetti code takes a day or two (things have to be tested as well).

And sometimes, as a result you end up nuking and banning a bunch of characters. Has happened more than once to me. And for Blizzard - it's a huge company running heavy ITIL processes. Things take time to bubble up from bug reports to actual tickets for developers.

That’s actually my point tho my man... is that Blizz was made aware of it for days. They could’ve handled it better, faster, and without so many casualties that most only occurred because Blizz kept their head in the sand.

If you were made aware of an exploit in your MUD, that was probably a 1/10 in terms of emergency to your game, would you just ignore it for days even when point blank asked a hundred times? And then go on twitter to mock those you banned (lore)

Of course not! That’s my entire point. They were made aware of it and had every necessary tool and manpower needed to fix it within minutes or at least warn people “hey I’m aware of it don’t abuse it or be banned”

[Kromus!]

Everybody has a moral compass. Blizzard also have a testing team. Blizzard are accountable for letting it happen, and not responding correctly, agreed, but I don't accept any valid reason for you thinking you're not responsible for this, and thinking it was okay, and all things considered, the bans are very soft and almost pointless. You're both at fault. Accept it, move on.

[Sorrior]

I mean it would have happened in any game.

You knew perfectly well what it was and feigning otherwise doesn't work lol.

Actually no it wouldn’t. In ffxiv when a leveling exploit was found the devs outright said our bad and that nobody would be banned for it..though they did ask people not to use it. Some devs communicate and owe up to there mistakes

[Zequill]

Are we reaching this really high level of autism because Preach got ban too? "Innocent player that didn't know" yeah right...

[justandulas]

Everybody has a moral compass. Blizzard also have a testing team. Blizzard are accountable for letting it happen, and not responding correctly, agreed, but I don't accept any valid reason for you thinking you're not responsible for this, and thinking it was okay, and all things considered, the bans are very soft and almost pointless. You're both at fault. Accept it, move on.

Yup that’s what I’ve been saying. It’s possible for the exploiters to be guilty, and for Blizz silence and incompetence to exaserbate the issue

[Jazzhands]

You still don't get it. We're not in control, because we don't get to decide what gets banned and what doesn't. This isn't direct democracy. It's Blizzard's game, and they can set bans as they like. So you can be principled at a potential disadvantage, or not care and risk the consequences. What I'm after is to know whats allowed as early as possible, so as to minimise the difference between the principled and those who take the risk in situations where the risk pays off.

You're in control of your own actions. If something is so suspicious that people are bombarding Blizzard on twitter, then just don't risk it, because it might be an exploit. Worst come to worst, you might have had to wait a few days to stack the potion. Oh no. But you know as well as I that if it was OK, Blizzard would have said so right away, because it's in their best interest to inform the community when something isn't an exploit.

Also remember that Blizzard is cutting costs. More buzz = more bans = more work. Silence was a good option, because that SHOULD have been a big fat NO to anyone with common sense, and it didn't create more buzz.

[justandulas]

We're in perfect control. Just play the game. Report bugs. Don't exploit clearly intended functionality to your advantage.
You'll be fine.

It really is not harder that that.

Software houses don't generally go out and tell people about potential exploits before they have fix or mitigating workaround available. It's very rare and generally only happens with things like the recent CPU exploits (Spectre/Meltdown). The world you describe doesn't really exist in commercially developed software.

Software companies, no, but game companies always do. Communication is everything for a game company, and this all could’ve been avoided with a simple tweet “we are aware of it but anyone abusing it will be banned”

[Jazzhands]

Software companies, no, but game companies always do. Communication is everything for a game company, and this all could’ve been avoided with a simple tweet “we are aware of it but anyone abusing it will be banned”

This could have been avoided if people used common sense and didn't exploit an obvious exploit. People will do things regardless of the consequences sometimes, especially if it's to avoid something they don't enjoy, like leveling, any word from Blizzard would have turned this into a wildfire and gotten significantly more people banned.

Also, you know games are considered Software right?

[Talby]

You didn't need to jump through any kind of awkward hoops to get that bonus exp. Do you not see the difference between killing a mob and delibateraly splitting items in awkward way to make them behave differently?

There was literally zero way for a low level to get into deepholm besides being summoned by a party, and for vale before it got fixed you had to get summoned/take a portal and have someone who wasn't phased to the mobs that didn't have their exp squished. You also had to be put in specific spots in order for the mobs to not fucking anal you while you soaked.

But yeah, putting potions in separate bags clearly required a lot more effort

[rrayy]

A simple "We disabled xp potion until we can solve the problem" would've been 100% better than just ignoring it as some innocent players get caught in the ban wave.

NBobldy that was caught in this ban weave was innocent.

You exploited and you got banned. Own it. Stop blaming Blizzard for your decision to game the system.

[klogaroth]

We're in perfect control. Just play the game. Report bugs. Don't exploit clearly intended functionality to your advantage.
You'll be fine.

It really is not harder that that.

Software houses don't generally go out and tell people about potential exploits before they have fix or mitigating workaround available. It's very rare and generally only happens with things like the recent CPU exploits (Spectre/Meltdown). The world you describe doesn't really exist in commercially developed software.

Sure, if the game was a single player game.

But it's not. It's a game with other people, with an economy, with competition. A game where people utilise unintended interactions in Blizzard streamed competitions. You control your own actions, but you don't control those of people you're competing with, and you don't control the consequences they face.

[justandulas]

NBobldy that was caught in this ban weave was innocent.

You exploited and you got banned. Own it. Stop blaming Blizzard for your decision to game the system.

Again, I didn’t exploit and never will. Just pointing out that even amateur MUD developers with teams of 1-2 handle this kinda issue better

Contrary to what you think, acknowledging it wouldn’t have created a flood of people doing it but the opposite. If they had a big message from Blizz that “do this and be banned” nobody would’ve. Simple as that.

Not faulting Blizz because it made it into the game (testing?) but I will fault their communication and response time. It was pitiful

[xpose]

Incompetence on both the player base and blizzard. They knew about it for multiple days and left it up with no communication. Something like that would require immediate disabling of the potion until a hotfix is in place but they didn't want to do that nor did they want to communicate about the issue.

I don't want to hear about excuses of low prio vs high prio on incoming tickets. Bannable exploits should always be addressed as a high prio at least until the function is disabled then you can go back to your normal queue.

[Jazzhands]

Incompetence on both the player base and blizzard. They knew about it for multiple days and left it up with no communication. Something like that would require immediate disabling of the potion until a hotfix is in place but they didn't want to do that nor did they want to communicate about the issue.

I don't want to hear about excuses of low prio vs high prio on incoming tickets. Bannable exploits should always be addressed as a high prio at least until the function is disabled then you can go back to your normal queue.

You agree in the ToS to not use exploits, it's not Blizzard's job to hold your hand and make sure you follow it, especially when it comes to things that are obviously broken. I don't know how anyone can look at this bug and think it was intentional, it'd be really different if there was a chance of it being clever use of game mechanics, but there really wasn't. Stackable potions have always functioned in a specific manner, you had to do something very specific that goes against how they've always worked.

At the end of the day, you agree to follow the ToS, and if there's a grey area, then play it safe or risk the consequences, Blizzard will respond in one way or another, maybe have a little patience. I know every OMG HATES LEVELING AAAAAAAAHHH but would it have been that bad to wait a few days to hear a response?

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Blizzard talking about it would simply create more buzz and more bans. People were clearly dubious about it, hence they had to ask Blizzard. If you have to ask Blizzard if something is an exploit, you should play it on the safe side and avoid it until there's word of it.

Often times things like this are kind of grey, and in that case I agree with you, announcements and communication are great. But there was no grey here. If you have to go to twitter to ask Blizzard if it's ok, it's likely an exploit. And if it isn't, you'll likely get a response fairly quickly, as it's good for Blizzard to let the community know when something that looks like it might be an exploit isn't. But spreading the word about an actual exploit they may not be ready to fix is a bad idea, as it creates more work for them and results in more bans.

That's the problem though. Silence doesn't work in today's age because the forums and twitter was simply coated in it for a couple days. Official Blizzard forums and twitters mind you even if it isn't coming from them. Back in 2005 you could probably just not say anything and it would be fixed by the time it got around. A handful of bans go out on each server and that is that. But in 2019 a whole lot of people say those posts and tweets. Then days went by. Still radio silence. Was it going to be another cauldron bug situation where you sit around and don't jump on board with it and are REWARDED for abusing the bug by having unlimited cauldrons with no punishment and thus you are at a massive disadvantage or do you see nothing being done for a couple days and level. I mean the cauldron thing wrecked server economics, effected other players, and in general was a lot worse than people leveling toons. But one was treated with death row and the other was totally ignored.

[FeedsOnDevTears]

Anyone who thinks that a bug that allowed potions to stack to upwards of 700% bonus exp "may be working as intended" is either lying or stupid.

"But they could have communicated better!" Maybe, but don't kid yourself into thinking that anyone seriously thought this bug/exploit was okay to use.

I can use a combination of speed, jumps, and engineering to cross WSG or TP with the flag in a tiny fraction of the time it normally takes to run. Mages in classic could use the right setup of procs and cooldowns to one-shot people. People have been soloing max-level content with clever play for the length of the game. Twinks can chain stunlock to disgusting levels with the right combo of items and characters.

If you can make the game do it without actually hacking anything, and Blizzard hasn't said anything, banning people is utterly uncalled for. Blizz is just effing lazy, and bad at their jobs.

[klogaroth]

As I said, the choice is yours. You see similar reasoning everytime there's a bot banning wave.

You also see it when there isn't a ban wave. It's just fewer people turn up to threads about people not getting banned. There's no "I told you so's" when there aren't any bans for something.

[Jazzhands]

That's the problem though. Silence doesn't work in today's age because the forums and twitter was simply coated in it for a couple days. Official Blizzard forums and twitters mind you even if it isn't coming from them. Back in 2005 you could probably just not say anything and it would be fixed by the time it got around. A handful of bans go out on each server and that is that. But in 2019 a whole lot of people say those posts and tweets. Then days went by. Still radio silence. Was it going to be another cauldron bug situation where you sit around and don't jump on board with it and are REWARDED for abusing the bug by having unlimited cauldrons with no punishment and thus you are at a massive disadvantage or do you see nothing being done for a couple days and level. I mean the cauldron thing wrecked server economics, effected other players, and in general was a lot worse than people leveling toons. But one was treated with death row and the other was totally ignored.

If you think it might be an exploit, you shouldn't use it, it's that simple. When you ask if you can do something, and don't get a response, do you take that as a yes? No. You don't. Because it isn't. It's not a yes or no. You wait for an answer, or risk it and face the consequences. Everyone who saw the posts saw people asking if something was OK, meaning they ALL had to be thinking "is this an exploit or not?" and actively chose to use it. You agree in the ToS not to use bugs to exploit, so when something might be an exploit you don't do it until you know for sure, Blizzard WILL respond, just not as fast as you may want, having to wait a few days while they work out kinks is not the end of the world, or an excuse to use it. Blizzard could have done all sorts of things, but at the end of the day they shouldn't have to, because we all agree'd not to exploit, and this was so obviously an exploit and we all know it.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

If you think it might be an exploit, you shouldn't use it, it's that simple. When you ask if you can do something, and don't get a response, do you take that as a yes? No. You don't. Because it isn't. It's not a yes or no. You wait for an answer, or risk it and face the consequences. Everyone who saw the posts saw people asking if something was OK, meaning they ALL had to be thinking "is this an exploit or not?" and actively chose to use it. You agree in the ToS not to use bugs to exploit, so when something might be an exploit you don't do it until you know for sure, Blizzard WILL respond, having to wait a few days while they work out kinks is not the end of the world, or an excuse to use it. Blizzard could have done all sorts of things, but at the end of the day they shouldn't have to, because we all agree'd not to exploit, and this was so obviously an exploit and we all know it.

*I* don't and I am not banned.

I just look at taking a proactive choice is better than a reactive one. Mostly because I think the game is at its best with more players in it and not fewer. If 20 seconds on twitter makes fewer players banned than not then I feel that makes for a better game. No shit it is against TOS. I don't see a lot of people really debating that. Most people that got the ban accept it as much. Which pretty much moves the debate past is it right or wrong, because it is wrong. Where the debate lands is what could have been done to minimize the damage instead letting the fire spread out of control.