In America, are both sides the same?

[zenkai]

I see this often said by centrists. Are they honestly really wrong though? The far right has their extremists (alt-right) and the far left has theirs (alt-left). Both of them have their racist movements that are about inciting violence (BLM vs White Supremacists). And both have their outlets of fake news (Fox News vs CNN). I wouldn't call myself necessarily right wing (I prefer being a Skeptic), but when you look at the thousands of videos of violence against people for simply wearing red hats it's starting to become disingenuous to say that only the right wing calls for violence.

Hell, it's even difficult to call the left wing 'the party of science' since they support ridiculous notions that there are thousands of genders for example. If anything, the left seems to be creating further division disguised as fighting for equality.

They're the same as both only care about their corporate donors.

[Gestopft]

They're the same as both only care about their corporate donors.

However, the grassroots campaign to get money out of politics is only on one side.

[Kraenen]

You seem to have failed to understand what I said.

America is a very right country democrats are by and large right of center

Republicans are ridiculously to the right and in the scope of the world republicans are by and large all extremist

Would you describe most of the world (Africa, ME, Asia) as socially and economically left-wing? Or are you just referring to particular scandinavian countries and one or two south american ones?

[Themius]

Would you describe most of the world (Africa, ME, Asia) as socially and economically left-wing? Or are you just referring to particular scandinavian countries and one or two south american ones?

I'm referring to most of the developed world.

[Shadowferal]

Well, at one point a few years ago I would have said both sides are the same.
But when one side lets CRAZY running roughshod...I now appreciate "status quo" a bit better.

Still, if nothing else, we see just how vile the one side has truly become when it becomes "party over country."

[Deletedaccount1]

I'm referring to most of the developed world.

America is less right-wing than the developed countries of East Asia and is similarly right-wing to the other developed "immigrant societies" like the Oceanic countries, Israel, and Chile. It is really only more right-wing than most European countries.

[Themius]

America is less right-wing than the developed countries of East Asia and is similarly right-wing to the other developed "immigrant societies" like the Oceanic countries, Israel, and Chile. It is really only more right-wing than most European countries.

Most of Europe is who America is most culturally similar to, or our neighbours to the north.

[Kraenen]

I'm referring to most of the developed world.

Why do you make the distinction?

[Saucexorzski]

Most of Europe is who America is most culturally similar to, or our neighbours to the north.

pretty sure you just insulted like all those countries by saying they are similar to the US.

[Themius]

pretty sure you just insulted like all those countries by saying they are similar to the US.

Probably, but culturally we're close America just kind of took a very hard left turn.

[Shadowferal]

"Hard left?"
Trump doesn't lean left at all.

[Saucexorzski]

"Hard left?"
Trump doesn't lean left at all.

shrunk, shriveled, and slightly to the left? no?

[Coffeh]

At the Federal level, yes. They scream at each other for the cameras, and then go out to dinner together and laugh at how stupid the public is.

[jakeic]

I will say this.

There are policies on the right I support, and policies on the left I support. I vote on issues and politicians who represent my values. The difference here being that the Left wing activists will yell in my face, throw shit at me, and call me a gender/race traitor (I'm half Native American and half Irish female) While right wing activists will sit down and ask me to have a beer with them.

I vote with who will represent things I want for the country, aka Lowering Pollution, Protecting Free Speech, etc

No one side represents the values I hold dear so I vote based on who is closest to those values. Sometimes its a Democrat, sometimes its a Republican.

I shared my views on twitter and seriously a few left wing extremists told me that they hoped I get raped and left for dead for exposing such HEINOUS opinions that maybe instead of basing Affirmative action based on Skin color to instead base it upon Class and income. The poor and disenfranchised are who we should be helping to get back on their feet.

But despite all the shit I gotten over the years, I am still mostly left wing on my views on things. I just happen to hold some conservative views as well. I am not 100% in 1 camp or the other, but apparently that makes me a terrible person.

This is some of the dumbest fan fiction I’ve read, it’s probably worth its weight in turnips.

[Slant]

I see this often said by centrists. Are they honestly really wrong though? The far right has their extremists (alt-right) and the far left has theirs (alt-left). Both of them have their racist movements that are about inciting violence (BLM vs White Supremacists). And both have their outlets of fake news (Fox News vs CNN). I wouldn't call myself necessarily right wing (I prefer being a Skeptic), but when you look at the thousands of videos of violence against people for simply wearing red hats it's starting to become disingenuous to say that only the right wing calls for violence.

Hell, it's even difficult to call the left wing 'the party of science' since they support ridiculous notions that there are thousands of genders for example. If anything, the left seems to be creating further division disguised as fighting for equality.

Since there is no "other side" and both are firmly on the right wing, not sure wtf you're talking about.

[Daelak]

I see this often said by centrists. Are they honestly really wrong though? The far right has their extremists (alt-right) and the far left has theirs (alt-left). Both of them have their racist movements that are about inciting violence (BLM vs White Supremacists). And both have their outlets of fake news (Fox News vs CNN). I wouldn't call myself necessarily right wing (I prefer being a Skeptic), but when you look at the thousands of videos of violence against people for simply wearing red hats it's starting to become disingenuous to say that only the right wing calls for violence.

Hell, it's even difficult to call the left wing 'the party of science' since they support ridiculous notions that there are thousands of genders for example. If anything, the left seems to be creating further division disguised as fighting for equality.

No, the right wing in the US has had a deleterious effect on the quality of life for citizens in this country since before its founding. They have been on the wrong side of history in literally every inflection point when it comes to human rights and equal protection under the law. Subversive in nature, conservative ideology deludes its followers with fake science, fake economics, and a constant mythologizing of the past, and whitewash the history of their past leaders/politicians/movements to create a false sense of duality between their ideology and the real world.

[Grapemask]

It's telling that virtually all people who say "both sides are the same" tend to lean right. Projection is a powerful thing.

[Korlok]

It's telling that virtually all people who say "both sides are the same" tend to lean right.

There are plenty of 'independents' that also claim this, but then go on to only defend the right leaning ideology, and then attack the left leaning one.
I'm not sure that this is a point in and of itself, but it definitely does say something....

[Cthulhu 2020]

I've very strongly noticed that people who think both sides are the same fall into one of a few categories:

1. Embarrassed Republicans who know their party has gone to shit and are trying to compensate for their party's downfall by crying that Democrats are "just the same" level of corruption, bad policy, etc.

2. People who almost never follow politics. Their lives generally suck and they work so hard that they can't commit any energy to actually educating themselves on the politics of the country. They feel that in general, no matter who is in charge, they still get financially fucked over. They're partially right, in that no matter who is in charge, they get fucked over, but that's mostly because Democrats have never held enough power to pass veto proof majority legislation that would help the working poor who spend 60-80 hours a week on the work floor. Republicans always block legislation for fair pay even when Dems are "in power".

3. People who are single issue voters, where that single issue is something that both parties tend to agree on. These people feel so strongly about this one issue that they're hung up on, that they see all other differences as inconsequential, even though they're probably important to a lot of people. On this forum, it's usually US foreign policy and our intervention in foreign politics and wars that people despise. Republicans have run a far more interventionist platform than Dems, but Dems still operate a strong "forward presence" too, just not as aggressive.

So when people say both parties are the same (you can look at past threads and posts and find this if you want) I just tell them to check the voting records of congress and the senate. Nobody ever does, because if they were to check the voting records, they would see that Dems and Repubs are in fact, VERY different.

Instead of focusing on some nebulous personalities on either side that we may approve or disapprove of why not just look at the voting records.

House Vote for Net Neutrality 2011

For/ Against
Rep 2/ 234
Dem 177/ 6

Senate Vote for Net Neutrality 2011

For/ Against
Rep 0/ 46
Dem 52/ 0

Money in Elections and Voting

Campaign Finance Disclosure Requirements

For/ Against
Rep 0/ 39
Dem 59/ 0

DISCLOSE Act

For Against
Rep 0/ 45
Dem 53/ 0

Backup Paper Ballots - Voting Record

For/ Against
Rep 20/ 170
Dem 228/ 0

Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act

For/ Against
Rep 8/ 38
Dem 51/ 3

Sets reasonable limits on the raising and spending of money by electoral candidates to influence elections (Reverse Citizens United)

For/ Against
Rep 0/ 42
Dem 54/ 0


The Economy/Jobs

Limits Interest Rates for Certain Federal Student Loans

For/ Against
Rep 0/ 46
Dem 46/ 6

Student Loan Affordability Act

For/ Against
Rep 0/ 51
Dem 45/ 1

Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Funding Amendment

For/ Against
Rep 1/ 41
Dem 54/ 0

End the Bureau of Consumer Financial Protection

For/ Against
Rep 39/ 1
Dem 1/ 54

Kill Credit Default Swap Regulations

For/ Against
Rep 38/ 2
Dem 18/ 36

Revokes tax credits for businesses that move jobs overseas

For/ Against
Rep 10/ 32
Dem 53/ 1

Disapproval of President's Authority to Raise the Debt Limit

For/ Against
Rep 233/ 1
Dem 6/ 175

Disapproval of President's Authority to Raise the Debt Limit

For/ Against
Rep 42/ 1
Dem 2/ 51

Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act

For/ Against
Rep 3/ 173
Dem 247/ 4

Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act

For/ Against
Rep 4/ 36
Dem 57/ 0

Dodd Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Bureau Act

For/ Against
Rep 4/ 39
Dem 55/ 2

American Jobs Act of 2011 - $50 billion for infrastructure projects

For/ Against
Rep 0/ 48
Dem 50/ 2

Emergency Unemployment Compensation Extension

For/ Against
Rep 1/ 44
Dem 54/ 1

Reduces Funding for Food Stamps

For/ Against
Rep 33/ 13
Dem 0/ 52

Minimum Wage Fairness Act

For/ Against
Rep 1/ 41
Dem 53/ 1

Paycheck Fairness Act

For/ Against
Rep 0/ 40
Dem 58/ 1

"War on Terror"

Time Between Troop Deployments

For/ Against
Rep 6/ 43
Dem 50/ 1

Habeas Corpus for Detainees of the United States

For/ Against
Rep 5/ 42
Dem 50/ 0

Habeas Review Amendment

For/ Against
Rep 3/ 50
Dem 45/ 1

Prohibits Detention of U.S. Citizens Without Trial

For/ Against
Rep 5/ 42
Dem 39/ 12

Authorizes Further Detention After Trial During Wartime

For/ Against
Rep 38/ 2
Dem 9/ 49

Prohibits Prosecution of Enemy Combatants in Civilian Courts

For/ Against
Rep 46/ 2
Dem 1/ 49

Repeal Indefinite Military Detention

For/ Against
Rep 15/ 214
Dem 176/ 16

Oversight of CIA Interrogation and Detention Amendment

For/ Against
Rep 1/ 52
Dem 45/ 1

Patriot Act Reauthorization

For/ Against
Rep 196/ 31
Dem 54/ 122

FISA Act Reauthorization of 2008

For/ Against
Rep 188/ 1
Dem 105/ 128

FISA Reauthorization of 2012

For/ Against
Rep 227/ 7
Dem 74/ 111

House Vote to Close the Guantanamo Prison

For/ Against
Rep 2/ 228
Dem 172/ 21

Senate Vote to Close the Guantanamo Prison

For/ Against
Rep 3/ 32
Dem 52/ 3

Prohibits the Use of Funds for the Transfer or Release of Individuals Detained at Guantanamo

For/ Against
Rep 44/ 0
Dem 9/ 41

Oversight of CIA Interrogation and Detention

For/ Against
Rep 1/ 52
Dem 45/ 1

Civil Rights

Same Sex Marriage Resolution 2006

For/ Against
Rep 6/ 47
Dem 42/ 2

Employment Non-Discrimination Act of 2013

For/ Against
Rep 1/ 41
Dem 54/ 0

Exempts Religiously Affiliated Employers from the Prohibition on Employment Discrimination Based on Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity

For/ Against
Rep 41/ 3
Dem 2/ 52

Family Planning

Teen Pregnancy Education Amendment

For/ Against
Rep 4/ 50
Dem 44/ 1

Family Planning and Teen Pregnancy Prevention

For/ Against
Rep 3/ 51
Dem 44/ 1

Protect Women's Health From Corporate Interference Act The 'anti-Hobby Lobby' bill.

For/ Against
Rep 3/ 42
Dem 53/ 1

Environment

Stop "the War on Coal" Act of 2012

For/ Against
Rep 214/ 13
Dem 19/ 162

EPA Science Advisory Board Reform Act of 2013

For/ Against
Rep 225/ 1
Dem 4/ 190

Prohibit the Social Cost of Carbon in Agency Determinations

For/ Against
Rep 218/ 2
Dem 4/ 186

Misc

Prohibit the Use of Funds to Carry Out the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

For/ Against
Rep 45/ 0
Dem 0/ 52

Prohibiting Federal Funding of National Public Radio

For/ Against
Rep 228/ 7
Dem 0/ 185

Allow employers to penalize employees that don't submit genetic testing for health insurance (Committee vote)

For/ Against
Rep 22/ 0
Dem 0/ 17


No. Both sides are not the same. They have wildly different priorities.

[Kellhound]

Its a question of degree.

Does the right have crazies? Yes.
Does the left have crazies? Yes.

The right simply has FAR MORE terrible people and groups. Their politicians are also far more dishonest.

Saying they're the same is like saying 1 = 10. It either shows a clear ignorance of the current political climate, or a blatant dishonesty and hypocrisy, to say they are the same.

1 may not equal 10, but 2 does equal 10. Much like politics, it depends on how you look at it.